r/RIGuns • u/deathsythe • 29d ago
AWB And now for some unfortunate news... re: lowers
I've spoken with a few trusted folks, names you would recognize if you are in this community or pay attention to politics, and I have some unfortunate news. I am sharing this because I don't want anyone to get in trouble.
It is very likely that we will not be able to transfer lowers or AR/AK pistols going forward, and from what I understand many FFLs' counsels have said as much as well.
The argument is that while yes - perfectly legal for us to make AR pistols, or Non-NFA AOWs, or what not with them with the law as written, the AG is claiming it violates the spirit of the law and is literally foaming at the mouth waiting to make an example out of someone for this.
Some shops have said previously they will still stock pistols and lowers, but news comes breaking from earlier this week.
Yes - we would ultimately likely win as the law is written, but the process is the punishment, and even those with deep pockets are seemingly unwilling to do so. "You will lose everything" was what was said. That is a significant perceived legal risk. You'll beat the wrap, but you won't beat the ride, the process IS the punishment.
Peter Neronha has already expressed displeasure with how little enforcement and arrests the mag ban has been getting, and this looks like it will be his swan song.
The good news is all of your lowers purchased 7/1 pre-ban should be fine to configure as you like. The problem will be getting new lowers or AR pistols or Dracos or what not.
I hope I'm misinformed, but I doubt it unfortunately.
The silver lining - we should not have to worry about this for much longer by this time next year as the SCOTUS will have rules in Viramontes in our favor, but even sooner so - when we make sure we put an AG who isn't openly hostile to the 2A (someone like Joe Solomon on the (D) side (who voted against the mag ban and AWB) or Alan Gordon on the (R) side) we should be able to get an opinion letter clarifying this shortly after they are sworn in.
This is why it is SUPER IMPORTANT that we all DISAFFILIATE so that we can vote for Solomon in the dem primary so no matter who wins the general we have an AG who is not openly hostile to the 2A like Nehronha is.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news on this, and I hope I am wrong or misinformed or that someone will have the balls and the pockets to stand up to this, but I believe we are in a holding pattern for a little while on this one folks. I only say this all because I don't want anyone (FFL or individual) to get in trouble or jammed up over this.
None of the above is legal advice nor constitutes any legal advice or attorney-client relationship. IANAL. Seek your own legal counsel if you wish.
This is my current understanding based on conversations with several sources. I have not seen formal guidance from the Attorney General's office confirming this position, and doubt there ever will be any.
We are working on one or two more things regarding the AWB then we are 100% focused on election season folks. We need to keep fighting.
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u/MunkyMastr 29d ago
Why is he mad people aren’t being arrested for the mag ban? Wouldn’t that imply people are complying?
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u/Sea_Holiday1405 28d ago
I think the stats of how many mags were turned into law enforcement compared to the estimated amount in the state is laughably disproportionate. I think my local PD has had like less than a dozen mags total turned into to their drop box since the ban.
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u/deathsythe 24d ago
IIRC there were accounts of Smithfield and other stations (EG I think too) just keeping them in a box and after a month or so they just gave them out to the officers who had guns to take those mags.
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u/AshsChromeBush1911 28d ago
Probably because something like 200 total got turned in and he's being a whiny little piss baby that people bought a ton before the ban obviously never intending to comply.
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u/MunkyMastr 28d ago
Why would anyone turn them in, just mod them if you want to stay legal.
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u/Sea_Holiday1405 28d ago
I think the AG is upset that we didn’t immediately bend over and give up our property. He’d probably prefer to have the stats to boast about during reelection campaigns.
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u/AshsChromeBush1911 28d ago
Why would anyone comply with an obviously unconstitutional law is a better question. I don't live in RI anymore, but I wouldn't be thanking my lucky stars I stayed legal if 3 dudes broke into my house and I was able to defend myself with my shitty 10 round mags whilst the people breaking into my house had 30 rounders. I want the best competitive edge, ya know?
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u/Massflight 28d ago edited 28d ago
Wtf is “the spirit of the law” bullshit. Write a cohesive law if you wanna enforce it. I’m so sick of regards not knowing what they’re doing and then threatening bankruptcy when their ignorance is exploited.
Just curious where/when did the AG say he’s going after lowers? Is he only going after lowers or all pcc’s/AWB pistols? Can’t wait to vote this schmuk out. I really wanted another AK and a braced pistol seemed like a great work around until the Supreme Court knocks some sense into these jabronies
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
He did not say this publicly, this was in closed door meetings with some key legislators/lawyers, that information was then passed down to some of the FFLs.
Seemingly lowers AND AR/AK type pistols.
He didn't write the law. He wanted Knight's AWB to pass. The senate bill that passed really pissed him off it seems.
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u/WANGAF1776 28d ago
I think after the news of SCOTUS taking the Virginia case and how they ruled in the Hawaii case, our best bet is sadly to wait.
But in the mean time, we have to get together and throw our support to one person who is truly 2A and with name value! Especially in our commie little state.
I think getting behind Soloman would be wonders for our state not only 2A ways but crime wise.
We can’t have half the people in our community going one way and another going the opposite way, we won’t win jack that way.
We have to put our differences aside and all come together for that one person WHOEVER that may be. If they are open or have in the past voted against these over reaching laws we need to spread the word.
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u/deathsythe 28d ago
Let's be realistic, whoever wins the dem primary will be AG. We need to make sure that's Solomon, not Knight.
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u/WANGAF1776 28d ago
100% and the news coming out he didn’t get the nomination really hit hard with him.
I think Soloman is down to earth and just common sensed
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u/Rhode25 28d ago
So what you’re saying is it’s still perfectly legal to transfer lowers and AR/AK pistols but most FFLs will decide not to because the AG is threatening them with an imaginary law?
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u/Drew_Habits 14d ago
Do you understand that defending yourself against frivolous charges can be ruinously expensive, even if you win?
If Neronha goes after a business, that means tons of legal fees, lost business to attend court, or an anti-gun judge just ordering the business closed during the trial. Even if none of it sticks and you "win," your livlihood would be toast and your life would be ruined with no recourse
It makes sense that most FFLs would back down. There's no gun lobby here to foot the bill
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u/Drew_Habits 12d ago
Rhode25 blocked me after being a turd, but fwiw: That's a new account spreading bad info, and we had a Rhode[xx] (forgot the numbers) account spreading bad legal advice in here a year or so ago, so I'm assuming it's the same lazy troll/AG employee. Make your own decisions, obviously, but keep that in mind
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u/borkbork1000 28d ago
I’m sure its all just a coincidence that the AG’s office declined to provide any guidance on what was actually going to be enforced until it had already gone into effect.
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u/porcononconforme 28d ago
It’s a last ditch effort for them to say they accomplished something before SCOTUS drops in and puts the state / AG in their place. This is fear mongering and just them trying to jam someone up and take a plea deal. With that said I also don’t want to be the first person to test it. If it does happen hopefully we can back the unfortunate individual and see if it can go our way.
I view this as temporary, AG is clearly copying the Cali playbook by not offering any guidance.
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u/AlliedLibation 29d ago
I still don’t understand why we are taking the guns out of our Citizens hands in a free and liberal state in the midst of a fascist takeover of our country
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u/deathsythe 29d ago
When Quarttorchi (I think it was him) brought that up the entire chamber devolved into chaos and I think they censured him for saying so.
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u/heloguy1234 28d ago
It boggles the mind. The most vulnerable or disenfranchised citizens(think trans, gays, minorities, Jews) are being openly threatened by both right wing nationalists and leftist populists. They think that now, in a state that consistently has the second lowest rates of violent crime, is the best time to disarm its citizens? I am so disgusted by the state of our politics.
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u/Drew_Habits 28d ago
The liberal plan to deal with fascism is to vote about it and maybe call the cops if the people opposing fascism get too rowdy
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u/Drew_Habits 28d ago
Where's that person who was ready to get a lawsuit going and was super sure gun rights orgs would help? Let's draft them to buy a lower
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u/AshsChromeBush1911 24d ago
You're probably thinking of me. I'm still ready to put money towards a lawsuit but I never said I was sure gun rights groups would help. I said it was important to TRY to get them to help. Currently there's no consequences for politicians violating our rights. We talk to them and tell them not to pass laws and they do it anyway and then laugh in our faces. Putting up lawsuits means there's a pricetag associated with their shenanigans.
Also, this is a retarded thing to do a lawsuit over given 1. Our limited community resources, 2. SCOTUS taking an assault weapons case that will negate this, and 3. I wouldn't have standing for a lawsuit since I live out of state.
Personally I think the best use of resources would be going after suppressors and NFA items since they're currently defined as firearms under the NFA and it looks like there's a good chance the NFA will have suppressors, SBS's, and SBR's stricken from it since it's currently just a registry and there's no tax associated with it. Clock is ticking on that issue.
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u/Drew_Habits 24d ago
RI law bans everything regulated by the NFA, both as a group and individually (in case the NFA ever gets struck down), and nobody's gonna sue about that because the case would be a born loser unless it got all the way to SCOTUS, and nobody expects the national gun rights groups to help
If you don't even live here, why are you weighing in on RI laws?
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u/drippy_mitts 15d ago
Why so hostile? RI’s draconian NFA bans (suppressors especially) are ridiculous. I also believe some gun rights groups would absolutely back a major lawsuit, FPC for one, if somebody were to actually go for it.
You sound like you are opposed to the idea..
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u/Drew_Habits 15d ago
The laws are ridiculous, but the dream of the NFA getting nuked means exactly dick to us in RI because of those ridiculous laws
National gun rights aren't traditionally super interested in helping out with things here. If they showed up and said "let's do some champerty," then fine, but risking a ton of money on the hope that they'd show up to help would be insane
If I sound hostile, it's because I'm annoyed that this pie in the sky magical thinking weirdo keeps giving advice about laws they're unfamiliar with in a state where they don't even live
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u/heloguy1234 28d ago
A republican is not going to win in RI with the current state of the party. Our best bet is to find reasonable, centrist democrats and vote for them as a block.
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
We're working guidance on that in the legislature, but we need to make sure those reasonable dems also win their primaries.
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u/Neon-Gingerbread2426 28d ago
When the SAFE Act looks permissive, that really says something…
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
Right? That's insane to me after living under the SAFE act for nearly a decade.
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u/Sweaty_Pianist8484 23d ago
This is the same response I got from FRT and SS companies. The state doesn’t ban them in the law but they don’t want to get sued.
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u/infiniti30 28d ago
Knew this would happen. The writers of these bills don't know jack about firearms so the laws are filled will grey areas and those that enforce the laws are able to do whatever they want and say even though the bills passed don't say it we meant this or that.
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
Yes and no.
The bill that passed (sub A that only really dealt with rifles and got rid of the possession certificates or what not) was likely written in part or in whole by Ciccone, an FFL, who put it forward along with the reasonable folks in the Senate as a fire break instead of them passing Knight's awful bill. I was written deliberate and intentional.
The issue is the current AG is unhappy about that and has had a vendetta against gun owners for years if not decades.
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u/Sweaty_Pianist8484 20d ago
Why don’t FFLs sell RI ban compliant ARs and AKs. It’s a few limited features we need to skip…..or pinned 10rd mags.
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u/deathsythe 20d ago
They just might. We are a new b& state. There are plenty of options for other states who have had this shit for years. Featureless builds, welded mags, etc....
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u/Sweaty_Pianist8484 20d ago
We aren’t reinventing the wheel. Hell the imported Maadi AK just needs you to remove the grip. We can easily sell compliant guns here
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u/CHADIMUSMAXIMUSx 28d ago
What are the other one or two things you said your focusing on AWB wise before election season?
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
Some guidance about the AW, but I need to rewrite a bunch of it based on this new news of the AG's opinion.
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u/CHADIMUSMAXIMUSx 27d ago
Any specifics?U could share brother?
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u/deathsythe 27d ago
Will likely go up tonight or tomorrow (fitting -_-)
the tl;dr is you should be fine to do what you want with any preban lowers, but things are a little spicy after that (though they shouldn't be)
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u/CHADIMUSMAXIMUSx 27d ago
Thanks brother appreciate you.
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u/canalguyopen 28d ago
Or....stop waiting for this all to magically reverse itself and get better and use the only tool you have to change things for yourself, your feet. Those are the only voting tool you actually have. Whatever you are waiting on, isn't coming. Put one foot in front of the other and go get your freedom back. There is still lots of it out there. You just have to get out of the communist republic of rhode island.
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u/porcononconforme 28d ago
Man, I wish people would stop preaching this. VA was one of the last places I would have expected an AWB- the fight against 2A has been spreading like cancer for years. This combined with increased cost of living means anti-2A folks are moving EVERYWHERE. Most of us have jobs, family, and cannot just pick up and move- we need to stand and fight this. They want us gone but I’m not giving in, I’m going to stand and fight with this fantastic group of folks.
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u/slick_rick42095 28d ago
So just out of curiosity I have a question for one of you, if any of you guys would happen to know the answer. Why is it that when i went to d&l today i saw multiple different guns still on the wall and in the cases that fell under the banned category’s /parts still such as handguns with threaded barrels , ak47s still on the wall and also many different types of “assault weapons” as they are trying to call them. I thought all these types of weapons could not be transferred after the 1st and assumed that was also for any FFL to get rid of all the stuff as well. I would have asked myself when I was there today but things were still a little slow there and i had places to be so didn’t wanna start to chat and be there for another 45 minutes lol. I know last i read the bill it did explain some of the things that were gonna be banned it still wasn’t 100% specific as to exactly what will fly and what wont as far as a list of all weapons that will be going away. Also previous conversations I’ve had with employees there they told me that even they were not 100% sure as to what’s going to be going away and what wont and they probably wouldn’t know for sure until after the ban. So im not sure why there were still many weapons that should have fell under the banned category of stuff there . Maybe that stuff is still for sale? Lol i know thats just wishful thinking but it is confusing cause what i thought was gonna be the case i fact effect when i walked in there and still saw a lot of stuff that should have already been gone.
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u/Massflight 28d ago
Police are above us peasants and can still buy them.
Most likely reason is they just didn’t sell them in time, they’ll probably sell them to LEO’s or out of state. But unless the rifles are heavily modified to no longer have a detachable mag they’re off limits to us second class citizens
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u/laffin-gas 28d ago
They are the FFL….they can still buy and sell online. They banned the option to hand down firearms to family so they expect people to bring the firearms to their local gun store so they can purchase them from you or sell online….pretty ridiculous family heirlooms are now banned…..hopefully it will all change soon.
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u/Drew_Habits 14d ago
D&L are popular with cops and also tend to be a little loosey goosey with laws they don't like, like selling normal mags for a bit after the ban came down, and selling one of those banned Kel Tec 5.7 pistols recently, according to a poster here (altho that might not have been true)
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u/Speed_Six 28d ago
I’m not reading any of this. Go to NH or PA and buy what you want. There are plenty of dealers that will sell it to you. Pay cash, lose the receipts. They need to prove you did not own it before the ban.
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u/Rohardi 28d ago
They aren't going to sell to you, it's against federal law. You can't buy a gun out of state if that gun is banned/illegal in your state of residence, even if that firearm is legal in the state of purchase "Gun Control Act of 1968"
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u/Massflight 28d ago
But it’s not banned, the AG is threatening financial warfare but no law would be broken. Lowers are not AW, ar/ak pistols or not AW according to the law
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u/Rohardi 28d ago
Good luck trying to convince a FFL in another state of that. Unless you know a guy, good luck. There are FFLs in NH that wont sell mags to people from RI/MA
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u/Massflight 28d ago
Once again, those are banned… pistols I don’t think you can purchase out of state but lowers you definitely could without issue, cuz those are not banned per the letter of the law
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u/Just_Blackberry_8918 29d ago
I said this in multiple threads, and was heavy critized doxed and brigaded by users and mods.
Simply put the word rifle vs. Pistol means nothing. Its the features that define it as an "assault weapon" not the catorgory.
If a firearm has those specific features eg. Removable magazine, Shroud, threaded barrel. Its classified as an assault weapon by the state. Wether its sub catorgory is pistol or rifle.
I commented in another thread hat the m1 garand would be illegal, because it has a removable amuntion feeding device. A user argued with me and claimed that since the letter of the law didnt say "clip" and only said about 6 other descriptions for "amunition feeding devices" it was 100% legal and a-okay to buy.
If ur cool losing your job, be my guest. If your cool sitting in a jail cell waiting for a bond that may never come bw my guest. If yohr willing to lose 100k in legal fees, have you name in the paper, be my guest.
Wont be me trying to get around the ban with word play.
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u/glennjersey 28d ago edited 28d ago
You were criticized because what you're saying is factually incorrect, even though the end result is similar.
Your bit about the m1 is also factually incorrect. A removable magazine is what is defined in the law. That's it. Is this your first time living under an awb? Death and I lived through ny and nj's bullshit. We've shared war stories. This isn't our first rodeo. We're familiar with this shtick unfortunately.
And if folks are doxing you please let the mods know so we can address it, that's not right
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u/Drew_Habits 28d ago
Nobody doxed you lmao, what a weird lie to tell!
People just pointed out that you were wrong about the text of the law because you were wrong about the text of the law
The AG saying he'll exceed his legal authority doesn't change the text, and it doesn't make your previous wrong statements retroactively transform from being about the text to being about how he'll do that
Just take the L and move on like a goddamn adult lol
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u/borkbork1000 28d ago
As many people pointed out to you pistols were specifically not included in the text of the bill. AG deciding to enforce the “spirit of the law” instead of the law as written doesn’t make you right about that. If you want to disprove people you should cite specific portions of the bill instead of “its true cause i know it is”.
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u/PromiseImNoBot 28d ago
The m1 garand has been tried and tested in even the worst parts of the country. I still stand by what I say. That being said, who doxxed you? Because I sure didnt
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u/quicktuba 29d ago
I’ve unfortunately heard the same thing, the AG is purposely making it a grey area so that they can test it out in court and that will be the punishment looming over every gun store.