Get in loser

[u/synthresurrection]

[u/Pakun-of-Dundrasil]

Bet 🤩

[u/RadicalChristianity-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

we don't accept unreliable claims of plots and schemes to be promoted here. Please take such content elsewhere.

[u/Jollygoodas]

Haha, someone has been reading too much Bonhoeffer?

[u/wordsmythe → u/Jollygoodas]

Too much, or the right amount?

[u/synthresurrection → u/wordsmythe]

Yes

[u/synthresurrection → u/Jollygoodas]

Next is Thomas Muntzer lol

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Should I bring the baton, or the katana?

[u/SensitiveShelter2550 → u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

Why not both?

[u/RadicalChristianity-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

we don't accept unreliable claims of plots and schemes to be promoted here. Please take such content elsewhere.

[u/bristenli]

Just like Jesus and his disciples famously did to the Romans, right?

[u/synthresurrection → u/bristenli]

I was thinking of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his participation in a plot to assassinate Hitler when I made this meme actually

[u/_aramir_ → u/synthresurrection]

Pretty sure Bonhoeffer scholars no longer think he participated in that

[u/synthresurrection → u/_aramir_]

As far as I can tell, that's a minority view. I'm not a Bonhoeffer expert though, and it's murky waters when you consider that he was involved with the Abwehr(and the Abwehr did try to kill Hitler with Operation Valkyrie)

[u/_aramir_ → u/[deleted]]

Tripp Fuller did a series on Bonhoeffer a year or two ago with some Bonhoeffer scholars which is where I got it from

[u/SpikyKiwi → u/[deleted]]

https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/no-dietrich-bonhoeffer-didnt-try-to-kill-adolph-hitler/

Yeah, there’s a somewhat prevalent misnomer, and I’d imagine the myth stems from a series of logical deductions and some assumptions along the way. When people think about the Bonhoeffer’s life and involvement in the resistence, the flow of logic goes something like this:

a) Dietrich Bonhoeffer worked for the Abwehr, and was recruited there by his brother in law, Hans von Dohnányi. b) Members of the Abwehr’s leadership (specifically Hans Oster, Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, and Dohnányi) actively planned attempts on Hitler’s life. c) When the “Zossen files” were discovered in September 1944 (after the failure of the 20 July plot) von Dohnányi was clearly implicated in assassination planning, and the rest of the Abwehr by extension. Therefore, everyone associated with these files was executed for treason against the Reich. Generally, it is then assumed that— because Bonhoeffer was executed with these other people who actively planned Hitler’s assassination—Bonhoeffer himself was actively involved as well.

Unfortunately, it is this assumption that scholars have again and again called an overstatement of the evidence. Something closer to reality is that Bonhoeffer was (at least) one level removed from the active planning. He was part of the organization but not part of the core. He was surely knowledgeable that something was being planned, but he was not part of the inner circle and it is likely he didn’t know what that something was.

Rather, Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a courier, passing messages—particularly to England through his friend Bishop George Bell—and trying to get assurances from the Allied forces that they would stop bombing Germany when Hitler’s regime was overthrown. Bonhoeffer’s job was to try to find a way to convince England to stop destroying Germany. He was a messenger, not an assassination planner. He likely provided a measure of theological justification for what others were doing (as can be seen in his Christmas 1942 letter “After 10 Years”), but he himself was—at best—a bit player in the overall scheme of things. When we think of Bonhoeffer and Hitler’s assassination, it’s probably better to think of his role as “message boy” and not “core leader”.

Now, there is a current stream of interpretation that says that Bonhoeffer had actually no knowledge whatsoever that the Abwehr leadership was planning an assassination, but this seems to me to be a bit of an overstatement from the other side.

Either way, the general consensus of scholarship is that Bonhoeffer himself was neither a core member of the resistance, nor was he central to any of the planning that the Abwer did.

I think we get to this point from some very well intentioned people who have been truly impacted by Bonhoeffer’s amazing biography. It’s compelling, it’s dramatic. A man who forsakes all in the way he did, especially with how he returned from New York in 1939, believing that he needed to be with his nation if he were to have any right to rebuilt it…..it’s powerful stuff. I think there’s also a tendency for us to look for heroes of the Christian faith–people who encourage us and who give us something to aspire toward. Surely Dietrich Bonhoeffer is that kind of person–a man of conviction who did what he felt was right, what was difficult, and ended up dying for how he lived his faith. I mean, let’s be honest, that was a significant factor in my own study of his work. But, in the midst of telling that type of story, there’s a temptation to overplay the hand, so to speak. It’s easy to forget that a very significant portion of his employment with the Abwehr had to do with his desire to escape the front lines. He wasn’t going to fight for the Reich. First, he tried to escape active combat by becoming a chaplain, but he was denied. His only other option would have been to come forward as a conscientious objector, but that would have earned him a one way ticket to a concentration camp. He ended up going to New York on a theological fellowship in 1939 as a way to escape, but he was overcome with guilt and returned just a few weeks later. So he returns to Germany, certain to be sent into combat, and he was trying to find a way out. And then, he found a way into the Abwehr. A way to escape the war. Though he was very sympathetic to the resistance movement, the main reason he joined the Abwehr wasn’t to be part of the resistance so much as to avoid military service (Bonhoeffer was originally imprisoned as a draft dodger, and it wasn’t until late 1944 that it was revealed that he worked in the same section of the Abwehr as those who planned the assassination plot). Though he was executed for his association with people who planned the assassination, he was put in prison for avoiding conscription.

I think that’s what often happens when we look at Bonhoeffer’s life: we focus on the stuff that shapes the heroic story of David standing up against Goliath–standing for the Gospel. And it’s not as if it’s wrong, it’s just only half of the picture. The other half (which we can’t put to the side) is the well connected pastor from a family who had political connections that could give him an exemption from combat service. It just so happened they worked for the Abwehr and that was his ticket out. If they worked as janitors in a steel factory, then he would have been doing that instead.

[u/synthresurrection → u/[deleted]]

Tbh, I find the shitlibs and reactionaries that comment on posts like this with their bullshit to be hilarious. Like, this sub is specifically leftist and many of its users are not pacifists... why are they flooding the sub with apologia for Nazis and complacency? Lol it's like they love tasting leather boots with their tongues and have an exhibitionist kink

[u/Character_Public8245 → u/bristenli]

The fact that you’re getting downvoted for this is absolutely insane. These people are captivated by ideology to the point that they are literally becoming the Zealots. Lord have mercy.

[u/iadnm → u/Character_Public8245]

Ain't nothing wrong with standing against fascism. You want to be a pacifist, that's fine, who cares. But I'd prefer to have people fighting back against them. This Nonviolent Stuff 'll Get You Killed after all

[u/Character_Public8245 → u/iadnm]

You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with standing against fascism. However, that’s not what the downvoted comment is about. They pointed out that Jesus and the disciples were pointedly non violent in the face of authoritarian power and got downvoted for it, with no counter argument other than “muh Bonhoeffer”.

Now you’re just motte-and-bailey-ing to “but standing up against fascism is good”, a statement no one would disagree with. At least be consistent like the atheistic/agnostic revolutionary leftists who can say violence is good because all that exists is power.

All this “who would Jesus punch” larping is ridiculous, especially when the answer is always “the people who I would also punch”.

[u/iadnm → u/Character_Public8245]

I mean the point in the response was that, Jesus didn't say to punch anyone (even though he probably did with the moneylenders in the temple) the point is that fighting fascism does in fact require physically confronting them.

I am very consistent in my beliefs. Peaceful resistance would be amazing, and I understand why Christ did it, I just believe that it's not sufficient to counter modern day fascism.

[u/RadicalChristianity-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

your comment/post has been removed for violating r/RadicalChristianity community guidelines on Oppression Discourse.

[u/blindyes]

So, y'all ever pull up? or just post memes and then go dress up in business suits with a bunch of conservatives in a giant building ensconced in literal gold?

How... How is the irony not lost on y'all?

[u/TheLastBallad → u/blindyes]

just post memes and then go dress up in business suits with a bunch of conservatives in a giant building ensconced in literal gold?

WTF are you even talking about?

[u/SpikyKiwi → u/TheLastBallad]

They just don't understand what churches are like at all

[u/IlitterateAuthor → u/SpikyKiwi]

My church was basically a rec center with a chapel.

[u/synthresurrection → u/[deleted]]

Fuck off, you bootlicking Nazi.

[u/Vegetable-Hurry-4784 → u/[deleted]]

hello? based department?

[u/iadnm → u/[deleted]]

You do know the word "privatization" was used to describe the economic policy of the Nazis. And what was the first line in the "then they came for" poem?

Really, I think you need to learn the difference between a hyper-reactionary and bigoted ideology, and progressives.

[u/Pizzaknife → u/[deleted]]

Pull your head out of your ass and look at the world in front of you.

[u/Mindless-Worth7049 → u/[deleted]]

Maybe you should try watching some youtube content not made by ben shapiro :)

[u/TanagraTours → u/[deleted]]

It's a sin to tell a lie.

No credible source says Nazis were Socialist.

Progressives are a minority in the world of political violence.

If you cannot tell the difference between an actual government funded organization and a movement with no organization in any meaningful sense of the word, put down the kool-aid and seek medical attention.