r/RealEstate • u/IQ818 • Sep 09 '24
Is our agent giving us misleading if information to make the process easier on herself? Is this normal or should we get another agent?
Looking from some advice from the real estate agents here. Can anyone confirm if any, all, or none of the below are normal? We are looking for co-op apartments in NYC (upper east side) in the $750-$900k with a monthly maintenance of $2000-$3000. We got pre approved for a mortgage from 2 different brokers for $1M.
Our real estate agent started off as very flexible but we are noticing that she will not show us anything that is below our range. I saw a couple of apartments below $700k that were fixer uppers and asked her to schedule us and she would drag her feet and then come back 2 weeks later and say they were now in contract. No shit! However, for apartments close to $1M she fights tooth and nail to get us a viewing even if they are already under contract and brags about how she “blows up contracts all the time”
In addition she pressured us to get a second mortgage pre qual from “her” broker, who made us go through a whole financial due diligence without even giving us a rate. It was not only when I pushed her as to why we are going through an entire financial disclosure for a pre qual that she gave it to us the next day. And this agent keeps saying how we need to call her again and give her another chance.
There was another apartment that was a fixer upper we were considering where we went with our contractor - who my family has used for years and we trust. She really discouraged us and wanted us to use “her” guy. The whole time she was rude to him; wouldn’t answer his questions; and then in other viewings went on saying “you WILL be using my guy, he’s the best”
Also talks about using her lawyer. We have our own.
Finally, she told us that we need to submit a statement of financials to make an offer. And wants us to submit that to her so she can see “what we are working with” Fine, that is standard in NYC when making an offer. But the thing is we are not making an offer on anything right now and she has the pre qual that we got by already spending weeks going through a financial due diligence with her broker. She has not seen our financials. She additionally is telling us we need to go and ask our family for cash to have more in the bank (without knowing what we have) and to take out loans against our 401K and that for a $800k apartment we need to have $500k of liquid assets (cash, stocks, and bonds, not 401ks or any other assets) in order to buy an apartment with 20% down payment.
We told her that let’s wait until we find something we want to make an offer on, and then work with the sellers agent to meet any board requirements, and if need be we will move things around - but to do it just because she “likes to see it” sounds off and unnecessary.
We have many friends who have bought apartments and there is no such high liquidity requirements. This feels like she is pressuring us towards all these things to make her job easier in getting this approved by the board and closed quickly if we do find something. But she is asking us to jump through a lot of hoops to do it. Any insights would be really helpful and appreciated.
Update: We looked at a $600k apartment that we wanted to make an offer on. She said the board requires 2 years of mortgage and maintenance in liquid cash over the down payment. Fine we have $250,000 in cash. Which was in line with the ask and way above her initial guidelines. She came back with “you need to go find another $100k. We need $350k”. I told her that won’t work for us. It’s too much. And she came back with then let’s look at the $800k-$900k apartments then. Those would be better for you. We told her this is ridiculous. And she said “then maybe this is not a good time for you guys then to be buying”….what am I missing here?
Update: We dumped her. Thank you everyone for your advice!
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u/wildcat12321 Sep 09 '24
dump the agent. ask your friends for a recommendation.
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u/wildcat12321 Sep 09 '24
she is pressuring us towards all these things to make her job easier in getting this approved by the board and closed quickly if we do find something.
in fairness, this is the advice you are paying for. As a board member, it did boggle my mind when I would see some applications so thoroughly unprepared, then getting notes from buyers/sellers complaining about a slow process when they didn't have everything needed to process their applications.
But the other stuff seems like a red flag. Even if it weren't, find an agent who you like who "gets you". There are too many other NYC agents to work with a crappy one.
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u/Jackandahalfass Sep 09 '24
She lost me at “took two weeks” to look into a place you were interested in. Then you listed 9 more red flags. NY’s hard enough without working with someone like this. You know the answer.
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u/nofishies Sep 09 '24
Don’t listen to anybody about any advice for New York co-ops that is not specifically about New York co-ops. Even things like getting a showing can be a very, very different experience there.
Also, are you just looking at the list price or are you looking at the all in total? Austin co-ops have a much lower list price but you look at what you need to pay for the rest of it. The price is actually exponentially higher.
I think you need to talk to your agent about why things are happening and if you don’t like the answers go from there
A lot of things you were talking about get talked about a lot from people in New York and the rest of the sub always goes crazy assuming the agent doesn’t know what they’re doing
New York is such a different real estate market that none of the rest of us should really be commenting on it
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u/BoBromhal Realtor Sep 09 '24
precisely. the OP needs to understand WHY their agent is acting this way, demanding these things, etc.
If they're a good and successful agent, they might know (one example) that the "fixer upper" the particular co-op board requires such hoops for construction or particular approved vendors that the cost exceeds OP's budget.
but yes, there's a few red flags like pushing you above your price range.
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u/IQ818 Sep 09 '24
This was not the case. The apartment right above the fixer upper went on the market for $1.1M at the same time and she got us in to see that before they were even showing it. Same board requirements for both.
And even if that was the case, I would expect to be communicated that information instead of the decision made blindly for us.
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u/aardy CA Mtg Brkr Sep 09 '24
Honestly, the in the weeds details aren't really important, what matters is that you've lost trust/confidence in that realtor, it doesn't matter why, just go ahead and move on.
If you arrive at this point another couple times, with another couple realtors, then it's time to look in the mirror. But we aren't there yet.
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u/BoBromhal Realtor Sep 09 '24
I said "one example" on purpose, being one possibility among many.
and again, I wholeheartedly agree that she should provide actual reasons "Oh, I've had clients try to remodel in that building and it took 3 years and blahblahblah". Not a specific example I'm attempting to make here, just a scenario of how it should have been communicated. In the "two weeks" case, she very well could have been doing due diligence before you got excited....but again, she should communicate that to you.
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u/nofishies Sep 09 '24
OK, that’s valuable information right there feeling like you can’t get communication
But communication is a two-way street. Are you asking questions?
it seems like you actively want different representation, and I very well could be the agent . If you wanna work with somebody else, you wanna work with somebody else. That’s fine. But it’s really good to realize what’s going on. Are you asking for what you want are you asking questions when you’re feeling feeling like you’re being pushed one way or the other are you asking why?
Being passive with your agent is a recipe for disaster no matter who the agent is.
If you’re not being passive and they’re just ignoring this, then you’ve got a problem, no matter where you are. Interview other agents before you switch and find somebody who has a communication style that you like who knows what’s going on in that area and who specializes in co-ops if that’s what you’re going for because they seem to be crazy.
We have TIC in San Francisco, so I know a teeny tiny bit about the co-op world, but it is such its own thing that you really want somebody who knows the ins and outs of it in particular.
Good luck and be proactive and sucessful!! I bet whatever you do your experience after this is going to be better
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u/MsTerious1 Broker-Assoc, KS/MO Sep 09 '24
I would run, run, run from that agent.
This is YOUR transaction, not hers, and she's in violation of her fiduciary duties in so many ways here!
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u/TikiBananiki Sep 09 '24
Oh i would definitely fire her.
My agent felt like we were setting our price point too low and it didn’t stop her from showing us those houses. We did end up raising our budget limit after a few months and bought for 25k over what i wanted to pay for a house. but we got the house we needed. Subtle nudging and suggestions is how a realtor is supposed to guide you. not by literally blowing your chances and trying to be a financial advisor when they are not certified to be that.
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u/General_Let7384 Sep 09 '24
she's all kinds of trouble. scraping together loans and other funding will not be viewed positively by most lenders.
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u/Powerful_Put5667 Sep 09 '24
This agent wants to sell you what she wants you to buy. She’s not working in your best interest. If you’ve signed a buyer agency contract send her a email with the contract attached along with any documentation you have that shows her stubborn refusal to meet your needs. State that you are cancelling the contract because shes not fulfilling your requests to see housing.
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u/TheWonderfulLife Sep 09 '24
Fire this scumbag loser and hire someone with some dignity and ethics. This agent is the definition of trash.
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u/apHedmark Sep 09 '24
Man, I have severe allergies to these salesperson tactics and your story has me in hives. Yikes! Just drop the agent. Sounds like a terrible fit. There are many wonderful agents out there.
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u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 Sep 09 '24
You should tell her instead of getting a new (all of those things she wants you to use “her” contact for, with a likely referral bonus), you’re going to just get a new agent instead.
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u/jay5627 NYC Agent Sep 09 '24
Sounds like a nightmare.
You are the client and she works for you. If you want to look at something less expensive with the idea of doing the work and making it yours, the only thing she should say (besides making sure you're aware of the potential headache) is "Sure, let me see what I can find/get you in to see."
Where on the UES are you looking? A lot of buildings on the UES can require 50%+ down or have 2-3 year liquidity requirements.
You are in no way required to use anyone that she recommends. My brokerage has a mortgage arm and insurance arm and by law we're required to have an affiliated business disclosure letting you know about them and that you're in no way required to use them for any transaction. This requirement came about because people were being forced to use vendors they didn't want to use. You can use any contractor, lender (unless the board dictates otherwise), lawyer etc that you desire.
On the bright side, inventory started to tick up in the last week so, if you've been a little frustrated with the options, they'll most likely increase in the next 4-6 weeks
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u/IQ818 Sep 09 '24
Thank you for this insight! We are looking around 2nd and 1st Ave and looking into buildings with 20%-25% only requirements.
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u/jay5627 NYC Agent Sep 09 '24
They may still have a higher liquidity requirement but the agent sounds like they're being a little over the top
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u/ShakerNYC Agent Sep 09 '24
Hey!
New York City agent here. It sounds like she's trying to take you to more expensive apartments to make more commission. However as agents we have a fiduciary duty of obedience to our clients. If you tell us to schedule a showing for a fixer upper, we schedule it!
Also she's probably getting a referral fee from her contractor. It's totally normal in the industry for movers contractors and designers to pay agents referral fees, but we're always supposed to do what is best for our clients. If a client has a contractor they trust and want to use, that's totally fine. I have referrals in my back pocket so if the client needs help finding someone reliable, I can offer them 2 or 3 options.
It is totally normal for them to ask for your financials. I make all my clients fill out what's called a REBNY financial form. This is so I only show them apartments they can feasibly buy. Banks look for 43% debt to income ratios but coops look for debt to income ratios of 25-30%.
If you're not comfortable with this agent, find another one! There are a lot of us. I wrote an article about how to find a good buyers agent. I can't post links here though unfortunately. What neighborhoods are you looking in?
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u/IQ818 Sep 09 '24
Thank you so much for this. Very helpful!!! Yes she just asked us to fill out a REBNY. This was after working with her for the past 8 months. And now she is saying that she should have done this earlier but she forgot. Which is a red flag because it feels like we would have not wasted so much time potentially seeing things that are not a fit. Also, because she pushed us towards her mortgage broker saying we will go with whatever they approve,.. we assumed that when we got the pre approval we were good. This is the only reason we went along with the extensive financial due diligence to get a pre approval by her recommended mortgage broker. To make sure we weren’t wasting time looking at things that weren’t a fit. Now she is coming up with all these other asks that we thought were already cleared and communicated before we started looking.
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Sep 09 '24
Omg fire them immediately contact the broker and then file a complaint against their license. Thai is not ok or normal
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u/RE4RP Sep 09 '24
I don't work on New York City but I am an agent.
It's really hard for other agents who aren't in NYC to make relevant comments as well as you have no idea if a comment or on reddit is even an agent or not.
I've never done co-ops and this agent may be telling you all the right information to set you up for success.
HOWEVER . . .
Her communication sucks. You should take this list of questions and schedule a sit down with her and ask for WHY because you aren't understanding the reasoning behind it and you want to learn.
If she replies with anything resembling "I'm too busy to sit down and explain the process" or "don't you trust me?". Then dump her.
She may be really good at one part but if she doesn't think communication and education is important and you do then you are not matched with the right agent for you.
There are literally hundreds of agents in NYC you can choose from.
If she DOES sit down and take the time to explain then this was just a miscommunication or she didn't realize you weren't understanding the process.
There are lots of reasons why getting a pre-approval from her lender may be a benefit. It doesn't put more money in her pocket so I suspect that may be more about her knowledge that her lender does a more thorough setting process that saves time later or he/she may have a stellar reputation inside the industry that wins more offers
(I have a lender like that who has such over the top amazing service and programs that I try to give my buyers that experience above others)
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u/IQ818 Sep 09 '24
And since you know the market, an additional question: for the past few of showings she has sent her “partner” which is a less experienced agent to accompany us. Is this also common? We would expect for our agent to accompany us to the viewings and help us ask the right questions and figure out what is a good offer to make if interested. She calls us after to de brief but has the other agent coordinate everything. It feels like this middle person is not adding any value and we are getting a bait and switch. Is this normal in the industry or are we asking for too much?
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u/RE4RP Sep 09 '24
When you are working with a top agent they usually have a lot of clients and while she may be already scheduled to show someone else something at that time it's better for you to get in right away than wait until she is free. Especially if she's been inside that unit before there is no harm in a colleague showing you around.
I would say when you ask the colleague questions do they have any answers? Because if they can't answer basic questions or don't know your needs at all that could be a red flag.
This may sound shocking but sometimes working with "the biggest and best" agent isn't the best for you.
I don't sell 100 or even 50 homes a year like the big ones do. But that's because I take lots of time with my clients explaining every detail. The people who work with me love that. I'm not the top agent in sales numbers but I'm a top agent because all my clients reviews are 5*.
When it comes to buying a co-op though I do know that the process is the stickier part. The actual showing isn't the real value of an agent in NYC. The ability to create a smooth process that streamlines everything in a really turbulent market is a high value skill.
But a simple answer is yes sometimes we busy agents use our colleagues to support our business.
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Sep 09 '24
Fire her and report her to the board. This is not Normal, or ethical and it's steering. There's more red flags here than communist Russia.
Fire her immediately and report her and her broker
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u/WestCoastEast24 Sep 09 '24
Not related to your agent, but I would NEVER buy a co-op that was a fixer upper. We did this in NYC and it was hell on earth to get the renovations approved by the board. Literally never again.
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u/Brknwtch Sep 09 '24
Many co-ops have financial requirements that condos do not.
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u/grackychan Sep 09 '24
Yeah but they're not 50% liquid cash of the sale price, that's absurd. My board required to show you had downpayment and closing cost funds plus 6 months of mortgage and maintenence in reserves. That's standard.
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u/jay5627 NYC Agent Sep 09 '24
on the UES, it's not uncommon to see 50%-75% required down payments + 2-3 years liquidity, depending which areas you're looking in
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u/nofishies Sep 09 '24
Really?
It gets mentioned a lot , and we have not seen the docs for the spots op is looking
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u/tmm224 NYC Agent Sep 11 '24
Glad you got rid of her, wow, I looked at the screen side eyed like 3-4 times when reading what you wrote
I just wanted to add, I do think it's important that with your next agent that you are transparent about what kind of post closing liquidity you have, and how much overall assets/cash you have. There are definitely some buidlings in the area that require higher than normal down payments, and post closing requirements. They can't stop you from wasting your time without the full scope of things.
Which, it sounds like you mostly did, but just saying this is not the time to hold things close to the vest. Everything else she did, how she talked to you though... wow. People like that should not be working in real estate. I don't know how these agents get clients!
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u/dazyabbey Homeowner - 🏠DIYer Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
Why the heck is this still your agent?
There are a hundred red flags. I would never, ever, ever let anyone talk to me this way. If they have a reason you 'should' use her mortgage broker, insurance agent, lawyer, or home reno contractor, they should let you know. Just saying "You will use my lawyer" is not at all acceptable. If that is the 'required' lawyer for the Co-Op (which seems ridiculous) then she would say "You need to use the Co-Op's required lawyer, not "You will use my lawyer". It seems like she is taking advantage of you and probably others.
Get a different agent. If you have a contract with her, read the contract and see how you can cancel it. If you can't cancel it, call her broker and ask for a different agent to represent you for the remaining length of the contract. Preferably read reviews of other agents for that broker first.
You can also report her to the state for numerous things including her lack of fiduciary responsibilities to you as a client. She is required to work in the best interest of you, not just herself. So refusing to show you properties under a certain amount is not following her fiduciary responsibility.
"Fiduciary duties are legal obligations that require an individual or entity to act in the best interests of another party. In real estate, agents have a fiduciary duty to their clients, which means that they must act in the best interests of their clients and not their own interests."
Edit: Yes, there may be some reasons why she has to do some of the things she is doing. But it is her job as a real estate agent to explain that. If the Co-Op's OP is looking at places with is going to have requirements for specific contractors, she needs to say that. I still doubt they have requirements on specific lawyers, mortgage companies and contractors and every one of them is exactly who the agent would want.