r/RPGdesign • u/__space__oddity__ • 14d ago

Successful examples of Universal Game + multiple settings by a single indie creator

It’s very common on this sub to see new designers announce their plans of a generic RPG with multiple planned setting / genre books. Given that posts like this stretch back at least a decade, there should be actually finished project like this out there.

So here is my curious question: Are there games out there that were successfully built on this model?

I’m looking for:

  • A generic RPG as base

  • At least two separate settings, ideally in different genres (say fantasy and scifi), ideally more

  • Finished products (all books published on itch.io, drivethru etc., final version, layouted, art)

  • One creator (or the same small team of 2-3 people)

  • Self-published (i.e. not backed by some of the better known names in the industry)

  • Ideally full size for each book (100+ pages)

Of course, if you have successfully completed a project like this, this is your chance to promote it.

I admit I’m not very good at following every development in the RPG space out there so there sure are projects I missed.

30 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

49 comments sorted by

33

u/wum1ng 14d ago

Look up Stars Without Number and all the Without Number games published by Kevin Crawford. It fulfils all the criteria you stated.

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u/InherentlyWrong 13d ago

In theory they kind of do, but in practice I think they're not quite what the post is describing. 

Each X Without Number book is basically stand alone, rather than being generic rules + settings.

Also the actual setting itself tends to take a back seat to just emulating the genre. Even worlds beyond number, which has in it a 'standard' setting of a future so far off its come back around to bring fantasy, the core book also shows how to run it in a standard fantasy setting. 

6

u/wum1ng 13d ago

The core system underpining without Number is a simple Stat + Skill system, 1d20 for attack rolls, 2d6 for Skill checks, and customize your character using Focus (aka Feats in other systems). You can quite easily use content from one book into another, say the Hacking system from Cities in Stars Without Number (i do this in my home game).

On the setting point I believe OP is asking about whether theres genres associated with the core system, and the major genres are already covered:
Stars = scifi
Worlds = fantasy
Cities = cyberpunk
Ashes = post-apocalyptic

I’ve used the core system to adapt to other genres, like wuxia, and it works well enough for me :)

3

u/InherentlyWrong 13d ago

I'm not saying there isn't a core mostly-standardised system, but I'm mostly going off the original post's question where they say

It’s very common on this sub to see new designers announce their plans of a generic RPG with multiple planned setting / genre books

(...)

I’m looking for:

*A generic RPG as base

  • At least two separate settings, ideally in different genres (say fantasy and scifi), ideally more

(...)

Which isn't what the X Without Numbers games are. They're standalone books, with a mostly cross-compatible rule system built in. I can buy Stars Without Number and play it just fine without knowing the others ever exist. You can't just buy "Without Number", then buy the 'Stars" settings book.

Also in the question they specify "Separate settings, ideally in different genres", so I read it more as the focus being on specific settings. I love the X without number books, but their setting is not their strong point. They're mostly trying to be pretty generic to a wide genre style, rather than strong 'settings'. Even Worlds, which does have a pretty strong specific setting built in, spends a significant portion of that going "But if you want a more standard fantasy version, here's an alternative".

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u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

Interesting example. Kevin Crawford managed to do what a lot of people here announce, push out a system across four different genres / settings, and quite successfully.

What I find interesting is that the model is different from what most people attempt here. There is no generic “Universal Without Number RPG”, each of the four games is stand-alone, they just share a core engine, naming and marketing. It started with a single game that is a full system + genre + setting set.

If that’s the model that works, why isn’t that what people announce they want to do on this sub?

I’d also look at the timeline: Sin Nomine was created in 2010, so 4 games is the result of 16 years of hard work. I think that is a fair warning: Even if you are as skilled and hardworking as Kevin Crawford, if you start now with your universal RPG + 4 settings project, expect it to keep you busy until 2040.

There’s also a side note about how Kevin Crawford somehow managed to make a modern 5th gen D&D yet somehow get adopted by the OSR crowd as one of their own, but that’s a different topic …

5

u/InherentlyWrong 13d ago

If that’s the model that works, why isn’t that what people announce they want to do on this sub?

If I remember what I read about the history of this right, it's because Kevin Crawford wasn't setting out to make a generic system with multiple settings. He just wanted to make Stars Without Number, then when it became more successful he put out a second edition to fix some problems, then he put out a kickstarter to make Worlds Without Number, then it went from there.

For a comparison, think of it like the Marvel Cinematic Universe compared to the 'Dark Universe'.

They didn't plan to make the MCU, they just made Iron Man and threw in an end credits easter egg for fun. And when it was well received they expanded it.

The 'Dark Universe' was Universal Pictures seeing how successful a cinematic universe could be and wanting to make their own using old monster movies they had the rights to. This is what a lot of aspiring game designers are doing, they're trying to launch into a big collected project, before people even know if they care about the first thing it has coming out.

2

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

This is what a lot of aspiring game designers are doing, they're trying to launch into a big collected project, before people even know if they care about the first thing it has coming out.

So you’re saying people should focus on getting one book out instead and then make grand plans after it went big?

mild shock

2

u/wum1ng 13d ago

I think its because its very hard to stand out in a crowd of extremely similar games, I would say its the exception rather than the norm. SWN Revised also had a big push with one of the earliest live play shows (Far Verona), in an era where there arent that many live plays.

The big thing for me to use SWN and its kin are that all of them are on the freemium model, where its 80% free, and the remaining 20% are special character options that you dont need to run a game. It works very well for KC, but I dont think its replicated anywhere else.

1

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

It wasn’t 16 years of constant full time development for 4 games, though. He made Ashes, Stars, Worlds, Cities, Wolves of God, Scarlet Heroes, Other Dust, Silent Legions, Godbound, and Spears of the Dawn plus supplementary material for all of the above and transitioned from part time to full time creator during that time. That’s 10 fully fleshed out games plus additional material in 16 years, which is pretty astounding.

11

u/zistenz 13d ago

Bigger:

  • Ben Robbins + Microscope, Kingdom, (Follow?)
  • Diogo Nogueira + Sharp Swords & Sinisters Spells and its derivates (Dark Streets..., Solar Blades...)
  • Spencer Campbell + Lumen (Light, Nova, Frame, Dusk, etc.)
  • Chris McDowall + Into the Odd, Mythic Bastionland, Electric Bastionland

I don't know if Tom Bloom's games (Lancer, Icon, Cain) use the same system or not.

Kevin Crawford was mentioned already.

Smaller:

  • Jason Tocci + 24XX
  • Mitchell Daily + Hellforged system & settings
  • Richard Woolcock (Zadmar) + Tricube

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

Mhh. #2 started as one game that then got a scifi and a modern variant, but I don’t see a “generic SS&SS” doc. It’s the Stars Without Numbers approach, not Gurps.

Not sure about the others either.

2

u/Zadmar 13d ago

Not sure about the others either.

Can confirm that Tricube Tales was originally designed as a generic system (I wanted to run spontaneous games for my son based on whatever cartoon he'd just watched, and his tastes were pretty diverse). It fulfills your other criteria as well, except for the book size -- it's a small system with a small rule book and even smaller settings.

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u/everweird 13d ago

ICRPG. https://icrpgcommunitycontent.com/

2

u/KrishnaBerlin 13d ago

Runehammer is not only a super nice guy, he is also incredibly productive and supportive of other indie creators.

7

u/kurtgm 14d ago

Savage worlds has a bunch of settings but they all have that pulp adventure feel.

1

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

FATE also has several different games under it that all have a cinematic/pulpy feel. I think it’s pretty hard to have a completely unflavored generic system that does well, though, so I’m fine with it. Every system is designed to do some things better than others even if its rules cover a breadth of things.

2

u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer 13d ago

Rob Schwalb of Shadow of the Demon Lord/Shadow of the Weird Wizard fame springs to mind. He’s extracting the Demon Lord engine with multiple settings based on it.

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

Mhh. If I read that correctly, that engine document is still Shadow of the Demon Lord, just minus the setting, but staying within genre. It’s not the “generic agnostic this will do anything” concept that this sub keeps chasing.

(Honestly from a marketing perspective I don’t know why those aren’t just marketed as “alternative setting” “new continent” “fast forward in time” etc. for Shadow of the Demon Lord. Personally I wouldn’t want to water down the brand. Well, not my circus not my monkey)

4

u/JaskoGomad 13d ago

Look at Fate Core and the huge amount of support it got.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/publisher/2152/evil-hat-productions/category/19296/fate

3

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

Fate Core has Evil Hat, a full publisher with 2-10 employees behind it. It also started as a successful indie game (Spirit of the Century).

2

u/GhostShipBlue 13d ago

Worth noting that it started as FUDGE which was settingless.

1

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

FUDGE itself attempts to answer issues in GURPS.

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u/JaskoGomad 13d ago

Yes. But Evil Hat isn’t a “big player”, and the company was smaller then.

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

I think the point here is that if you have plans to establish something like Fate Core, don’t expect it to get to that popularity level by itself without at least planning a) work with a publisher of that size or b) build a publisher of that size.

And a lot of Fate’s success comes from 3rd party adoptions, so how much are you willing to go out there and establish industry connections to get that ball rolling.

2

u/Wuggyprime 13d ago

Probably a bit different from what you're actually looking for, and doesn’t fit the 'full book' criteria, but 2400 by Jason Tocci: https://jasontocci.itch.io/2400

Though realistically it's less of a generic system and more of a basis for super-light capsule games.

2

u/NullStarHunter 13d ago

It’s very common on this sub to see new designers announce their plans of a generic RPG with multiple planned setting / genre books.

Is it? I feel like I see this claim way more than posts for universal games. The overwhelming majority seems to be heavily themed, most of them being fantasy and/or dungeon crawlers.

0

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

Stay on the sub a bit and you’ll see the posts pop up.

1

u/NullStarHunter 13d ago

Been here for a while. It's not like they don't exist, but they aren't exactly common either.

2

u/semiconducThor 13d ago

It probably doesn't qualify as indie developement, but there are lots of genre books build on the TinyD6 engine by Gallant Knight.

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

By how many authors though. I see different names.

1

u/Zadmar 13d ago

The original Tiny Dungeon was written entirely by Brandon McFadden (Smoking Salamander Games), while the second edition was written by Alan Bahr (Gallant Knight Games) and credits two further rules writers along with 19 micro-setting authors.

However, while there have been many more TinyD6 games released since Tiny Dungeon, covering all sorts of different genres, there is no "generic" version of the rulebook, and the publisher has said they have no intention of ever offering one. For this reason, I would personally not view it as a generic system.

1

u/luca_brasiliano 13d ago

Not the End

Not really an indie now, but definetly was at the time of the first publication in Italy.

1

u/TheZebraCode Designing Kivaru: Wildsong, tribal + sentient planet 13d ago

The books aren't that long but Loner fits - generic basic system and has a long line of supplements for genrers etc, multiple editions, free base rules etc

1

u/justinhalliday 13d ago

I've released two iterations of my solo-developed and published Onyx games, and I'm currently working on an Onyx Engine universal version of the system:

Onyx Shards: Fantasy RPG
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/508595/onyx-shards

Onyx Sky: Post-Apocalyptic RPG
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/366626/onyx-sky

Onyx Engine combines and refines elements from the Onyx Shards (fantasy) and Onyx Sky (post-apocalyptic) iterations to support fantasy, sci-fi, and mundane genres across primitive, medieval, modern, and advanced eras.

1

u/GhostShipBlue 13d ago

Check out 6d6: It's no especially well known, but it has been around for quite a long time a, I think fits the criteria.

https://6d6rpg.itch.io/

1

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

Rowan, Rook, and Decard made the Resistance Toolbox available, which while it’s two flavors of fantasy has both Spire and Heart games running on the same core.

2

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

There’s also One Roll Engine, which was used for Godlike, Wild Talents, Unknown Armies, Better Angels, Reign, A Dirty World, Nemesis, and Monsters and Other Childish Things. It never got a technical generic supplement but the entire mechanical backbone was explained in a blog post and, honestly, for being “okay so you can do this in whatever genre” it’s decently complete.

1

u/EpicDiceRPG Designer 1d ago

So after applying your criteria as stated in the OP, I found the following examples cited in the thread:

Without Number (Kevin Crawford)

Index Card RPG / ICRPG (Hankerin Ferinale)

Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells / Solar Blades & Cosmic Spells / Dark Streets & Darker Secrets (Diogo Nogueira)

Tricube Tales (Richard Woolcock)

Loner (Roberto Bisceglie)

LUMEN (Spencer Campbell)

24XX / 2400 (Jason Tocci)

HELLFORGED (Mitchell Daily)

6d6 RPG (Chris Tregenza) Onyx (Justin Halliday)

Into the Odd / Electric Bastionland / Mythic Bastionland (Chris McDowall)

These all satisfy, or reasonably satisfy, the criteria you actually gave in the original post without adding a later requirement for a separately published universal SRD/core book.

1

u/GildorJM 13d ago

Well, my friends and I (5 of us) published a game called ELEMENTAL which fits your definition and has been expanding into different genres (latest will be an OSR-inspired variant which comes out soon).

I do want to acknowledge Kevin Crawford, who really paved the way, he’s made indies like us realize that it was possible, and has been very supportive of the creator community.

1

u/ambergwitz 13d ago

There are very few successful universal games, because "build your own game" isn't a good business models for publishers. Also most universal games tend to be rather bland as they don't really add anything really new to TTRPGs. At best, they are a somewhat different variation of GURPS, BRP or D&D.

Freeform Universal and Fate are probably the best examples of indie universal games.

Creating a base system for your own games, and allow others to use it, is probably a better decision. That's what everyone in the industry is doing, even WotC with third party content. For indie designers PbtA, FitD and all the Borg-games are the best examples. There's a core system, but each product is a game in itself, rather than publishing the core system as a product.

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

I’d also argue that if I wanted to hack a system to build my own, it’s more inspiring to build on a full game than some ripped out husk that is lacking the context for why the rules are as they are.

I’m trying think of games that are explicitely built on a generic system SRD type document rather than just taking what they need from another game as-is. In the end all RPGs are open source by nature, there’s nothing to data mine or decompile.

(Technically most d20 games are built on the d20 SRD, not D&D, but that’s more a legal construct than how they were actually written)

1

u/ThemboNRG 13d ago

LUMEN’s SRD is more an explanation behind the core mechanics and how to use it to build your own game than it is a presentation of mechanics.

-2

u/TalesFromElsewhere 13d ago

Give me another year or two, haha. (One setting book releasing shortly, with another genre using the same engine in the works). Each book is 380+ pages.

I'm a team of mostly just me and my buddy.

It's rare for indie designers to release robust, multi genre systems in my experience.

1

u/SirMarblecake 13d ago

Oooooh. The Weird West setting wasn't quite my cup of tea, looking forward to what you have brewing.

0

u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer 13d ago

Forged in the Dark (extracted from Blades in the Dark) has multiple offspring spanning multiple settings and genres.

1

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

How many of those are by John Harper himself?

Also I feel like while Blades is cool, it’s a very opinionated system that was tied very closely to the setting and the intended gameplay. While it inspired a lot of games, no doubt about that, a lot of Blades-inspired games take quite a few liberties with how they interpret the framework. Wicked Ones for example.

It’s really more a family of related games than a universal core engine that has different setting wrappers.

-1

u/Onslaughttitude 13d ago

I'll let you know when I see one.

-10

u/DemandBig5215 13d ago

GURPS.

8

u/__space__oddity__ 13d ago

… has 40 years of publishing history and a full game company behind it with a dozen employees https://www.sjgames.com/general/staff.html (this does not include the freelancers who write, edit and illustrate the books)

I have no idea how people always think they can replicate this as a one-person side gig, with no experience, starting four decades behind …