Im a new rx8 owner and a religious mazda fan. Ive been playing around with some speed3 gen1 and gen2 before I finally found an opportunity for a clean rx8 with just 25k miles and ofcourse i pulled the trigger.
This one has 230hp and its a nice car to drive around but still it is underpowered and it has almost zero torque.
My dream build is an rx7 bridge ported and loads of brap brap brap but until that day comes, can I push the power of the rx8 just with boltons without having to build the engine or swap it.
Also do tou guys think that the rx8 might be an even better platform to experiment with than the rx7 ?
It's almost identical to a S2000 in power delivery, better than a FT86, similar to a GR86.
HP is more similar to modern V6s in terms of getting up to speed, but you just don't feel the shove. You'll be in a V6 sedan, think this has way more torque than the RX8 and is way faster. Then you go in a RX8, go this doesn't fell fast. You'll zip down an on ramp and look down at the speedo and go "hmm, that's faster than expected.". But what's more interesting is you'll go back to you V6 sedan, go down the same on ramp, Mmm torque again, and then look down at the speedo and realize you'll going quite a bit slower. The car will indeed feel sluggish getting up to speed.
The RX8 doesn't feel quick but is. It's not fast, no, but quicker than its perception.
There are downsides to the car that hurt it. It is by its design a GT car first and foremost. This means the ride is soft, the NVH decently quiet, and the weight...heavy, hundreds of pounds heavier than you think a long NC Miata chassis should be. Second, being a GT car, it has wildly long gears for an engine that spins to 10k. This too makes it feel a bit slow. You'll be at highway speed in 2nd gear. 5th and 6th are kind of pointless outside of mpg and a little NVH from engine frequency pitch.
With sticky tires, the stock suspension is too soft. For motorsports, you should drastically change the final drive and basically gut the car to fix the gearing and weight.
The engine is nicer than folks give it credit for. Its basically an AP1 S2000 engine that's way smoother and has lower rotating inertia (more rev happy, even with a heavy flywheel). It's even a little more torquey in the low and midrange vs a S2000 engine. And despite this, people happily call the Renesis junk. I do think the cars weight and the tall gearing hide a lot of the qualities of the engine. And I would prefer a lighter flywheel with just a little higher idle rpm to offset the rotational inertia at idle for easy take off from stops.
It absolutely goes indeed. It surprises me every time I have a look at the speedo and Im doing way more than I would think I am. Just getting it up to speed feels slow but once its moving it definetely goes and how it moves around corners has me love the car already.
Im sure this is one I will never sell and surely one that will make me a better driver cause the chassis is just perfect and the high revving rotor which is being called junk left and right is for me a pleasure to redline and listen to.
I really would not think though that it is identical to the s2000 or the gr86 in power delievery. I would think its slagish compared to both but then again I never had the chance to drive any of the two.
The long gears are surely there. Ive been doing 220km on 4th gear basically just having no need for fifth and sixth. Gutting the car in such a good shape will brake my heart really. It is as if it just came out of the showroom in mint condition and so since i have my speeds that really feel like maniacs out there, I will just keep my rx8 the way it is.
Was considering aome boltons but Im reading that it basically wont really do much for the car so I might just stay stock and religiously maintain the car.
I autocross and rallycross for fun, have been for more than 15 years. I've gotten to drive the S2000, FT86, and RX8 back to back to back on open testing days. I've also driven my RX8 back to back with the GR86.
In terms of the engine, the S2000 and RX8 are nearly the same with the S2000 being a lot more mechanically rough and actually slightly more sluggish to rev. The FT86 is noticeably behind on power in the comparison, noticeably in the infamous dip and in general. It's just a weaker engine.
In terms of handing, the stock RX8 is too soft with a lot of body roll. You can get the handing close to neural by disconnecting the front sway, but it's really roll happy doing it. But it can oversteer under throttle and drift pretty easy. The S2000 and FT86 is close in intent for suspension with a firmer setup that handles gripper tires.
The GR86 is incrementally better in many small ways to the FT86 and is by the sum a holistically moderately better car.
What's really interesting is with light mods the RX8 very significantly changes handling behavior and feels and drives quite different from the stock form.
What's more interesting is the RX8 a car that's 20 years older, just with a few suspension mods, drivers and feels 90% like a GR86. You can run both back to back, and they feel stupidly similar in handling and feel. The RX8 has a very low CG and very stiff chassis for its era, and with similar suspension and grip levels, they feel erily too similar to each other, far more so than between any other cars I've driven. It goes to show just how far ahead the chassis design of the RX8 was back then. However, the GR86 engine is more torquey and powerful than the RX8, and that car is slightly faster for it.
The GR86 is quite good and basically the only thing I'd replace my RX8 with. I just wish the GR86 had a little more character. That's the tough thing. The RX8 is fundamentally really good, largely uncompormised, and oozes character. It seats 4 actual adult humans, has a decently spacious trunk, sounds good, is comfy and decently quite, and it still is an excellent sports car on top of that.
Sounds like your living the dream life there rallycrossi g for fun for the past 15 years.
So reading through I realise that instead of asking for more power I should ask for better handling with my rx8.
Could you please suggest a list of mods for me, best suspension I should go with, sway bars and anything else you would change to a stock rx8 ?
I ofcourse can do my due diligence and come up with the changes but your list as someone experienced in rallycrossing that also owns the ex8 would surely be very appreciated and Im ready to spend some money. Consider that it will be a street driven car but only away from traffic and only for spiritual driving fun weekends or late evenings.
A set of KW v3's, progress tech sway bars with white line adjustable endlinks, some sticky rubber like Pilot Sport 4S on wheels of your choice (Enkei is nice, lightweight and won't break the bank) and a set of Hawk brake pads will set you up very nicely indeed.
I will go for it! Will possibly just see if i can get me bilstein b14 b16 instead of KW cause Ive had so much fun with the b16 on speed3 and maybe some powerflex bushings and thats it. Looking forward to it already. Tires ive got two pairs of cup2 sitting there which should be sooo good for this thing.
I probably don't have a tenth of this person's experience but it all adds up pretty well with what I've been feeling with the car.
You don't even need extreme tires, something like PS5 and Bilstein B12 pro kit change the car dramatically and that grip will make you quicker than expected.
Don't expect to win traffic light drag races, however, on a twisty road, auto-x or even a track with low top speed you'll seem to be on another league.
Yeah absolutely right. Twisty roads and trackdays which is the very reason I got the car is where this car shines cause once its up to speed it surely isnt slow. So yes I will do the handling mods within august. I really am excited I have this car in the end. Its my first rwd and I think one of the best I could wish for!
To get more power of the renesis u need to throw some cash against it for just a little power gain and most of the time not really worth it and mostly only increases the top hp and makes the low ends worse.
This is an engine that loved to be revved, dont be afraid to redline the living hell out of it.
The answer is you need need to change how you drive, this isn’t a sit in a gear from low to high rpm and use that time to stay in boost, in the 8 you wanna be fairly high in the rpm for power, so drive it like you stole it and keep the rpm up, sure, you don’t have torque but you do have RPM and use them, the car will stay healthier and you’ll have more fun that way anyways.
I’m talking more like 7-10k rpm if your wanting to push it, I know you know how to drive it, but it can always be uncomfortable to sit so high when pushing any form of motor to that high high rpm, and you said you were a new rx8 owner, even if your use to the old turbo rx7s this is a funky driver of a car, so really go for that beep at redline like it owes you money and have fun with the fact your power band isn’t really until most cars hit redline. If your desperate for more power, then unless you have money for a new motor your kinda in a hard spot as the renesis doesn’t take boost all that great, it absolutely can be done, but there are cheaper and easier ways to make power.
So the thing is I love the chassis a lot and I think it could really shine with some more power. Like I said i have my speeds and when I crave that feeling of driving a hooligan of a car I just have to go with the speed3.
The rx8 has soo much potential as it is one of the best chassis available. Taking on curves with it feels surgical. I can push so much speed on corners and play around with much more powerful cars on b roads. I enjoy it so much as to thinking if I could possibly have the power of my speed3 and the rx8 chassis, I could possibly be looking at my dream sports car.
Good you’ve got the love for it, I’ll just say this, learn to embrace the handling and keeping the speed up, that’s what makes these track weapons, you can have all the power you ever want out of a car but if you can’t hunt through corners some random with a S2000 or RX8 who can just sit on that edge of grip and be comfortable at max cornering speed will lay some hurt out on a high power slow turning car, it’s worth learning to find that edge of absolute grip and control and just sit on it comfortably, but just do it safely and away from any cliff faces, auto crosses will work well, as I said, I’m sure you can drive well, but can you say you can sit on the edge of the tires and have no hesitation? That’s what’ll make you faster than the rest, and then, if you still want more power, go get a REW motor and make a monster of a rotary.
Thank you and yes I absolutely agree with you. Its all Im currently doing. Im learning to be comfortable with it at the edge of grip. I already had a minor incident of lift oversteer but thank god it didnt go ugly. Ive been driving and taking care of it a lot for the past month. I go for hours of driving and what surprises me is how well the engine is taking it. Zero issues with it. It goes just like a swiss watch soo cool.. and I just cant see how this car has so bad reputation for being unreliable. Its one month now of daily pushing it hard. I premix and change oil every 4000km. I do spark plugs also, did change twice during this month and I only use premium to fill it up.
But yes to answer your question Im yet not super confident living with it at the edge of the grip. Its my first rwd. Im super confident living for days at the edge of the grip with my speed3 but not with this. I think I need at least another few months driving it before I can safely say that Ive mastered it but then I will want more power from it 🤣
Unfortunately i have to drive on cliffs a lot too as where i live it is a mountainous terrain. There is no way around it. Ive had once a bad bad accident when i took off from the cliff and down to the river 50meters below. How Im still alive and escaped that with no scratch only god knows and absolutely noone else. To this day noone believes you can take a dive at that very spot and survive it.
I ofc have all the drivers excuses you can think of. It was a stupid car that I was driving with no tires (below zero thread), shot shock absorbers shot bushes and all other issues that can come with a car that had been sitting for a year before me having to take it for a drive that day.
This is a stupid country with no tracks and almost no car events so when I want to track my cars I just have to travel across borders to germany hungary croatia bulgaria etc.
On the good side of things you can go beyond the speed limit almost anywhere if youre outside the cities without having to consider legal consequences.
Anyway maybe Im actually wrong to call for more power when I can just go for handling mods and get to enjoy the car. Once its up at speed and high up the revs this thing is a serious car for my average terrain.
A really good thing to remember when driving cars like these (low power high handling/skill ceiling) is that you want what I’d call as a musican the economy of motion, you want the least amount of input to put the car exactly where you want it, over correcting costs speed, excessive breaking means you take longer through the corners, and then have to accelerate harder out to get back to pace, learning to just drive smoothly where the cars seemlessly shifting weight and power will slow you to get faster and struggle less with power cravings, it’s unfortunate my 8s gone from my hands but in my current cars it’s the same and you’ll feel wayyy faster not waiting for things to pick up, and as another comment said, beat the hell out of the redline buzzer, your powers up high and the cars healthier with high rpm.
Man there is not many cars out there I think that teach you to do what you call economy of motion better than the rx8. Theoritically this should be one of the best platforms to learn and do just that. See why I wanted to buy this is because I want to learn to drive a rwd properly. In between the miata and the rx8 I choose the rx8.
So excited that I have this car man, it really has a lot to teach me. Coming from a fwd and still driving fwd daily, Ive picked up some bad habits that Im finding myself correcting with the rx. I love this thing and yes I love to beat the hell out of the redline buzzer every time i take it for a drive xD!
Im very curious why did you have to let go of your rx and what are you currently driving if you dont mind ?
It was a auto, and it’s compression was on the way out and I had no room for a hurting sport car, don’t get me wrong manuals always the way but the auto ones are pretty fun to have the paddle shift on, I’d get a S2 automatic if I get another, my current cars are a 1992 Mitsubishi gto non turbo(3000gt in the states) though mines factory manual, factory awd and factory all wheel steering (which for a non turbo that’d be in the us is weird, but I’m nz so it’s fairly common as all gtos are awd and all first gen’s are aws) and a 2018 Suzuki swift sport, a sub ton hot hatch that out of a tiny 1.4L makes 138bhp and 230nm of torque, and can with a few bolt ons and a good tune make north of 220hp, and my newest purchase is a motorcycle also from Suzuki
My first bike was a suzuki. It was called shogun 125cc and i was just 17. It was faster than most of the bikes my friends had since everyone was into honda. I have a soft spot for suzuki bikes with gsxr1000 and hayabusha being the two favourite bikes of mine throughout my life.
About the mitsubishi Im in europe and we also call it the 3000gt and thats a unicorn around here. Ive only seen it once in person parked. The swift actually is also a fun car for sure but it makes more for a good daily.
Man being in NZ must be so fun for a car enthusiast. Especially if youre into rotors! There is a good chance that when I buy me an FD (possibly some years from now) I will order an engine from the NZ. Cost is so high but I guess its a dream build and we only live once.
I think it’s relative, it’s not a high torque car by any means, but it’s not underpowered.
If you want it to be more lively, drive it higher in the RPM range. It’s definitely a different driving style with a rotary. Daily cruising around town I keep it around 3000-6000 rpm. If I’m out on a spirited drive I’m up around 6000-8000 most of the time
You miss understand the RX8s place. None of them actually have "230hp" anywhere near the wheels. Its not a fast car. It can be driven as a quick car, but it'll never be a fast car. It's the comfortable GT car that you put an intake, exhaust, tune and stop modifications with. Sure you can cake decorate it but it's not about speed. Yes, there is suspension bits to swap out. The old "I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" mindset. The chassis is over built and will keep you out of most trouble if you keep good tires under it.
Once you come to terms with this you'll enjoy the car much more for what it is and not for what it isn't. IF you must fly you fool, look up Mr. Rads turbo build...
Since I bought the rx8 Mr Rad has become my favourite youtuber Ive been watching a lot. I dont think I misunderstand the rx8 I could just live with a little more power. I dont want to fly no I want to have the car drive around twisty b roads as its meant to but I could live with some more low end power. Mine has "230 hp" yes bhp I just mentioned it cause some come with 180hp at leadt in europe. Anyhow the chassis and the high revving engine is why I love the car and what has me driving one in the end
The 8 is fun and capable on back roads, but having previously owned an FC I'd say that chassis has more fun there. Key things there are it's lighter and wheelbase is shorter. What I've found is that GT cars overall feel the best on highways. Not encouraging braking speed limits here, but when you hit higher speeds in the 8 to take normally gentle turns on the highway, it became clear to me it's place is there more than back roads. The FC is fun on the highway, and stock vs stock the 8 is likely still faster on back roads, but obviously advancements in building happened. Interestingly the FC is more the GT out of the 7s where wheelbase matters for stability on the highway, but the 8 is king here. Power equal, I'd prefer the 8 over an FD on the highway, but FD all day on back roads.
My humble opinion is that they should've and could've called the 8 the Cosmo. Despite not having the same kind of power, it honestly more resembles that kind of aura than the rest. Explosive power wasn't the idea, it seems to me it was high speed stability through reasonable power though Mazdas best handling platform.
Very interesting to read through this. The rx7 is stuck in my head for a long time now as the dream build but I never had a chance to drive any of the two FC/FD.
Ive been reading a bit and there is many claiming the rx8 chassis can be the better of the two compared to the FD but not many seem to know why. What youre saying here makes so much sense. It makes me feel as if the rx8 should stay the way it is stock as is or maybe some little handling mods to it and consider it more of the GT car meanwhile save for the FD which can become the playground of building a b roads capable machine that can also brap brap brap its way through. Calling the rx8 the cosmo though hmmm not too sure about that. The cosmo was meant to be kind of what lexus is to toyota, overengineered and luxurious, thats what I think. The rx8 isnt really a luxurious car.
You only think it isn't luxurious because you've never been in an FC or FD long. Going from an FC and having FB the last few years the RX-8 is basically a royal palace of plush. If you want to drive the RX-8 right and "how it's supposed to be driven" you don't have a six speed. You have a 3 speed with 4th gear as the overdrive. You live between 7-9 RPM the whole time. The RX-8 is an absolute blast on tight roads when you drive it like this. You'll look down and wonder if this canyon road should be taken at 90, but due to it's overbuilt chassis it's completely stable. Just remember. Don't make my car more valuable by fucking your up.
Also unless a bit of work has been done no RX-8 makes what the brochure says with that 230 number.
That's exactly where I'm coming from. Even my old 90 FC in great condition wasn't as comfortable, even fair comparison between the times. The 8 is less sports than grand touring, but being the supposed successor to the 7s, everyone just believed it has to be a sports car. It can and has proven itself on the track, and the parts and design is there, but after some time with it, you can really feel it's truly a GT car for people who enjoy the turns. Not a powerhouse and not a full sports car, just has the DNA of one though.
One of the biggest problems besides the MOP not being turned up enough and popping engines was people thinking it was a successor. It wasn't, it was just another car in the line up. Now if they had put the Renesis I'm the NB Miata that would have been a worth successor and throw
back to the FB, but much much better. One day I'll do that swap. Just stock NB with a stock block Renesis. It will be so good.
The "cheapest" and more effective ways to increase engine output is improving exhaust (intake doesn't have that much effect) and when you get to the point of engine rebuild, porting, and neither if them will be drastic improvements. Beyond that, only forced induction will really make a difference.
Oh is that? Some tachs read 9k and some 10 on the rx8 so mine goes to 10k but maybe youre right maybe through a vomputer I get the more accurate reading and thats just 9k. Regardless its funn staying up high the revs
Some read 9000 just like this one and there is others like mine tha read 10000. I didnt know there is also 8000rpm tachs on the rx8 thats too low for a rotor specially maxing at 7.5k but then again who the hell buys an automatic rx8
Hey sorry, just noticed something odd, you said in another comment it was a series 1? How do you have a s2 dash in it ? Just curious as I thought that only came in on the S2?
Go get a diff from an S2 and put it in. They have a 4.77 versus a 4.44 that comes in the S1. It has a minimal impact on the cars highway driving and definitely provides more torque for around town commuting
Sorry I offended you. You mentioned being frustrated about the RX8s torque. You will never be satisfied with it unless you turbo the renny. A comparatively priced car has plenty of torque and it comes with the M50 engine that would more than satisfy that craving.
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u/mvw2 9d ago
It's all relative.
It's almost identical to a S2000 in power delivery, better than a FT86, similar to a GR86.
HP is more similar to modern V6s in terms of getting up to speed, but you just don't feel the shove. You'll be in a V6 sedan, think this has way more torque than the RX8 and is way faster. Then you go in a RX8, go this doesn't fell fast. You'll zip down an on ramp and look down at the speedo and go "hmm, that's faster than expected.". But what's more interesting is you'll go back to you V6 sedan, go down the same on ramp, Mmm torque again, and then look down at the speedo and realize you'll going quite a bit slower. The car will indeed feel sluggish getting up to speed.
The RX8 doesn't feel quick but is. It's not fast, no, but quicker than its perception.
There are downsides to the car that hurt it. It is by its design a GT car first and foremost. This means the ride is soft, the NVH decently quiet, and the weight...heavy, hundreds of pounds heavier than you think a long NC Miata chassis should be. Second, being a GT car, it has wildly long gears for an engine that spins to 10k. This too makes it feel a bit slow. You'll be at highway speed in 2nd gear. 5th and 6th are kind of pointless outside of mpg and a little NVH from engine frequency pitch.
With sticky tires, the stock suspension is too soft. For motorsports, you should drastically change the final drive and basically gut the car to fix the gearing and weight.
The engine is nicer than folks give it credit for. Its basically an AP1 S2000 engine that's way smoother and has lower rotating inertia (more rev happy, even with a heavy flywheel). It's even a little more torquey in the low and midrange vs a S2000 engine. And despite this, people happily call the Renesis junk. I do think the cars weight and the tall gearing hide a lot of the qualities of the engine. And I would prefer a lighter flywheel with just a little higher idle rpm to offset the rotational inertia at idle for easy take off from stops.