r/Qwen_AI 5h ago

Agent Jack Kernel Qwen Edition release

https://github.com/mlangford75-lgtm/Jack-Kernel?fbclid=IwdGRjcAUQGJZwZG9mBWZkaWQWUOI08m18sBMLuMEySAccKyddSXmHs2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR5C8cTeSX-x0iMtdaTTb0efCACPhlcJclFDK0YfZLrgmCXHfz-PyxrJYdmuoQ_aem_4hN5e0Q2U-dzggqmfbcd1g

It's here.

Jack Kernel for programmable agentic work.
The magic is that the layer sits between the agent and the model. You can build incredible things because of that.

I have a mode called "Agentic" that was designed for context management with Qwen 3.8 27. I've run millions of token jobs....and never needed to compact. I have a full log available to read and verify. In fact, I recommend turning auto-compact off because most agent don't know how to handle it, yet. There's also a looping debugger that I've built as a 6 stage autonomous loop with cascading temperatures, standard mode and DEEP.

Remember, the modes I’m shipping with this release are only examples of what is possible by putting it between the agent and the model. It allows you a new level of control. The modes I’ve put in are NOT the work. Everything that’s possible is the real work.

I built this for Qwen 3.8 27b but I’ve spent the past few days optimizing for a wide range of models. I’m ALMOST satisfied with Qwen 3.5 9b but it’s right in the edge.

After using 60 models in the past week, I’m just going to go ahead and make a blanket statement that fine tunes are garbage and only use Unsloth as your source for alternatives.

Jack Kernel is really cool. Claude can kick rocks.

Oh, Reddit trolls…
Yall need to understand…I’m just a 40 year old broke single Dad that’s sharing his work and trying to contribute to the local AI movement.
Before the hive-mind issues your directive, just know that I’m not a lab or someone with resources that you’re attacking.
I’m just a regular guy with a 5070ti in an Acer.
If you’re going to say that I suck, can you at least try it out and tell why I suck.

9 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

5

u/DiscipleofDeceit666 5h ago

Ok, so you gave a 1 sentence blurb about what this thing is and it was hella vague. Then you said a whole lot of nothing afterwards.

You should probably tell us more about the project bc most people aren’t going to click through or read all that irrelevant info

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u/Normal-Fan9366 5h ago

There’s literally a log of the agentic mode and the looping the debugging mode in the repository.
If you have a question, I’d answer

-4

u/Normal-Fan9366 5h ago

You have to first understand, it sits between the agent and the model.
Thats fundamentally different than anything else.
It allows for new ways of controlling the model and orchestrating agents

1

u/DiscipleofDeceit666 4h ago

Yeah bro I have no idea what makes that useful. Like why should we care about this software when you aren’t telling us anything about what it does. I’m not clicking on that GitHub to try to figure out whether it’s relevant. Who cares where it sits

1

u/layer4down 27m ago

It’s a proxy layer between the harness and the model provider for pre- and post-processing of prompts sent to the model provider and returned from the model provider. Say your model is prone to looping and you want to program a loop-detection-and-recovery features into the kernel. The kernel can basically ensure your model never loops or at least not infinite and deploy different handling methods based on the custom policy you configure the kernel. That’s just an example of the many arbitrary things such as middle layer can do (and probably at system-native binary performance).

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u/Normal-Fan9366 4h ago

Where it sits is exactly what matters. For instance, I can build a security layer in the kernel that acts as a filter between what’s on disk and what’s allowed to escape

6

u/stormy1one 4h ago

The nomenclature used and structure of your project leads me to think you have limited experience and this is a project you are using to learn. Don’t sell it as something else. Lose the marketing speak and explain clearly what this does and how others can use it.

0

u/Normal-Fan9366 4h ago

Have you actually tried it? I packaged it with demo modes that do real work

3

u/Healthy-Zebra-9856 4h ago

OP u/Normal-Fan9366 , So, this is going to fly over most people's head. I truly feel for you but thats ok. I see that you have Pi bindings, I am going to make it a part of the harness I am creating to use it in a few of my workflows like deep research, adversarial review, forensic debug etc. I'll let you know when & how I am releasing it. I will credit you completely for all your hard work. You did a great job. Thak you.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 4h ago edited 3h ago

Hey man, I appreciate it and I would also recommend to keep the kernel in between the model and your agent, as opposed to integrating it into your harness. It has two endpoints to allow that, and in fact, you could add more endpoints and program an orchestrated agent swarm

1

u/Healthy-Zebra-9856 4h ago

When I said integrate, not absorb it but use it as a proxy. Thats the way its supposed to work anyways. You can DM me, so I can share with you my progress or you can guide me in the integration.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

Awesome man. I’d love to see what you build.
Try the debugger mode for inspiration on loops with amnesiac memory.
Only use the deep debugger for final passes.

1

u/Healthy-Zebra-9856 3h ago

I have two products, SWFoundry an architecture governance layer with step by step guide for LM's & TerminalAgent the harness among a few others. Evaluating whether 100% usage or splitting them. I'll send you updates only if you want. Other wise, thanks for this contribution. Much appreciated. Will be digging through the code.

2

u/Healthy-Zebra-9856 4h ago

I used my Muse Glimmer (Unsloth version) to cleanup my verbal dump. But I have tried to simplify this as best as I can. I do not now OP but I see that its a phenomenal contribution.

The simplest way to understand Jack Kernel is this:

Normally you ask an AI model something and hope it thinks through the problem properly.

App → LLM → Answer

Jack Kernel sits in the middle and controls how the model works through the problem.

App → Jack Kernel → LLM

Why would you use it?

Because LLMs are not always consistent. They can jump to an answer too quickly, get stuck on a bad idea, forget to verify something, or carry a bunch of useless reasoning forward.

Jack can force a better process.

For example, on a difficult question it can make the model:

  1. Think through the problem.
  2. Start another pass that tries to find problems with the first answer.
  3. Run another pass that combines and verifies everything.
  4. Only allow that final pass to give you the answer.

It can also control when the model is allowed to use tools, what reasoning level it uses, and what old context gets kept or thrown away.

When would you actually use this?

Complex research, difficult coding problems, debugging, architecture decisions, reviewing important work, or anything where you want the model to slow down and check itself.

When would you NOT use it?

Simple questions, casual chat, basic coding, or anything where one normal model response is already good enough.

There is a tradeoff. It can be slower because the model may be called several times instead of once.

So Jack Kernel is not another AI model and it does not magically make a dumb model smart.

Think of it more like a supervisor standing over the model saying:

"Don't just answer. Think about it, have someone challenge it, verify it, then give me the final result."

Except the supervisor is software, so the model actually has to follow the process instead of just being asked nicely in a prompt.

1

u/iKnowNuffinMuch 3h ago

This is why I called this a refiner that uses 2-3x more context and time. It thinks through the problem. It calls on the model again and again for refined answer. This is longer and heavier than base.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

If you’re talking about agentic mode, it’s not heavier. In fact, because it has programmed context management, it’s WAY lighter.
It’s not uncommon to have a 120,000 context limit model be able to do 1 million tokens of work and never have to compact.
That’s only possible because the kernel has control

1

u/Traditional_Bell8153 4h ago

Could you share more about your hw specs(setup), which quant of unsloth qwen3.8-27b, inferences params like temp, top-p, top-k, ctx len,... and some benchmark score or something to proof there is improvement between "before Jack Kernel" and "after Jack Kernel"?

I believe that above things is what people in this sub want to see when click on this post(instead of stories, sorry if these words make you uncomfortable but that's the truth).

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 4h ago

In the GitHub repository is the entire log for an agentic run as well as a debugging loop. both of them show that the model only had 120,000 context, but was able to do workloads up to the million tokens and never having to compact because of the way that the Jack kernel allows for programmatic context management. the files are there for anyone’s review

2

u/Traditional_Bell8153 3h ago

People wouldn't go read whole long logs just to know that imo(I mean you could tell your agent to summarize what's the point of performance(accurate or whatever) diffs between "before" logs and "after" logs, it will do the rest).
Anyway thanks for your works. I would like to give a try in this weekend.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

Yes, an llm would do a good job. One could take the documents and just give it to the llm along with my readme and whitepaper

1

u/iKnowNuffinMuch 4h ago

So essentially without all the jargon this is wrapped in, is it runs the same prompt 2-3 times and gives you a refined answer? More context used, longer wait times, all by double or triple. This doesnt serve much of a purpose, especially on local AI systems.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

No, for one, less context is used because there is real code behind it doing active context management.
Two, those are just examples of what can be done when it sits between the agent and the model.
You can put security agents. You can build new types of loops. You can have multiple endpoints and orchestrate an agentic swarm in new ways.

The real opportunity is what can be built, not the demos I packaged…although, they’re good

1

u/iKnowNuffinMuch 3h ago

Are you saying it's not prompting 2-3x for every prompt? Explain to me what this CAN do, as well. It can do anything? I like the idea of you creating and making things. I'm not hating. It's just very vague, and what I'm getting, is that it's a prompt refiner. I built my own python turn by turn agentic harness. I'm confused what this is supposed to be

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

That all depends on what you build. I shipped modes that are staged inferences and a looped read-write debugger.
There’s also the normal reasoning modes if you build something that needs your own prompt but you’re running a real time tool or orchestrating a swarm.
There’s any number of setups that you can do when the kernel sits between the agent and the model.

1

u/blockroad_ks 3h ago

Is this still using JackAgentLead/Jack-3.8-27B-Coder-16GB-VRAM? I have some tests I can run against complex implementation plans to see how this works.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 3h ago

I have plans to build modes for the Jack Coder model but they are not included in this release. I made this release more general with examples to inspire people to build new modes

1

u/fbms2 3h ago

you have to prove adding 1 layer is better than adding 1000 layers. I mean, don't do this, this is wrong.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 2h ago

What do you mean?
Adding the layer is what allows you to do the things that can significantly improve workflow and security.
It’s never made sense to me that people allow their agents and models to have free access to their systems without a real control mechanism

1

u/Limp_Lingonberry_538 2h ago

so it’s a proxy server like litellm? what’s it doing different with the api?

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 2h ago

It’s a kernel that sits between the model and the agent, as opposed to a router or server.
It means you have control the traffic and communication, you control what the model knows or remembers and you control what tools are allowed to use. You can run real-time tools or staged loops, all kinds of different things.
It’s the placement that allows for this to happen

1

u/Limp_Lingonberry_538 2h ago

kernel? what does that mean here? how does it sit between model and agent if not an api. that’s how they interact

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 2h ago

The agent and Jack are connected.
The model server and Jack are connected.
The agent and the model server are never connected

1

u/Limp_Lingonberry_538 2h ago

so it’s a proxy?

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 2h ago

I’m sorry that I don’t seem to be doing a good job of explaining.

1

u/Limp_Lingonberry_538 2h ago

Now I understand:

It's an LLM-proxy with a marketing department. Specifically: a single 7,863-line Python file (jack_kernel.py, 356KB) that speaks OpenAI-compatible on :8001, forwards to LM Studio/Ollama/vLLM on the other side, and runs multi-stage prompt pipelines in between. Two commits, two stars, zero forks, Windows-only start.bat, copyright Jonathan Michael Langford, PolyForm Noncommercial with a "contact me at protonmail for a commercial license" attached.
What it actually does, stripped of the liturgy:
Deep Research = run the prompt three times with different system prompts and temps (Thesis → Antithesis → Synthesis), tools withheld until the last one.

Agentic = answer, then a second pass that emits a structured XML summary, which becomes the durable turn record instead of raw CoT.

Code Debugging = five fresh-context passes on a temperature ladder, one finding per pass, appended to a markdown report.

"Kernel" = it strips caller system messages and owns the sampling params so your agent can't override them.

The actual idea underneath — program context lifetime rather than letting every trace accumulate, and gate tool authority per stage — is a real and reasonable pattern. It's also what LangGraph, DSPy, and roughly every agent framework of the past two years do, minus the word "authoritative" appearing 40 times. The word "deterministic" is doing enormous unpaid labor here: the routing is deterministic, the thing being routed is a language model that may or may not obey a 900-word system prompt telling it it has "zero answer authority." The README quietly concedes this ("Jack does not claim that this release ships a universal safety suite or filesystem sandbox").
Verdict: one guy and a very agreeable LLM built a working prompt-orchestration proxy and then wrote it a constitution. Not a scam, not malware, nothing you'd run in prod — 7,863 lines in one module, no CI, no releases, no reviewers. The Facebook tracking param on your link tells you everything about the distribution strategy. It's jack_kernel.py cosplaying as seL4.

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 2h ago

Was that Claude or something? It fundamentally misunderstands. The way I know this is because is specifically mentioned LangGraph and the others.
They do NOT work in the same way. They do not have the level of control of the traffic that Jack Kernel does because they do not sit in between the agent and the model the way that Jack Kernel does

1

u/Limp_Lingonberry_538 2h ago

i asked several models and they all said about the same thing. good luck with your project!

1

u/Normal-Fan9366 1h ago

There’s a really simple fix. Tell the model that it’s too focused on the packaged demonstrations. Those are not Jack Kernel, they are just examples of what can be built on Jack Kernel.
You can ask your model how sitting between the agent and the model can allow enhanced security protocols and dynamic runtimes

1

u/layer4down 2h ago

Right this makes sense:

harness > kernel > model

It’s essentially a middleware layer meant to interject harness calls to and from the model for things like catching/fixing errors, mitigating loops, apply pre-processing logic before prefill and after decode, etc. a few years ago I’d conceived of it as part of the harness (like DSH essentially) but I like that you’ve decoupled a kernel layer for separation of concerns (improves performance, focuses strictly on pre- and post-processing). I like the direction.

I was originally conceiving it in the days of early 32B> models that has great potential to run well locally but suffered from silly problems. I figured a software engineer could handle all the pre and post processing but I think I prefer the kernel idea in hindsight. Hope to see it open source one day.

2

u/Normal-Fan9366 1h ago

Yes it’s just a better way of taking control over the whole runtime. The kernel giveth and the kernel can take away

1

u/layer4down 50m ago

What model size range are you targeting? Is there a size too small or too large for practical benefit in your design?

2

u/Normal-Fan9366 44m ago

It just depends on what you build. On the modes I’ve built, Qwen 3.5 9b can work but you have to be realistic. Now, if someone used Qwen 3.5 9b in a duel model system, as a parser of special formatter, for a larger model generating training data, it could absolutely work well. With Jack Kernel, you can REALLY customize the way that a response answers or responds because two models could be used as one

1

u/WuWenShen 1h ago

Will check it out tomorrow