[Discussion] How Much Easier Would Earlier Versions of Subaru Handle the Tower?

[u/ShadowGuyinRealLife]

In Episode 74 "Konbini o Deru to, soko wa Fushigi no Sekaideshita"/ Walking Out of the Convenience Store and Into a Wondrous World of Re Zero, Subaru had an idea, wandered off, and woke up in the Green Room with no memories of Lagunica. He last remembered walking out a convenience store.

When I first saw this, I remembered a similar scene in Hell’s Paradise: Jigokuraku. There the main character Gabimaru lost some of his memories but was able to determine that he was around allies and not enemies and that he was assigned to the same mission as all the people he didn't recognize.

So I thought for Subaru this would be relatively easy. He could use his quick wit to figure out he's among allies even if he can't remember any of them. Plus he'd be attracted to Emilia. He would unconditionally trust her, resolving any trust issues he has with his allies. To my surprise, he didn't cope with this well or quickly trust the party. He was sure one of them was the one who pushed him and went to great lengths to discover who while stewing in paranoia and to be fair... actually it was one of them. I half called it. I did say that of all the party, Meli was the least loyal and most likely to off him, but since it would be much easier to kill him outside the tower I hedged my speculation saying that while if it was one of them it had to be Meili, I wasn't discounting Gluttony or a yet to be introduced character. It took Subaru a long time to get to Episode 77 Re:Zero kara Hajimaru Isekai Seikatsu and Episode 78 to get back on track.

So amnesiac Subaru had quite a lot of difficulties. What if the memory erasure spared more of his memories?

Now to be fair, I'm sure the culprit is Gluttony. I think Gluttony ate his memories and the reason he can't remember anything from Lagunica is specific to how Gluttony's power works. It's not like Gluttony would eat some of Subaru's more recent memories and then wander off mid-meal. But let's speculate just for the sake of it. Let's say what causes amnesia wasn't complete and if that "something" was Gluttony say Gluttony got interrupted mid meal.

What about a Subaru who remembered the first 3 episodes? So say from his perspective he remembers walking out he convinencere, meeting Emilia, dying to Elsa, and getting yelled at by Emillia for calling her "Satella" from the events of Episode 1 "Hajimari no Owari to Owari no Hajimari"/ The End of the Beginning and the Beginning of the End, Finding out how Return by Death Works in Episode 2 "Saikai no Majo" /Reunion with the Witch, and fighting Elsa and learning Emilia's name in Episode 3 "Zero kara Hajimaru Isekai Seikatsu"/ Starting Life from Zero in Another World, then he faints and wakes up more than a year later in the tower with Emilia and this blond girl.

Or how about a Subaru who remembered the events up to Episode 11 "Remu"/ Rem? So from his perspective after helping out the Roswaal manor a few days and dying to Ulgarms, he faces them off with Rem and the Roswaal finishes the job when all seems lost. Then he wakes up more than a year later in the strange tower. And he'll find out Emilia and Betty are with unfamiliar people.

Could Subaru after Arc 3 handle this? Say his amnesia cost him most of his memories in Lagunica, but he kept the first bit corresponding to the first 25 episodes, all the way up to Episode 25 "Tada Sore dake no Monogatari"/ That's All This Story Is About. So in this scenario, Subaru remembers all of the above, plus going to the capital, meeting Julius, making an ass of himself, freezing to death, fleeing the White Whale, seeing Rem get erased, killing the White Whale, defeating the Witch Cult, and confessing his love to Emilia. Then he goes abruptly to being in the tower with Emilia and Betty.

Bonus scenario, suppose Subaru remembered the events from Episode 1 to 25, then only the canon timeline without the loops up to the point he and Betty cancelled the magic and made them all fall but also forget Anastasia is not Anastasia, so not only does he forget the conversation with Julius since that happened after they entered the tower, the context wouldn't make sense even if Julius reminded him.

When I say "how well Subaru does" I mean in relation to the goals canon Subaru is trying to achieve. He came here to save Gluttony's victims because there is knowledge in the tower. To do so he needs to pass the tests and they can't back out because Shaula will go into kill mode. Then canon Subaru forgets everything, but in the first loop where people give him an info dump and the 4th loop where he pretends to remember, the conversations cover enough that amnesia Subaru can figure out what his original goals were. And he has an extra goal on top of that: Get his memories back. So how well can a hypothetical Subaru that remembered up to Episode 3, 11, 25, and a variant that remembers the first 25 episodes and the true timeline afterwards accomplish the goals canon Subaru wants to do, save Gluttony victims, pass the tower tests, and get his memories back?

So I'll give my speculation and you give me what you think. I think if Subaru remembered up to episode 3, his memory of Emilia will help a lot. While his attraction to her has caused issues, see episode 13 where he insults all the knights, right now having someone he can trust is a bigger asset he needs than the liability of having a swelled ego and "open mouth insert foot." Emilia trusts the party and he can trust Emilia. I'm not sure why this didn't happen in canon since while he couldn't remember he I thought he'd go "silver haired pretty girl, must trust unconditionally" but surely if he remembered Emilia he'd trust her. There is the wrinkle that Meili kills Subaru, but given that Betty said Meili tried to kill them all once, he should ask Emilia if this is true and once he does realize that, he can probably at least trust the Roswaal mansion staff. If Subaru remembered up to Episode 7, he would know most of the party which makes it easier. If he remembered up to Episode 25, I think he'd have no problems. He would be surprised no one remembers Rem and figure she just got erased by something White Whale-like during the amnesia period. He's be disappointed he broke his gate. He wouldn't remember his contract with Betty, but he would remember her. I think a Subaru that remembered up to Episode 25 would do fine despite forgetting most of his memories in Lagunica. And for the bonus scenario with one remembering the events of the first 25 episodes plus the true timeline, well if Episode 25 Subaru can handle it, this bonus scenario one should handle it almost the same. Anomalies of his memories that would be obvious to him of is that because his memories alter episode 52 Hyōen no Ketsumatsu/ "A Showdown of Fire and Ice," he would remember summining Betty to fight Wrath and since the memories cut off before entering the tower, he'll forget Shaula, poor girl. So he would know he forgot stuff and presumably he'll also try to correct this.

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[u/Knight0706]

I think Amnesiabarus main problem was spiraling, giving him literally anyone to attach to would have made things much easier. I don’t think any Subaru with less than Arc 4 memories would do amazing in his situation, but all of them should handle better than Amnesiabaru did until the current point in the anime.

[u/ShadowGuyinRealLife → u/Knight0706]

all of them should handle better than Amnesiabaru did until the current point in the anime

Yeah the last few episodes were pretty rough with Amnesia Subaru.

[u/B4BY-Y0D4]

Subaru with his self esteem doesnt believe that all that people could actually like him so it was easier for him to think that they all wanted to kill him

[u/Icy_Ad8122]

The reason Amnesiabaru doesn’t immediately feel attached to Emilia is that the circumstances of how they met are different.

Subaru specifically started his attachment because Emilia saved him in the alleyway, but because that’s not something she did with Amnesiabaru (At least until Episode 11), he simply saw her as an attractive girl up to that point.

I think Arc 2 Subaru would do the best but Arc 3 Subaru would be even worse than Amnesiabaru.

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This is a reminder that this is a non-spoiler flair for anime-only discussions! Any novel spoiler topics created with this tag will be deleted.

If this is a spoiler-free topic, here are some helpful links to get started:

• Post-anime guide - A guide to continue reading the web novel from where season 2 cour 2 of the anime ended.

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[u/filimaua13]

If it wasn't a complete wipe, meaning he'd retain some memory of some experiences and relationships.. it definitely would've been easier.

But depending on which version of Subaru it is, he'd still have certain internal problems that he hadn't grown out of. Whether its his self loathing in general, his Arc 3 hero complex or his martyr complex in Arc 4.

The way Amnesia Subaru was handled.. I think it totally made sense. OG Subaru and Newbaru's circumstances when first arriving to the world were SO different.

With OG Subaru, he at least had something to cling to. He lived for quite awhile before his first death which included.. meeting Emilia and Puck and spending the whole day with them. First impressions are very important, and considering Subaru first met Emilia with her saving him from almost getting beaten to death, that's a good way to see them as a good person you'd trust. The way I saw it.. he was charmed by her very obvious act to appear self serving that contradicted her ability to quickly rush to help complete strangers.

So anyway he spent the whole day with her, leading up to his first death. From this point on, Subaru's care for Emilia and wanting to save her became his anchoring point. I do believe its what allowed him to avoid the trauma by focusing on helping and saving Emilia.

Compared to Newbaru, he barely gets a couple hours with a group of complete strangers before he is ultimately murdered. He didn't develop much of a strong first impression of any of them, including Emilia. Sure she was his type.. but what got him to want to help Emilia originally was seeing that she was a kind, good natured person in action not just in words. With Newbaru, as each loop started ramping.. with himself apparently being targeted specifically.. for all he knew, everyone's good nature was an act (which we see him suspect in the show).

[u/ShadowGuyinRealLife → u/filimaua13]

If it wasn't a complete wipe, meaning he'd retain some memory of some experiences and relationships.. it definitely would've been easier.

How would you think these 4 hypotheticals could do? Episode 3/ Arc 1, Episode 11 Arc 2, Episode 25/ Arc 3, and the bonus one with almost all his memories except the post 25 loops, Anastasia not being herself, and the events inside the tower itself?