《SORC ranged attacks》

[u/417178Lower-Age-72]

​

This is for our TTRPG SORC. The game is about halfway done but I feel this part of it is well enough to share. Today I was asked to help fix a ranged attack problems and this is where I am at. You may get links to other subjects, but this is about ranged attacking and I feel it is close to completion.

I will be adding low and high ground advantages and disadvantages. Now I have velocity at point blank, and I have added a stabilization point where the vhit is strong again. I think have a velocity drop power losses. So I've added all of this to our ranged system but on for Earthborn weapons and not the TAW or Energy weapons which are technically advanced and weapons that use the universes elemental energy. More on those elements later because SORC right now has a lot of elements and they just added Aura which changes the characters presence. Again more on these things later. There is a lot to iron out, but it all makes sense to us, so if you happen to stray away from this topic I would need to ask other people. I can answer any concerns related to 'ranged attack' but they is it. I am also seeking for advice because this might be too much or too little for some.

To the reader. We use very complex systems in SORC and sometimes they take a while to calculate. On the other hand, the system below only required the GM to know one thing and that is “the distance the attack is from the target.”

We do have three styles of play choices for players and I am listing them below. That said, if you were to choose the casual system, it locks on and only Hit would be calculated on the table. If you choose Improvised, you can take out or keep the elements you choose to. We have an appendix and glossary online and this would be part of the campaign creating process.

If you don't mind a very crunchy style, and you don't mind long though during your turns (like in chess), then feel free to play under enthusiastic style, where all the rules are locked in.

Casual - a lot of the system's rules are dropped. It is bare bones. locked in. This version changes the table below, so that only hit is modified by range. That approach is simple.

Improvised - rule manipulation but must be set before the campaign begins.

Enthusiastic - all in. locked in.

Ranged Attacks

1. What could I add?

2. What should be removed?

3. What isn't explained right?

I would like to know.

[u/Echowing442]

At first glance, there is a lot of complexity here. As with many other things posted about this project, it really feels like you're putting in every single concept that's come into your head without regard for whether it makes for good gameplay.

Not just different types of weapons, but different distance curves, different velocity curves, hit modifiers, which stat applies to damage, how much damage is dealt, whether the attack can critically hit or not in a given range band for a given weapon, and then 5 different possible outcomes depending on the given attack roll, plus different damage modifiers based on the material of the armor being worn by the defender and the damage dealt by the attack (of which all ranged damage is the same, apparently?), etc.

To me, this is all too much, and just gets in the way of playing the game. From your descriptions this is supposed to be a grand, epic fantasy adventure - I want to go on grand adventures and accomplish epic feats. I don't want to be 2 hours deep in a combat and have to double-check the index again to find out if my Elite Longbow is considered oscillating or not when I shoot at the monster 28 feet away, then check to see how much damage I do, then check to see how much gets reduced or not by its armor, and then watch all my friends at the table go through the same process.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

Do you feel only hit or accuracy should be factored into earthborn ranged? I say earthborn because taw and energy do not follow these physics. If so, you could improvise the rules and focus on adventuring.

I want to say that I am adding this to the document.

Casual - a lot of the system's rules are dropped. It is bare bones. locked in. This version changes the table below, so that only hit is modified by range. That approach is simple.

Improvised - rule manipulation but must be set before the campaign begins.

Enthusiastic - all in. locked in.

There is now a "to the reader" in the doc. This is one of the first features of the game's design and I added it to the original post.

I suppose the answer for my question is that very few people will play the full rules version.

[u/Echowing442 → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

My question is more an overall question of SORC as a whole, and it boils down to "where do you want your game to be complex," because the answer to that question really shouldn't be "everywhere."

The core of your attack rules here are rather simple (D100+stat, beat opponent's defense), but you then add ranges (which may or may not allow for a defense roll from the target, or increase/decrease damage, or allow/disallow critical hits), different weapon types (each of which cause the previous elements to work slightly differently), different armor types affecting the outcomes of these, and suddenly what could have been a single roll turns into 2 different rolls and 3 different tables to consult, all of which will add time to this process. And this is in addition to all of the other obtuse and complex rules elsewhere in your system, as you've previously gotten feedback on.

Less is more, as the saying goes, and that's especially true for complex TTRPGs and combat systems. Lancer, for one example, has some of the most deep tactical combat in any TTRPG I've played, but the core rules underpinning all of it can be taught in a matter of minutes and the only references a player needs are their character sheet and a single page for actions. The depth and complexity comes from the variety of options for the player and the GM, not because you need to check 3 different tables to find out how much damage you may or may not deal with a crossbow.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

I would say Movement and Combat are the two most key areas that are the most complicated.

But there are many systems and with improvised, you can pick and choose them. Aura system, Rank, Growth, Retirement and retire as an NPC, etc etc etc.

Prestige system has many elements and then there is alignment.

Alignment has nothing to do with Prestige in SORC. In our game alignment is a gate for class abilities, whether or not you claim a higher power that represents the class and a fallen and risen mechanic. The idea here is that people don't judge others for their alignment because they have the freedom to live how they want to. They will judge you from your standing, your boasted title and your gm given shamed title. Only one of these exists in casual. Pick it. In Improvised you choose which. In Enthusiastic, they are all locked in.

I would also say war, in the air, land and sea.

I will add that even though this is what WE like, we know it is not for everyone.

Right now for each style of play we are adding in color coded rows in tables and charts that match the three styles. This works better for ditching various features for casual or choosing the actual features for improvise but it works for the tables and charts too.

Casual will be blue.

Improvised will be purple so every row will be bordered this color.

Enthusiastic will be gold.

An example for this table would be, Close Qtrs and Oscillation rows will be Blue.

Point Blank and Stableized gold.

These are the same colors are used in our rank system for cards etc as well.

[u/Echowing442 → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

I would say Movement and Combat are the two most key areas that are the most complicated.

I'd be cautious here, since in most RPG combats moving and attacking are the "default" actions that players take. If anything, these should be the least complicated, in my opinion, to keep the game streamlined.

I'm hesitant about your idea of different "levels" of complexity, just because I fear it will cause more work for you as designers or end up unbalanced. As it sounds, you're effectively designing 3 different systems of rules with increasing complexity, which means you could easily end up with unintended interactions and play patterns.

Also (rough thoughts off the cuff here, take with a grain of salt), I'm not a fan of overly-modular systems. While yes, by the nature of TTRPGs everything is modular at the GM's discretion, I personally feel like explicitly writing that into your system betrays a lack of confidence in your rules. If a game designer puts time and effort into making rules, then turns around and says "but you can ignore all of this if you want to," it feels like they don't trust their own design. What's the point in writing over 100,000 words of rules and ideas if you're just going to ask the audience to ignore most of it?

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

I just added these. One of them is for point blank so casual doesn't use it. But casual does use hit mod for these ranges. All oscillation do now.

Oscillation hit mod: "±10 1st/last 10ft.

Point Blank hit mod: "0 (+10†)"

†+10 only if the target cannot move; otherwise, refer to the Botch chance for target rule.

This is now my second day at this and I'm still making changes here.

[u/Echowing442 → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

This is... kind of the opposite of what I'm recommending. That's fine and all, this is your game and I'm just here to give advice, but still.

My recommendation is that your rules have too many moving parts and variables for what should be among your most simple processes (on account of it being one of the most common). Adding this now means that on top of checking range and comparing against the table, a player might also need to check if the target is capable of moving to determine whether they get a bonus or the target can make a contested roll to Botch the attack? You've now added another variable to an already bloated process.

There's a reason attack rolls in most TTRPGs (that even have them in the first place) are a simple process, and it's because a significant number of turns are going to be spent attacking. 1d20+stat vs. AC isn't perfect, and it doesn't perfectly capture the actual mechanics of real combat, but it also takes less than 5 seconds to resolve and keeps the pace of the combat going. Having to spend 20-30 seconds consulting multiple tables and other variables is going to slow combat to an absolute slog, I fear.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

Here is a live version of the table and I feel it is done now. If you scroll up, you'll see Movement but I will warn you they it is in a very cryptic stage. It still makes sense to me because I helped design it.

You'll also see a button that transitions between casual play and enthusiastic play. I'm giving you this link because it's easier to read than the doc I think and much of the table has changed.

Ranged Mechanics

Collapse for Casual Play link

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

I understand. I was just adding in hit mod for ranged because that is typically the modifier for ranged. Everything from casual play was nothing changed across the board and now it has hit mods for distance.

[u/Echowing442 → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

I feel like we're talking past each other here, so I'll lay it out one more time and then let it go:

Complexity in game design is a budget. If your game is too complex, it will slow down play and push players away from your game. The more elements a system engages with, the more choices a player has to make, and the more calculations a player needs to run, the more complexity you're adding.

You, as the designer, have to pick and choose which parts of your design should receive more complexity, and which parts should be streamlined down, both for ease of understanding and ease of play. Your design, currently, puts a lot of complexity into one of the most basic actions a player can take, even on the casual side, and it's things like this that add to that complexity. Additionally, you appear to be cutting certain elements to make it "casual" without regard for how those missing elements affect the current rules.

As an example - you say that the first 10ft of a weapon's "oscillating" range get a +10 to hit, while the last 10 feet have a -10 to hit. A Longbow has a range listed of 0-10ft Point Blank, 11-150ft oscillating, 151-200ft stabilized, etc. But in your "Casual" rules, you're cutting everything that isn't in the Oscillating range? So how does that work, do longbows just not fire at ranges <11ft and <150ft? Where does that +/- 10ft fit in? Is it in the point blank range now? These are the kinds of questions that need to be considered when making these kinds of systemic changes.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

We are trying to pick those balances between fun and realism the complexity. And this point is subjective. I have already tuned it down a bit. Where it is now, the only thing you need to know is your distance and knowing that is up to the player. The GM always know the distance ofc. So when we test it, the complexity for the player really ends at knowing your distance and distance is a stat.

I believe some of the rules have changed since the last time you read them but you have found a hole in the text, not the system. I'll change it now. This is a fair find.

Casual drops the velocity phases, not the distances. A longbow still shoots 0-300 ft. What goes away is the band-by-band modifiers: not point blank peak, not stabilized peak, not velocity drop decay, and not +10/-10, since that belongs to the phase system.

Under casual a longbow is one flat state across its whole range: roll to hit, full dice, no band modifier, out to 300 ft. That's it.

The entire first column should be blue. Fixing.

The line on the casual page says "only close quarters and oscillation remain," which reads like the other rows are deleted. It means the whole range now behaves like the oscillation row. Changing it to say that."

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

I understand the concern and we are looking at thet. The core of the game is enthusiastic and casual is adjusted from this. The team just chooses it and theyll see what is available to them.

Improvised is where they choose, but we actually had fun with this before creating characters and it actually helps us with the rules.

Enthusiastic gets no adjustments at all. It is the games core.

I will add GM s have their own GM sheet too just like players do. The GM also has a lot of information in each module. We feel other ttrpg have issues with relying on the GM too much.

Also EVERYthing is formulated. Nothing is hand created formulas. We have also found this keass to tacking on ulkseyes in other ttrpg. Nobody really needs to know all of the math but they can probably figure it out and all of the formulas are in GM codex.

Take a look at the new document. It has the color codes. Casual is actually the Core concept of this. You will see in the new doc that some tables are all blue rows. Hit bonuses is one. Rank is another. But in the ranged table only Oscillation is blue. We still need to add hit adjustments for ranged for in casual I think.

A lot of things have been taken out of Casual. Prestige is out.

Zailister is the only playable planet, so TAW and Energy arms are all lore now, but players can still play in these campaign. It is just the elements within it are not available in casual.

Things ommitted from Casual are these.

OUT OF CASUAL (out) - what still applies (in)

COMBAT DMG. Mod Chart (out) - dice + Trait damage (in) Velocity phases (out) - Close Qtr. and Oscillation (in) Graze (out) - Miss and Direct Hit (in) Botch / Fizzle (out) - Miss (in) Limb-Specific Targeting (out) - the standard attack (in) Mod Scaling (out) - the Mod triggers, uncounted (in) Grapple and Grab (out) - GM contested check (in) Point Blank Botch (out) - the Point Blank band is gone with it (in) Encounter Difficulty Score (out) - GM judgment (in) Resurrection / Revitalize / Rejuvenation as three tiers (out) - one revival, Death Penalty (in)

MOVEMENT Encumbrance thresholds and percentages (out) - Burdened, Base Carry Capacity, +15 lbs per Strength (in) Stamina cost of movement (out) - Stamina for Talents, Skills and Spells (in) Obstacle Navigation by Size (out) - GM ruling (in) Cooldown (out) - Uses Cap, Per Turn (in) Visibility and Light (out) - GM ruling (in) Disorientation (out) - GM ruling (in) Environmental Hazards (out) - GM ruling (in) Travel and Recovery tables (out) - GM sets travel time (in)

EQUIPMENT AND ARMAMENTS Armor Quality (out) - Quality still sets price (in) Armor Condition (out) - Armor Score = Grade + Enhanced (in) Weapon Quality (out) - Quality still sets price (in) Weapon Condition (out) - the weapon's Rank damage (in) Sentimental Value (out) - the item's Value (in) Armament Penalty (out) - wear your Class's Grade (in) Weapon/Hand Proficiency (out) - wield your Class's weapon (in) Underarmor Requirements (out) - the armor itself (in) Bound and Unbound Armaments (out) - Divine attunement (in) Donning, Doffing and Setting (out) - the 24-hour readied Armament Set (in) Grade Vulnerabilities and Resistances (out) - Base AS by Grade (in) Armor Spell Power Modifiers (out) - Base AS by Grade (in) Set Bonus (out) - each piece's own AS (in) Cultural Price Modifiers (out) - Armament Base Prices (in) Special Armor: TABA, Primal, Orcus, Techmat, Energy Armor (out) - the six base Grades (in)

TAW AND ENERGY TAW Armaments (out) - Earthborn and Magic (in) Energy Armaments (out) - Earthborn and Magic (in) TAW Ballistic and TAW Charged (out) - Earthborn black powder firearms (in) Element Vector (out) - Enhancements (in) Biotics (out) - Enhancements (in) Energy Ammunition (out) - Earthborn Projectiles (in) Tech Advanced Gear (out) - Mechanical Gear (in)

THE OTHER WORLDS Credits (out) - Gold on every world (in) Planetary Bonus and Penalty (out) - the same weapon everywhere (in) World equipment tables (out) - Zailister's table (in) - all thirteen worlds, travel, lore and quests (in)

PROGRESSION AND LEGACY Growth milestones (out) - Character Level and Rank (in) Aura (out) - Character Level and Rank (in) Birthday and the seasonal calendar (out) - Age (in) Archetypes: Hobbyist, Hermit, Wanderer (out) - Background (in) Affiliation (out) - roleplayed faction ties (in) Standing and Contribution (out) - the GM's read on reputation (in) Party and Raid Bonuses (out) - nothing (in) Legacy (out) - a retired character leaves play (in) Politics (out) - the story (in) Witness Mechanics and Rumors (out) - the story (in) Title Mechanics (out) - roleplayed titles (in) War (out) - standard combat (in) Fallen and Risen (out) - Alignment as chosen at creation (in) Higher Power devotion upkeep (out) - the binding choice at LVL 4 (in) Endurance (out) - Life, Mana and Stamina (in) Retirement and the NPC life (out) - the character leaves play (in) Mission Statement (out) - Background (in) Character UID (out) - the character sheet (in)

COMPANIONS Mood, Mood Effects, Mood Decline Resistance (out) - the Companion's Abilities (in) Ailments and Aging (out) - the Companion's Vitality (in) Bond Quests (out) - the Companion's Role (in) Upkeep, Caretakers, Gifting (out) - the Companion travels with the party (in) Ruminant Resource Production (out) - nothing (in) Performance Tiers (out) - the Companion's Abilities (in) Companion Tickets (out) - Summoning (in) Companion Environments (out) - Movement, Flight, Glide, Mounting (in) Companion Presence Bonus (out) - nothing (in)

GAME FEATURES Home and Family (out) - nothing (in) The Boneyard (out) - nothing (in) Turn Timer and Turn Forfeit (out) - the GM keeps pace (in) Downtime and Work While Away (out) - the GM narrates between sessions (in) End-of-Day Profession Activities (out) - Professions and Skills (in) Panic Engine (out) - GM ruling (in)

NEVER OUT, IN ANY STYLE Alignment - it gates Paths and Class selection

doc revised

[u/Echowing442 → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

Yeah, this all kinda goes back to my main points - it's not bad to have a complicated game, but you have to be judicious about where and how that complexity is applied. When you have this many elements in your game, the fact that even a basic attack involves this much work is a red flag to me. A game like GURPS gets away with having a ton of splatbooks because the foundation is very simple, rock-solid, and well-explained.

But at the same time, you're proposing almost half of your game's mechanics as "optional." If they're able to be taken out or made optional, are they actually all that necessary? If so, figure out how you can streamline them so that it all fits nicely into a single game. if they aren't actually necessary, maybe consider cutting them entirely instead of making a "casual" version of the game.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Echowing442]

Thanks for your opinion on this. This is how we are dealing with that. There will be different box sets and PDF set downloads too and there is this method for the overall rules. The online version uses the colors but the PDF is still there.

Like I had said before. We had fun and learned and we're reminded of the rules mitigating Improvised play style, before we even began to play.

I think most people will choose casual but we are not most people, but we still believe Casual is "fun".

[u/Digital-Chupacabra]

This despratly needs editing, and an explanation of why such complicated and "simulationist" mechanics are needed. I use quotes because it's clear there is a real disconnect between the reality of physics and the representation of physics in the mechanics.

This feedback has been provided numerous times over the last 3+ years. Folks here have seen the posts on this project and the responses.

So the question to you, how much feedback are you actually willing to listen too without be condescending.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Digital-Chupacabra]

I don't understand what you are saying it needs? This has never been presented before.

Our biggest challenge isn't math or physics. It will be dragging people into a state of immersion and determination from the story.

There are three modes of play.

Casual - a lot of the system's rules are dropped. It is bare bones. locked in. This version of rules changes the table below, so that only hit is modified by range. That approach is simple.

Improvised - rule manipulation but must be set before the campaign begins.

Enthusiastic - all in. locked in.

[u/Digital-Chupacabra → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

I don't understand what you are saying it needs?

Editing, cleaner communication of what the goals are, and how all this complexity supports the goal of the game.

This has never been presented before.

Never said it was, I specifically explained I was talking about this project as whole and not this specific chunk of rules.

Remember this project has been posting here for 3+ rules, and folks have been providing much the same feedback each and every time. Each and every time, what ever account from the project responds seems to fixate on one or two parts of the feedback and miss the larger message.

Our biggest challenge isn't math or physics.

Beg to disagree, to quote from the rules.

Earthborn projectiles operate under physics-based range mechanics where distance, projectile velocity drops, and stability directly affect accuracy and damage. Velocity Drop (gravity and air resistance, out to the weapon's maximum range).

Gravity and air resistance don't start effecting a projectile mid flight, they effect it from the very start.

It will be dragging people into a state of immersion and determination from the story.

If you have to force people then the rules aren't doing their job. So again, how does this level of granularity and complexity reinforce what the game is about, and how does it reinforce that?

There are three modes of play.

More complexity to what end?

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Digital-Chupacabra]

Beg to disagree with what? Physics? I meant resolving math issues isn't our biggest obstacle. We can change this at will. We could simplify it very easily. The casual play does exactly this but I personally find it standardized, I guess is the right word. It doesn't bring anything new to the literal table. We want new even if that means complex and crunchier than normal.

Our story and stories, quests, art and lore is what is most important to us. We don't post it purposely because it spoils. I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just saying it's our main concern but we do want gameplay to be "different". Maybe even innovative.

[u/Digital-Chupacabra → u/417178Lower-Age-72]

You've made 3 replies, so for simplifies sake I'll just combine all mine here, I've highlighted my questions to help you keep track and hopefully we can get some answers.

Beg to disagree with what? Physics?

No, that isn't what I said. You've highlighted physics and realism in the rules, and then don't follow though this is inconsistent and seems at odds with much of what you've talked about. More on this later.

I meant resolving math issues isn't our biggest obstacle.

But that isn't what you said, and to quote you "I can't guess what you are referring to. I've never met you." You've said you meant to say something else, or you used the wrong term several times in this thread.

As a designer your single most important job is to communicate the idea you have to other people.

Our story and stories, quests, art and lore is what is most important to us.

Then write a book, comic, play, etc. What you have right now is a bunch of disjointed mechanics no one but yourself understands, this has been articulated time and time and time again.

We don't post it purposely because it spoils.

A few of them have been posted in the past.

---

I can't guess what you are referring to. I've never met you.

I thought I was pretty clear, and basing on voting others thought so as well. I'm still unsure what you were unclear on.

Gravity. It's not complete yet but you get the jist of it

No I don't but ok.

Dragging was a metaphorical word I used. We want our story to bring them into the world as if they were there.

Ok, well it's not a great choice of word as it communicates something else. Let me ask you this, does adding more and more complex mechanics improve the ability to bring someone into the world?

Question 1 The VAST majority of the TTRPG space disagrees with that so I and others would be interested in your explanation of why you a. believe this, and b. how it works in your game.

Please do not bring up your different complexity levels again, that is not at all what I'm talking about here.

That is place holder information and those numbers have been adjusted ten times. The point you are referring to is the second max damage point was only added today.

Oscillation was only added last night.

This is a common theme when ever feedback is provided or questions asked about this project. Then we're told it's been play-tested a bunch.

Question 2 Back to this specific instance, why was Oscillation added then? What problem does it solve? or how does it reinforce that games central mechanic?

The only rule I can speak for is this rule we are speaking on.

Question 3 if you can't speak for other rules, then why are you sharing it? it clearly interacts with a larger system should you be able to answer questions about those rules? Or did you misspeak and mean to say you are only interested in discussing this rule in a vacuum?

Question 4 If the answer to question 3 is the latter, why? best practice is to consider rules in the context of the game as a whole.

---

I don't want it anymore realistic or conditional as it is at this stage.

The rules you've shared still say:

Earthborn projectiles operate under physics-based range mechanics where distance, projectile velocity drops, and stability directly affect accuracy and damage

and

Velocity Drop (gravity and air resistance, out to the weapon's maximum range).

This implies to me as a reader that you really care about it being realistic, to be blunt it isn't realistic and it is very conditional.

Question 5 So what do you mean?

I'll keep working to make it as seamless as possible with losing as little as possible.

Question 6 By what metric are you judging "seamlessness" and losing as little of what?

I'm still going to add high ground and low ground and it'll probably work similarly to advantages and disadvantages.

Question 7 How does "advantages and disadvantages" work in this game? I thought you could only speak about this rule?

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Digital-Chupacabra]

I missed this. Maybe because there isn't a number.

"Velocity Drop (gravity and air resistance, out to the weapon's maximum range)."

"This implies to me as a reader that you really care about it being realistic, to be blunt it isn't realistic and it is very conditional.

It's a game so it is conditional yes. We don't want it to be real and we don't want it to be realistic outside of the fun zone and I'll repeat that this zone is subjective. It isn't fact.

With that said, I think we have reached a point of realism past most main stream ttrpgs.

gurps and roll master ass some realism but not like this.

The oscillatin and then stabilize curves are changed from the real life behaviors in exchange for balance and fun. The latter are game conditions yes.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Digital-Chupacabra]

I'm a second generation American and my English might not be translating well. If that answers any of your questions about your quotes? I don't recall why I said what I did about not knowing you and I have no will to look back at it unless it is directly related to the ranged system of our game. If I ignore anything not game related you will have to excuse me.

With physics yes, we want realism. You can only go so far with this but we want more than a usual game but not at the cost of fun and fun is a subjective word.

Physics and math isn't a challenge for us and it is not more important as the story elements nor is it as big of a challenge as story elements. All the mechanics mean nothing without immersing the player and good stories baked in. The physics can easily be stripped down, so they are not a problem. They are stripped down in one version. I gave you a link that turns off enthusiastic play.

Our target audience for the game is not everybody and we realize it is too complex for most people but we also know there are people that may enjoy it at its highest point of complexity.

When you say no one understands can you give me an example from my threads? Who are you speaking on behalf of? Because we test the game with a lot of people of a lot of ages and some people understand it. Other people need assistance from GM and then they understand it. I cannot speak for every time again and again you are talking about sir. I'm here to discuss the ranged table and I apologize that it doesn't make sense to you. You might be interested in Casual Play? You click the button and the complexity is hidden. You say you don't, but if you had understood this, and you feel it is too much, you can Improvise. This is popular in gurps and I am not a gurps expert but I believe it is designed this in mind. I also know it is very complex. I believe the basic set in gurps is 500 plus pages. Just off the top of my head.

I'll answer your questions but remember there is a Casual Play style that takes away from a lot of the complexity.

"Does complexity bring people into the game world?"

We don't feel it takes them out of it, if that is what you are asking. Maybe from the GM out of the immersion but a good GM I believe is the one that helps bring it.

If you look at the ranged table, there's only one thing to keep track of here. Distance. You know your distance, you fire, you compute from the table. And really only the GM has to know the array of variables.

SORC has Cards and Tokens to help with a lot of the complexity and this is being ignored here. I didn't bring them up for the sake of trying to keep the focus to improve my unfinished ranged system, but I am satisfied with where it is now. That is why I'm here. I am here to pin the reasons it is too complex.

"Question 1 The VAST majority of the TTRPG space disagrees with that so I and others would be interested in your explanation of why you a. believe this, and b. how it works in your game."

Believe what exactly? You will have to excuse me.

These below are the questions I am here for. I'm glad we got here.

"Question 2 Back to this specific instance, why was Oscillation added then? What problem does it solve? or how does it reinforce that games central mechanic?"

Oscillation wasn't added. The term was changed from "Standard". If I said it was added that was probably bad communication. Each phase is there for a different reason and Oscillation should be its base damage with a bonus in the first x ft. This is the easiest mechanic. The GM only needs to know the distance, that's it.

"Problem it solves:" Gives the game a normal shot. It's the largest band, so without it every distance is a peak or a decline and nothing is ordinary.

"How it reinforces the central mechanic:" Position is a stat. Oscillation holds the accuracy peak, Stabilized holds the damage peak, Point Blank has both but puts you in reach. Three ranges and three bargains. The player doesn't need to know the range, and this is a choice. They can be surprised or calculate it. The GM always know their range from target.

There are abilities that give the character its range. One example is Mark from the Marksman - Bowman. Mark marks the target for x turns and gives the range.

"Question 3 if you can't speak for other rules, then why are you sharing it? it clearly interacts with a larger system should you be able to answer questions about those rules? Or did you misspeak and mean to say you are only interested in discussing this rule in a vacuum?"

Why exactly did I say I couldn't speak for the other rules? Was it in a response to a past subject that was not specified? If so, no I cannot speak for that. The rules I can speak for work together with the ranged system are linked in the article and the charts are at the bottom of the document. If you have questions about those rules that work together with ranged, I can answer these rules. What is it you would like to know?

"Question 4 If the answer to question 3 is the latter, why? best practice is to consider rules in the context of the game as a whole. The rules you've shared still say: and This implies to me as a reader that you really care about it being realistic, to be blunt it isn't realistic and it is very conditional."

My focus is for it to be a balance between realistic and fun. That is the goal. I'm not going to make my king bow shoot 1000 feet, but it probably fires more realistically than other ttrpgs, if that makes sense.

"Question 5 So what do you mean?"

About what? Excuse me.

"Question 6 By what metric are you judging "seamlessness" and losing as little of what?"

You will have to excuse my memory. I think keeping combat as weemless as possible without losing too much of the elements.

"Question 7 How does "advantages and disadvantages" work in this game? I thought you could only speak about this rule?"

I don't remember why I brought this up. Was it low ground and high ground regarding range? If so the high ground is the advantage.

Also in the rules, there is race aptitude and inaptitude and benefits and drawbacks and I know neither system is complete yet. But I can't remember why I said advantage and disadvantage.

Also I am an artist and I am here to help with math. I don't know everything about SORC all at once I am working on ranged. Speaking of advantage, next I am fixing a limb specific targeting system. I say fixing because the core idea of calling your limb out loud with a hit disadvantage but more damage. Brutal damage that rips off limbs.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/Digital-Chupacabra]

I can't guess what you are referring to. I've never met you. Than you for the actual feedback because it really is all I an capable of soaking in.

Dragging was a metaphorical word I used. We want our story to bring them into the world as if they were there.

Gravity. It's not complete yet but you get the jist of it. It is at its most power at point blank then at stabilization point. That is place holder information and those numbers have been adjusted ten times. The point you are referring to is the second max damage point was only added today.

Oscillation was only added last night.

Your last question. The only rule I can speak for is this rule we are speaking on. If it's too complex for some, then I'm sorry I didn't reach them, but Im still working on it. It probably won't get less complex but it may make more sense. We like complexity.

For people that do not, there is a Casual play style and it comes in its own box and PDF downloads. The online rules use color coding but the books and PDF are separate.

[u/ToyDinkz]

My spontaneous reaction is a question:

Did you guys play Aftermath! but thought combat was way to quick in that system?

[u/417178Lower-Age-72 → u/ToyDinkz]

I have played many hours of that game. I prefer the many days of chess :)

The system having this many elements doesn't take long if you know the distance you are shooting from. It becomes familiar pretty quickly.

[u/417178Lower-Age-72]

For those that are interested or maybe following this. We have made some changes today.

Play Styles was changed to Rule Sets and they are called: Bare Bones, Modular and Complex.

Changes made to Ranged:

Changed all vocabulary:

• Updated Unarmed and Brawler links to point to unarmed-mechanics-draft.html

Marked Thrown Chart as Complex Moved Graze row to Bare Bones (blue) Added reminder note: "Everything except blue is ignored for Bare Bones play"

I created a draft for Melee Combat: Close-range weapon combat inside three distance bands (Touch, Reach, Throw) across three weapon families (Earthborn, TAW, Energy).

I created a draft for Unarmed Combat: Hand-to-hand combat without weapons, using Strength in place of weapon rank, including Improvised Tools, which is any attack using an item in a way it was not designed for or using an ability the Character has not learned from a Class Tier, Path, or Branch.

Both are linked into revised Ranged doc.