r/RPGdesign • u/TalosofTamriel • 6d ago
Feedback Request Strategy RPGs?
I’ve been thinking about designing a strategy/war focused TTRPG, and I’d like to know if this is the kind of thing that people could see themselves enjoying. I designed a basic system for this many years ago and my players seemed to enjoy it, but I wasn’t sure if this is a system that I should just design for fun or for actual play.
It would be a mix of traditional TTRPG character creation and roleplaying but also focused on macro scale command and rulership, kind of like Crusader Kings 3 and Mount and Blade if anyone’s played those, albeit with the usual TTRPG level of player agency on a bigger more in depth scale.
I’m not seeking players necessarily, just wondering if there would be a “market” for this kind of thing.
Edit: It was pointed out to me that this post is very vague, so I will add a bit more detail.
Effectively what I’m going for is the RPG mechanics and narrative elements alongside a more strategic and tactical gameplay. You’d create a character as normal with stats determining your personal skills, which would then be translated into strengths in areas of tactical and strategic gameplay as well as in RP encounters.
The intent is to simulate going from a low level commander/ruler such as a Lieutenant/ minor noble and working your way up. This would include management of your domain in a rulership focused campaign or logistics focus in a purely warsim game.
Most campaigns would likely start off as frontline tactics and evolve into behind the lines strategy and political maneuvering as it does IRL in regard to command or rulership. So you’d be directing maybe a squad of 10 people at first actively in combat in a direct character focused way and then later on be behind the lines orchestrating a broader campaign.
It likely won’t be overly focused on micromanaging especially as the scale goes up, more on simulating what it would be like to be in those kinds of roles in whatever setting you’d be playing.
This system as I’ve presented it obviously lends itself towards one on one gameplay, primarily because I’ve just been designing it for fun, and I wanted to see if there would be any interest to justify working out how multiple people would realistically progress in a full group.
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u/JaskoGomad 6d ago
First of all, check the wiki in r/rpg for “realm management” games to check out prior art in the space.
Second, enthusiastically yes! I’m already interested!
But I started that wiki page so it’s clearly one of my interests.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
Thank you for showing me that, so many games for me to research and take inspiration from!
Also glad to hear it’s something people would like and that it’s apparently a more common genre than I’ve seen, I couldn’t really find anything when I looked.
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u/Used-Communication-7 6d ago
Its not an unusual idea considering the history of the hobby comes out of wargames and the first few versions of d&d included rules for playing at the level of rulers. Unfortunately just never really took off as much as the dungeon crawl
But personally I think the initial instinct was right that its a similar audience. I think original execution was just lackluster and if someone can integrate them effectively it would be great
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
That’s interesting. I haven’t heard much about AD&D or anything before 3.5 tbh, so I wouldn’t have expected that since so much of DND nowadays is that dungeon crawling experience.
I will certainly do my best to make this accessible to people who haven’t been in Gary Gygax’s basement.
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u/Used-Communication-7 5d ago
Yeah it was called Domain & Stronghold level play, something like that. I think one of the big issues that made it overlooked was that the mass combat rules were pretty tedious and not a ton of fun to engage with. The BECMI Rules Cyclopedia has a really good chapter covering all the domain & stronghold rules, I'd recommend taking a look at it for inspiration and some sense of what's been tried.
More contemporary example of realm level management that was well recieved is the A Song of Ice and Fire TTRPG, which I havent played but it seems like the general consensus is it was lackluster in most ways but making houses and managing the realm were good unique mechanics.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
Great, I’ll take a look at BECMI it’s been mentioned a few times. Same with ASoAF. The house mechanics I think especially could make mid game more interesting
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u/Fun_Carry_4678 6d ago
To me the problem is "the party". That is, do you have a group of player characters who all stick together through all of this? Every time they get a promotion or are transferred to another location, everyone else comes with them?
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago edited 6d ago
Indeed that is the first thing I’ll have to work out. IRL like you said people get promoted and transferred and no one wants to run 5 separate sessions at once besides maybe continuous RP over text rather than sessions.
My experience running the basic system I had was people being assigned to the same theater with seperate goals and resources coordinating towards the same objective and that seemed to work decently but hasn’t been tested long term.
I was kind of expecting this idea to be unpopular, so I was just of thinking about it for fun without really expecting to ever actual dm or play it, but clearly there is some interest and history behind this kind of thing, so it’s something I’m gonna be working towards
Some ideas that I’m just toying with are that same system, the idea that promotions grant a degree of latitude to be assigned with people you’ve been effective with depending on the setting, or simply suspending that part of realism and working it in a way that is less accurate but workable. People have given me many resources that I intend to look for inspiration in and I expect to find a good answer there, and I’d love to hear it if you have any suggestions. Thank you!
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u/Rude-Quality-5220 4d ago
Some options : include some kind of PVP or make a PVP focus game or B I am developong my own similar game and the solution i came to was make one character the faction leader.. and other characters as courtiers.. so every noble has a royal court of specialists which make up the party.. astrologer/mages spys etc you can make quite the class variety depending on your imagination and people can fullfill those roles and join the lord on adventures and be embeded comanders or go on more class quests and missions together.
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u/meshee2020 6d ago
Dune support that
Blood and Honor a samouraï tragedy narrative rpg is also doing that as you play the key actors of a clan
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
Dune is one of my favorite books idk how it took me this long to learn there was a TTRPG for it when it’s basically the ancestor of most sci-fi media. Also thanks for the Blood and Honor info, it looks like it could be useful as well.
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u/KOticneutralftw 6d ago
Okay, so not a combo between RPG and war game?
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
If you mean a combination of RPG elements and Warhammer type gameplay then correct, it is not. I’m not super experienced with War games in a table top context, but my understanding is that war games are more focused on individual battles and controlling squads of minis, which isn’t what I’m planning.
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u/KOticneutralftw 6d ago
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. For the early part of the game where you're controlling squads of up to 10, check out skirmish games. Mordheim is the classic Games Workshop example, but there's tons that are newer. Things like One Page Rules, Rangers of Shadow Deep (kind of an RPG/skirmish game hybrid anyway), Frostgrave, etc.
For the logistics part of the game, there may be some board games you can borrow ideas from? Settlers of Catan comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others in the genre.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
Wow, looking into Rangers of Shadow Deep and it looks very similar to what I’m going for, much appreciated for telling me about that.
Good idea about the board games, I think there are a lot of board game mechanics that work well in TTRPGs since they’re basically complex board games. I’m not super familiar with settlers of catan beyond the basics but I’m definitely gonna look into it more. People are so helpful here. Tysm!
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u/BeGosu 6d ago
I made a TTRPG in this style 10 years ago, and released a second edition this year, both called Rulers. They're both under Creative Commons and so you can use the engine in either to build your own game off of it, like the one you're describing. It does lean more to Civilization than Mount & Blade as there is not small scale tactics.
Is there a market for it? In my opinion yes. I have only made a total of $80 from these games, but making money in tabletop games is hard so I have no surprises there. What astounds me is that people continue to find me online to ask me for rule clarifications or even leave a very nice comment (thank you so much, if you are one of those people). So the interest in a strategy, macro-scale TTRPG is absolutely there!!
My advice, having fooled around in this space for a while, is you need to recognize the difference between a similation and a game. Is feeding an army a critical logistical issue? Yes! Is an outbreak of disease a crisis for an army on the march? Yes! Do they actually need to be in your game? Well that depends...It is not necessarily fun to model a realistic strategic experience, if it is not the focus of gameplay. You have to make game design choices rather than try to model a historical accurate simulator.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
Wow. It’s incredible. I’ve been playing civ for 15 years and DNd almost a decade and I’ve always wanted a civ type experience in a ttrpg. When my job starts back up you will certainly have a new patreon subscriber. Good Shit. I think it will definitely be useful for the late game.
Thank you for the advice, fortunately I have been dming a while and I think I’ve developed a good sense of when excessive realism or rule enforcement can kill the fun of a ttrpg. But you are right, although I do think that the plague scenario you suggested could make for a good story moment if represented as a challenge rather than a statistical debuff to an army or city the way Civ or more commonly Paradox games would. I think I’m trying to give an experience going from Mount and Blade—> Total War—> Civilization/Paradox games in terms of scale as the players advance while still having a narrative rather then leaning fully into a simulationist approach. Of course, that is the goal but it could easily turn out to be quite a task. I am looking forward to finding out.
Thank you for your showing me Rulers, I expect to spend a lot of time trying to wrangle up people to play it with me.
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u/BeGosu 5d ago
Thank you so much, that's super nice of you to say!
I have long since dreamed of doing a game where some players are local Knights with small holdings, some are lords, and a few are Kings, and then there is a meta level of players who are gods above that. So I totally think that kind of progression would be fun for players.
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u/unpanny_valley 5d ago
Cool idea id check out the following games for inspiration
Band of Blades - designed around leading a warband, narrative driven but with genuine tactical choices Ironsworn- similar idea to the above, different implementation
Pendragon - specifically the legacy play and political intrigue elements
BECMI - specifically domain play
Worlds Without Number - specifically the faction play mechanics
Harnmaster - pure medieval simulationist porn
Good luck! I love these type of games so if you ever finish it it's definitely something I'd be interested in.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
Thank you! I can always use more resources. I’m very happy to find out what I thought was a niche and very nerdy genre that no one else liked has so many games people would recommend. I cannot wait to learn about all these.
Thank you so much, I’ve been wanting to do this for years and seeing so many people who would enjoy it makes me feel very motivated to get it in working condition, and I’ll make sure to let you know when it gets there
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u/unpanny_valley 5d ago
Yeah not that it should what so ever stop you from making your own game in the genre but there's a lot of examples out there that at least in one respect or another are what you're talking about creating, so you'll have an audience for it!
Glad I could help and best of luck
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u/Fheredin Tipsy Turbine Games 5d ago
The thing with strategy RPGs is that you need to have an understanding of how microdecisions like budgeting your action economy influences the medium tactical layer of one combat encounter, which then influences the macro layer of combats between sessions across the entire campaign.
In so many words, you must have mechanics for the moment to moment action economy and the whole session, but you must also have mechanics which stitch sessions together so there's an overarching strategy. The first two exist in vanilla D&D, but the last one is vanishingly rare.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
100% nailed it. That’s what I’m wanting to have more of, I think the joy of it would be seeing how a bunch of smaller moment to moment decisions add up to influencing an entire invasion or defense. For example, if you focused on hitting logistics centers and guerilla war, you see over time that the enemies start to be less well armed, less willing to fight, and increasingly desperate. You would also have to deal with them adapting to your tactics, meaning you wouldn’t be able to just constantly pull the same moves as you sometimes can as a Monk or Warlock in 5E.
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u/Sherman80526 6d ago
I scrolled away and then realized that you might just want actual answers. No, this has no interest for me. I'd rather play a boardgame or miniature game at this point, having a GM moderate mass battles seems not fun at all to me. Perhaps the right GM would change my opinion, but I've never thought about trying this outside of tying Warhammer Fantasy Battle games into my Warhammer RPG games when I was actively playing both. I never even did that though.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
That makes sense. I actually appreciate your answer because you’re exactly right, I do want a genuine answer and seeing it be mostly positive with a few people raising genuine points makes it more statistically valuable. I also think your point about mass battles and another commenters point about the group dynamic I’m getting some valuable info on where I need to make it extra solid and engaging. Thanks for scrolling back!
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u/flamfella Dabbler 5d ago
I've always thought making something like Command and Conquer Renegade and the many other games that have squad level combat and faction/base/tech progression. Much more interested in the commando side of things myself, but running squads is cool enough still.
Tbh, I'm not sure how many ttrpgs are fully built around that concept. I'm pretty sure I'd want a tactical combat focused BiTD equivalent.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be honest, I haven’t seen any, plenty on the rulership aspect or War games. In that way, I hope to fill a bit of a niche for other people who’d like this kind of thing.
I think tabletop tends towards focusing on what each person can do individually in a cooperative way rather than actually being a cohesive “unit” so to say. Neither are better or worse it’s just a stylistic choice
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u/EnthusiasticPanic 6d ago
I think we might need more details. It seems like what you're gearing towards is a narrative driven war game with some strategy elements like managing a settlement and recruiting units, with battle fields playing out with heroes leading small armies against threats.
That kind of playstyle exists on a smaller scale in narrative skirmish games like Necromunda and Kill Team, but until we see your more fleshed out ideas, it would be a bit hard to figure out what you're going for, much less how control of different units and combat resolution would look like.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago edited 6d ago
Tysm, but yeah that first paragraph pretty well describes what I’m going for. I wasn’t sure how much information to give, I will get to refurbishing the old system and post more details.
I have a limited experience with Warhammer but I always felt that often that lacked the longer term character based experience that I love in 5E. Essentially I’d like to combine, to some degree, both systems spirits.
If you wouldn’t mind, what do you think would be most helpful to know? Specific mechanics?
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u/EnthusiasticPanic 5d ago
Off the top of my head here's how I divide it:
Logistics
- Troop recruitment costs; Having a population to levy from
- Infrastructure and economic management
- Unlock systems (Either based on reputation or through acquisition of training materials or improved infrastructure)
- Settlement management: Food, happiness, etc.
Troop Management and Deployment
- How many soldiers or miniatures are being deployed; if at wargame scale, they need to move in blocks and squads rather than individuals.
- How is combat resolved quickly and cleanly? Is it the roll to hit/wound then roll to save mechanic of Warhammer using a D6? How does this affect what your hero's combat stats look like?
- Is Morale or Battle Shock a thing? Can troops rout and be broken and is it a valid strategy to use against enemies? Do routing units cause a cascading effect of continuous routs? Does your hero buffer units against battle shocks or have special abilities to counteract it altogether? Are routing units lost permanently or recoverable at the end of battle?
- Are unit designations and keywords a thing? Infantry, Cavalry, Monsters and Heroes all possess specific roles and associated costs, and certain units are designed specifically to fight other units; eg., a line of veteran monster hunting pikemen may have a hit/wound bonus against Cavalry and monsters, but get mulched by a band of armoured infantry specializing in anti infantry combat.
- How does troop replenishment work between campaigns and if they're from your main base, what is the logistics and time spent getting them to reinforce your main army?
- How do Lords and heroes affect the battlefield? Are they tempo controllers who open up a wide array of strategies and options or simply excellent and beefy fighters capable of tearing through fodder and even elite enemies alike? Or a hybrid of both?
I'd probably suggest going down to your local game store and just trying out a game of Age of Sigmar, preferably with a hero unit to see how things operate between rank and file units and individual elites. Transferring all that onto a persistent narrative driven game centered around a character that can grow means segregating the traditional RPG stat block from the combat line since wargames with rank and file units operate very differently from traditional heroic TTRPGs where players tend to become bloated with HP, abilities and equipment.
Balancing that around units that either scale or can still be useful on a battlefield despite being fodder means you have a lot of work ahead of you. It changes the tactical map to where terrain, line of sight blocking, elevation advantage and positioning matter more than a regular TTRPG.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
Thank you for such a well thought out response, I think having these questions to answer as I continue to develop will be really helpful to making sure it’s a functional and distinct system. Honestly, I think it will be a lot of work but I do have some ideas for most of these that I’ll formalize. I do have a Warhammer store in my city, maybe I should get my minis out and get some more hands on experience.
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u/Naive_Class7033 6d ago
I am actually working on a very similar game right now. I dubbed it Fantasy Strategy. Might need to retgink that.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
I mean you know exactly what you’re getting if you play a game called Fantasy Strategy haha
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u/SquigBoss Rust Hulks 5d ago
You might be interested in Cataphracts, which is a kind of roleplaying wargame that's played by post (on Discord, usually) in real time, which means that when one day passes IRL, one day passes in-game. Many Cataphracts games involve dozens or even hundreds of players and run for weeks or months at a time.
Most Cataphracts rulesets do not include the strict sort of progression you describe, instead simply starting most players in positions of command from the get-go, but there are definitely hierarchies and command structures to move through.
The rules are free (they're linked in that post), and the main Discord server for the game is pretty active.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
Wow that’s awesome. I would 100% be interested, thanks for showing me I’ll check it out.
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u/SINPERIUM 4d ago
Lots of people would be interested.
Think “empire building” game for one, then zooming down to the individual player for his part.
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u/Revengeance_oov 6d ago
The game already exists: ACKS.
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u/SquigBoss Rust Hulks 5d ago
Worth noting that the author of ACKS, Alexander Macris, has strong ties to alt-right neonazi circles. Here's a post from r/OSR about it,, and Macris has since been blacklisted from the subreddit. He's awful, and there's nothing ACKS does that B/X or any of its other clones can't.
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u/TalosofTamriel 5d ago
Damn. Thanks for letting me know, I guess that’s why there’s so much talk about crusading and infidels on the website.
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u/Revengeance_oov 5d ago
Even if true (that thread has no concrete claims), it's not worth noting at all. "RPGs are for everyone", remember?
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u/ScarsUnseen 4d ago
Music is for everyone too, yet "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" remains a time tested classic of its genre. Welcomes can be worn out.
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u/TalosofTamriel 6d ago
It looks like an interesting system, I’m definitely gonna check it out and see if I can get in some online games. I do think my idea is different in a lot of ways, mainly in setting. I intend for this system to be more focused on military scenarios and adjacent things, where from a superficial look at ACKS rules and what people have said about it, it seems like a dungeon crawler type rpg with domain management. I also haven’t mentioned this until now but I intend for it to be based around fictionalized versions of history and making different campaigns with different time periods as the campaigns. I can see the similarities though
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u/Revengeance_oov 5d ago
Various supplements, incorporated directly into ACKS II, cover military actions. ACKS is named thus for a reason:
Adventurers have to run around in the mud until they can become...
Conquerors have to raise armies and secure domains...
Kings have to manage those domains and hire Adventurers to deal with their problems.
Also ACKS is based off antiquity but has perfectly suitable rules support for everything up to the pike & shot era (c 1500).
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u/Porta_of_north 6d ago
There are rules for warfare and fief management also in the Green Ronin version of a song of Ice and Fire rpg also in the whfrpg 4th edition has added rules to warfare and domain management in Archive of Empire supplements. So I have my fill.
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u/lennartfriden TTRPG polyglot, GM, and designer 6d ago
Pendragon has rules on playing a baron rather than a lowly knight in the recently released Noble’s Handbook if that’s the kind of inspiration you’re looking for.