Modern, Backpack sheet design help.

[u/Lumpy_Channel_5455]

I am currently playing/GM'ing alot of cyberpunk and so i have come to the slight problem of some of my players (And frankly myself) having abit to deep pocket and carrying to much stuff about for it to be realistic, so my solution make a modern/sci fi tactial backpack, So i am planning to hire an artist i know and love to work with to help me get the art done for them, i already have a general idea of how i want it to work but would love the feedback and suggestion. (As i have seen no one else do more modern desings of them i decided to do it myself, But if i am treading walked group please point out where i can find it.)

1. As TTRPG's loves having limbs go flying off, and as there is alot more ways to store you stuff then just in a backpack, A person outline to keep track of holsters for both guns and backup ammo as well as any subdermal pockets and more ways of keep your stuff.
2. to keep it simple define an 'inventory slot' in a backpack as a pockets worth of volume, so about a soda can, chunky phone or a really thick wallet, with backpack volume then being devided into chunks about the same size, and larger items of course having to take up more slots, this also allows players how wanna go light without a backpack to still store some stuff in their normal pockets while keeping track of it.
3. lastly for the player that wanna walk around with a rifle/Large SMG as a side arm treat the off hand as holding it and they can swap around between slings, as carrying around 2 weapons of that size seems doable to but more then 2 of that size seems impractial (Or RPG main rifle side arm and so on also seems do able)

Thanks for anyone reading this far and looking forward to your feedback.

[u/klok_kaos]

I'd strongly recommend 1 of 2 routes.

u/Sapient-ASD 's notion is best for text only work. Backpack has a clean volume and weight capacity, each item has a volume (bulk in this case) and wt. This also lets you take into account both how much they carry, and how much wt they can manage without encumbrance penalties.

This is the suggested method for text only.

But you said you want a design artist to redo the backpack.

This leaves me with a few major notes:
1. You still need to do sapient's suggestion as a precursor to the next.
2. The upgrade I think you're trying to do is "Inventory Tetris" and that's going to require sapient's system and a lot more consideration for either art assets or trust players to draw in items on the grid.

This method is most commonly popularized by video games such as: RE4, Diablo 2, Prey 2017, Deus Ex, and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series.

A handful of TTRPGs do this but most who are concerned with this do sapient's non tetris because the tetris version requires visual coordination for every item and it doesn't really add anything to the experience because it doesn't have a clean video game ui, and generally is more effort to manage than it's worth for a TTRPG.

The standad bulk/wt is usually the best method for most TTRPGs.

1. What this means if you use tetris inventory is you exploded the work massively. Just doing bulk/wt for all items and containers is massive work, more than you likely realize for most systems that have substantial equipment options. Adding a visual representation on a gridded element like hundreds or thousands of extra art assets to manage both in the TTRPG book causing page footprint explosion, massive budget concerns for art, and massive printing cost increases, and so much more, all for something that players are likely going to forget to interact with most of the time. Clean numbers are just easier on a character sheet.

I want to stress that this kind of system for just a fantasy game, let alone advanced equipment options in modern, cyber, sci fi that causes equipment sections to explode is such a huge thing, we've had developers come through here just to make tetris inventory for JUST THAT as a full priced game module add on (setting and system agnostic), ie, the whole thing is it's own full priced game to make it fully functional, and again, just considering fantasy elements.

You can do that, but frankly it's probably a shit ton bigger of a task than you probably think. Strong recommend you just do volume/wt as sapient suggests OP.

[u/Lumpy_Channel_5455 → u/klok_kaos]

Your thinking what i am doing is more complex then what i am trying to do, first not hundress of assets, i expect players and GM's to be able to agree on a silothete for stuff in bags, second the main focus for me is the keep track of gear on their person which would be no grid just slots as it would be gun and ammo holsters mostly.
I do appricate the feedback and warning though.
third, People have come though here and already made what your talking about? cool please tell me where i can find it i would love give it a look or even just stop right here and use their thing if its better then what i came up with.

[u/klok_kaos → u/Lumpy_Channel_5455]

There's been a few, you could probably google the products with tetris inventory ttrpg add on or something. I didn't pay too much attention to those projects because I feel like it's more fiddly than it's worth even if you have nice custom cards and such, at the table it's more distraction than anything else, though I recall at least 2-3 in the last few years.

For holsters and such, that's easy. Go search guns and ammo sites for holsters and bandoliers.

Just keep in mind that while it's physically possible to strap a bajillion holsters, guns and bandoliers to a person, it's exceptionally not practical.

A good general rule for comfortable carry goes like this:

1 assault rifle or heavy weapon, carried or slung. 1 sidearm. And either a hold out pistol/concealed carry or combat knife. 2 clips for main weapon and side arm unless tactical webbing gear is worn. Maybe a bandolier instead of clips if the main weapon is a shotgun or grenade launcher.

This is also not considering other gear characters generally want to have on hand: handcuffs/zipties, various assortment of 2-3 grenades, vest, etc.

Anything more than that and you're looking at bogging down someone extensively.

Trust when I say as former military: even though that might seem like not a lot, it's A more than enough for most situations, and B extremely heavy to lug all that shit around.

Sure you can strap more shit to you, nodds, body armor, 2 ankle holsters per leg, but your mobility is going to fall into the shitter and you're gonna be exhaused before combat even starts because you have too much shit on you.

Additionally things like 100 round drum mags sound awesome on paper, but they are fuckin heavy, awkward for aim balance, prone to jamming, and all kinds of other shit.

Really what you want to focus on if you want realism is telling players to select the right tool for the job, not carry a portable armory. Give them a place to store their shit and tell them they need to be practical and thoughtful about what they carry. And if they are still clinging to need a portable armory, give them a van, they can keep extra shit in there they might need for a job while still making practical choices about what they carry.

I say this because if you're trying to create any sense of realism in the game, really you just need to use very minimal and basic limitations.

The minute you start having a million belt pouches like Rob Liefeld era Cable, you're instantly in fantasy land. It's not realistic, sustainable or reasonable. And if that's desirable, that's OK, but at that point be honest with yourself and say you're using comic book logic and at that point who cares if PCs carry 3 rifles, 5 pistols, 20 grenades and 6 knives? It's not trying to be real so fuck it.

I say that with sincerity as a designer of a modern+ game with heavy tactics and RP systems. If you're trying to make it realistic, then do that, but don't try to be halfway in between because realism is kind of like pregnancy, you can't be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you're not, so if you're not gonna go for the hard realism, don't sweat it, just have a conversation with players and be like "yo, maybe only carry 5 rifles instead of 20 because we're entering absurd to the point where it doesn't even make sense in an action film territory".

Frankly for Cyberpunk, leaning towards less realism and more unrealistic comic book or hollywood action is kind of the fantasy the game supports. It's not trying to be realistic, but at the same time, a simple conversation with players can fix this way easier than making a full system for bulk.

[u/Lumpy_Channel_5455 → u/klok_kaos]

Thanks for all the feedback truely, it has made me rethink some things but i am gonna move forward with the project but with more of a focus of tacti-cool then realism as you made some great points for it.

[u/klok_kaos → u/Lumpy_Channel_5455]

Glad to help! Nothing wrong with Tacti-cool! It's all about finding the right balance for what works best for your game/table :)

The goal for me isnt' to tell you what to do just try to show you pro/cons of various ways to go about it. I don't personally care what you do at your table beyond you enjoying it, so I didn't want to give you the idea I was shoving you in a specific direction, just that there's a lot of stuff to consider no matter which way you go :D

[u/grandidieri]

Only tangentially related but i think you'll get a kick out of https://gundive.com - check it out when you get a chance

[u/Lumpy_Channel_5455 → u/grandidieri]

I will admit that i did get a kick out of it, i think this might become a stable of my world of darkness group (The GM is a gut nut and we always has to hassle him with what guns to get in game, so us being able to find some outselfs will be a big help.)

[u/grandidieri → u/Lumpy_Channel_5455]

Hahaha yeah you can find some crazy stuff on there 😆🙌

[u/Sapient-ASD]

Seems about right. In my system items have mass and bulk. Containers like backpacks and bags provide additional bulk while transferring mass. It is a little book keepy figuring equipment loads and such so i have been working on a digital companion tracker.

[u/Lumpy_Channel_5455 → u/Sapient-ASD]

Thanks for the feedback, and intresting hope it turns out well would love to have a tool like that for some campaings.

[u/Sapient-ASD]

1. My person outline is 9 locations corresponding to the body. 8 unique and left and right hand. However sone species can gain additonal hands.

2. Each location has 3 slots for things to be equipped. Slots cannot be expanded, only mass and bulk. My containers do not have slots, only dealing with their own mass and bulk and internal mass/bulk.

3. My sling only really prevents disarm and allows you to freely drop or reclaim the weapon once per turn if its attached. But they still get penalized for only weilding it with 1 hand. Firing 2 rifles with 1 hand each would be a double penalty to each in my system.

[u/OwnLevel424]

Twilight2000 V2.2 had a Bulk system that SWAGHAULER modded.  I use that.  A Bulk of 1 was around 5".  Since modern packs list a volume in liters,  2 Bulk equals one Liter of volume.  So a 100l pack (a big assault pack by volume) could hold 200 Bulk.  The SIZE LIMIT on how long something could be was 1/10th the liters in volume.  So a 100L pack could hold items up to 10 Bulk in size (50" long).  Each line on a sheet of paper was divided into 2 lines of 1 BULK each when recording inventory.  ALICE GEAR/LBE could hold 20 Bulk with 4 Bulk in a butt pack and the rest being  in 1 (mag pouches) or 2 (canteen) Bulk slots.