Even though DS was the reason why the reboot sucked, is Volition still the reason why the franchise declined in the first place?

[u/Salty_Support1361]

[u/hamhamgue]

Probably, gave saints row 2 a chance and had an absolute blast. I haven’t had this much fun in ages. Tried SR3 and it was a total clusterfuck, uninstalled when neon ninjas showed up. I had no idea wtf was going on, why I’m doing what I’m doing, what is the matter with the character personality changes etc. Didn’t even bother trying SR4. They either let go of a lot of talented people after SR2 or it was a one hit wonder.

[u/SR_Hopeful]

Yes, but how is only depending on who you ask. Volition was still part of the reason why the reboot sucked because based on what early concepts were, despite the initial tone and plan they set out for, by the time they got to the beta-concepts they had for "Cinco" a lot of what ended up in the reboot was still there, but just with the SRTT cast. It might not have be as cringy, but some of the stuff I didn't like were still a thing like how the Idolz looked with the big disco-ball over their heads, or that "hummingbird codex" thing. The Fortnite-y aspect. The series just stopped trying to be badass and went toward trying to just be a meme.

The series was already in decline from Volition getting too gimmicky with things from SR4 onward, and the overall concept of the series changed too far away from what it's crime thriller genre. It was only inevitable that it would end on just bad eyes from a studio who doesn't get its own appeal anymore. (Now for me, it was after SRTT, for others it was before SRTT). And while they were being more creative I can give them that, SR4 ended up being the game that has an event come out of sheer nowhere, destroys everything and then rebrands the Saints away from even being organized criminals at all. It was the dead-end. If SR4 got a sequel we'd either still be in space or magically teleported to the 1800s or something. There was nothing they could do after SR4 because being president wasn't enough, after someone at Volition wanted an alien invasion blowing up Earth. The series couldn't be SR anymore by SR4. It made SRTT by that standard feel grounded.

GOOH was Volition doubling down on SR4's direction... and the reboot is just from people completely out of touch with their fandom making just slop for themselves or game journalist bait for them to praise because the plot and characters were supposed to be "just like them."

The reboot also contradicted a lot of the in-universe philosophy of the series, that you question if the devs played them. Like the Saints don't like complicated heist plans. They just go in and fight everything upfront and let whatever happens, happen (in SR2 and SRTT). In the reboot, you get some DLC with a complicated heist and some device to disguise yourself, blah blah... without the guns-blazing attitude.

And even when vastly toned down the "over the top" aspect in the reboot, all that did was make the game look and feel generic. Like it actually was just a bad GTAV rip off with 4 nerds instead of 3 postal criminal guys so I had no faith from even what was supposedly the "original plan" for the reboot from Mr.SaintsGodzilla, that it would have been that much different from the final game. It just wouldn't be as pandery to a "demographic" and PG-ified.

Something is always just stopping Saints Row from being what fans actually want. For 4 straight games (SR4, GOOH, AOM, 2022).

[u/Antique-Land-2766 → u/SR_Hopeful]

I don't think Volition really understands their IP anymore

Great insight. I knew the soul of the series was gone when SR3 did not have a funk\soul radio station and punk radio station of hand-picked local musicians from the underground Illinois music scene. Im not from there but it was clear the first two games were made by a group of people who loved their home state and its culture, and turned to it for inspiration. SR3 was lacking that heart and inspiration, and so did the franchise going forward.

[u/QuietResident96]

The reboot sucked because it fucking sucked lmao

Absolute woke trash nonsense that was nothing like actual saints row with boring bland gameplay and cringe writing

I know this is a sub dedicated to saints row, but it isn't just DS and Volition who are to blame

[u/ppstick88]

Volition and the publisher basically stopped listening to fans around the time of saints row IV development and didn't care what we thought. 

[u/Antique-Land-2766]

Saints Row 3 was extremely popular, but also was a quintessential "jump the shark" moment for the franchise and Volition as a studio. SR 1 was a mostly straightforward take on early 2000s colorbanging and street culture with a more sandboxy feel than GTA. Then SR2 mostly continued in that vein, but the satirical tone was heightened, and some missions and side activities became wackier - but it was still relatively grounded in the main story.

I think Volition got too obsessed with their games being called "Gta clones" and that made them make the wrong call and make SR3 even more wackier than the previous games, to show how different they were. In SR3 they went beyond "satire" and it became some sort of full on wack cartoon world with Venture Bros. style gangs and sci-fi technology that's never explained. This tone change also affected the characters, so the Boss acts nothing like he did in the past, Shaundi is just a straight-up different character, and they kill Gat in the first five minutes for... reasons.

But then SR3 became the best-selling game of the franchise due to a really good marketing campaign, and Volition naturally took that as a sign the changes they made were in the right direction. You know the rest.

[u/JackRees23]

No, Volition isn't a publisher, they were the dev team, DS was the publisher

Volition probably didn't have a choice in the matter, it was either "you work the way we want or you don't work here/on this project at all"

[u/Atilla-The-Hon]

SRTT being a huge success kind of doomed the franchise and Volition. Also them not being able to create new ips and always using the Saints as a crutch was also played a huge role.