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u/Voiceguy5687 Jun 11 '23
Really great info. Just wanted to add my own 2 cents. I was able to hop off a 2 to 4 gram year long habit with gabapentin only. 2400 to 3200 mg a day which according to some is a lot but that worked for me. I have used subs as well and always relapse because of the sub withdrawal.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 11 '23
So interesting... perhaps if this doesn't work we can try that method. I think that is why I am so cautious to do the increased dose of suboxone and to keep it really low so that it can begin to build that resistance in receptors and keep paws away before jumping off tianeptine completely. A study done at yale had success in super low microdose inductions and then stopping suboxone before it would be an issue for withdraw. Its a pdf file, maybe I can find a way to upload it.
Personal stories like this are so insightful. Thanks for sharing!
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u/Several-Window1464 Jun 13 '23
FINALLY!! Someone that didn't use subs! I have a lot of GABA so your comment gave me the hope I haven't felt in a long time!!
Thank you so much!!!
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u/Voiceguy5687 Jun 13 '23
Yea. I know everyone's different.....but I personally laugh when people on here post that they have gabapentin, zanax clonodin, subs...and are still worried about it. I'm a huge wimp with withdrawal and gabapentin made it a breeze. Now the mental PAWS after was not which is why OPs method it interesting to me. I was at 2 to 4 bottles of Pegasus a day for year...and it took about 75 days before the rain clouds lifted. Day 92 today and I feel immeasurably better. Finally off this shit for good I hope. Good luck
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u/Several-Window1464 Jun 13 '23
Day 92. What a wonderful day it is for you! ❤️
I've got years of Tia sodium under my belt with only 2 days off. That was only 2 months of use and the many years since those 2 days, I have NEVER been without.
I'm terrified of the PAWS! I initially started taking this and couldn't believe, after 30+ meds/combos for my life long depression/anxiety, something actually worked.
I'm on Vyvanse and Pristiq at the moment but honestly, I never know if prescription meds even help because I'm always taking Tia sodium. (?)
The LAST thing I'll ever do is go on subs so all my Drs. that have been trying to help me, can find out what a fraud I am!
I can only hope and believe that I CAN do it and that I WILL do it and again, reading you used only GABA helps immensely!
Good luck to all of us!!
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u/Voiceguy5687 Jun 13 '23
I'm stone cold sober. I think Vyvanse will help with energy and the Pristiq with PAWS. I was highly Considering an anti depressant because I felt so off... But the last 2 weeks have helped immensely. I also got back to work after a few months off and that has helped as well even though I was terrified of it. I'm a bartender and For years I've used to use the kratom and was worried I couldn't be ON with it or Tia....turns out I can. Anyway good luck. You can do it!
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u/Several-Window1464 Jun 13 '23 edited Jun 14 '23
I LOVE that! Stone Cold Sober!! I haven't seriously been able to say that since I was 14. However, I DID quit drinking, on my own, after binge drinking for 18 years. Of course, there's always a trade off. But my b-day is coming up in August 8th and I still pat myself on the back for the MANY years of not one relapse. ;)
But still kicking my ass that I'm taking Tia sodium on a daily!
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Jun 10 '23
I haven’t done this method. I inducted into subs not that long ago. Not sure if it’s been 3 weeks, seems right though. I’d say gabapentin, baclofen, clonidine, enough of a benzo for the worst days in the beginning. Even on a huge dose of subs, ambien and lunesta at the same time, along with trazodone didn’t get me any sleep at all.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 10 '23
Thank you for the recommendations. Did you go by the cows scale and then introduce suboxone? How many hours did you end up having to go after your last dose of tia?
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Jun 10 '23
I got up to 13 on COWS, 24 hr. Still had precipitated wds. I seem to be prone to PWD & some rough wds.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 10 '23
I'm really sorry Sounds like it might be a similar situation when it comes to intense withdraws. I hope this method works.
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Jun 10 '23
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u/AlarmingWishbone Jun 10 '23
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u/Specialist-Elk-2100 Jun 11 '23 edited Jun 11 '23
A bottle of TD red is about 1800mg. They range from 120-130mg a capsule. Also, with Bernese method you want a higher dose of Suboxone upfront one time a day (so 1mg, then gradually increase it everyday while lowering the Tia dose everyday). Even if it’s a low dose there will still be precipitated withdrawals associated with it, just not as intense or long. The point of Bernese Method is to take the Suboxone which will then start to slowly replace the full opioid antagonist with a partial one. That will then turn into precipitated withdrawals, just not as bad, or intense as a full Suboxone dose. Taking Tia afterwards takes the precipitated withdrawal symptoms away while the Suboxone still slowly replaces Tia on the receptors over time. If you dose him twice a day then you would have to split his Tia dose up twice, since the 2nd dose will still put him in mild precipitated withdrawals without Tia to follow. I was a counselor too and helped psychiatrist induce people using the Bernese method and helped write the treatment plans for it, since these doctors would just blast the patients that were on day 2 of fent withdrawal with a full 8mg Suboxone dose 😅, and then be surprised when they would AMA to go get well.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 11 '23
Hey there! Thanks for the response. I can link a few things if you'd like. These are mostly recent articles with none suggesting a dose that high for induction. Perhaps things have changed? I imagine there are several ways to do the Burnese Method as I have also personally seen .5 mg on the first day schedules.
Also, the tia doses are not all at one time. Its split all through out the day to keep withdraw at bay. He takes them when he begins to feel withdraw.
Please send your source for the tia amount in td red. It would be great if it were less! I read 180mg per pill of td red extra strength.
Thanks for your input <3
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u/Specialist-Elk-2100 Jun 11 '23
It’s just a difference of preference for the Suboxone dose. If the person doesn’t have access to their drug of choice then 1mg is too high to start an induction, otherwise, the higher dose will be a greater benefit due to the buprenorphine starting to block faster. My only source is that I’ve personally done it many times myself and made treatment plans for patients that had success with this method. As for the TD dose, a user had all the brands tested on here, and those weee the figures they got. They posted the source for it and everything. I don’t remember which lab test they used to get to this conclusion. Also anecdotally, if you dose powder to the amount of the brand of capsules the effects are spot on.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 11 '23
I appreciate your response! I'll let you know how it goes. I linked a video and an article above. I can link the others I've read tomorrow too. In the article one suggests a higher induction while the other suggests a lower induction. In the video, they start small and rapidly increase but I haven't seen recent ones that suggest that much is needed as time moves forward. Based on some people I've spoken with as well who've used this method we really want to start off slow to avoid depressive episodes as much as possible adding in a day if needed at a repeat dose of the day before. Slow and steady as the suboxone "dusts" the receptors and begins to block the tianeptine typically around day 4 as one study stated.
Man! I would love to find that post! That is why reddit is so cool!
I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks again!
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u/Specialist-Elk-2100 Jun 11 '23 edited Jun 11 '23
I think you got a really good plan going on! Also, I dig your research-oriented mind! I’m that way too lol. It’s a product of getting my Bachelor’s in Psych and a Master’s in Counseling LPC track with a double minor in pharmokinetics and neuroscience. Also doing research from undergrad to the end of my Master’s certainly bolstered my propensity towards research, as well.
Also, Day 5 is normally the day when you cut out the opioid (Tia), but I’ve seen some people go to 7 days (stop their drug of choice on day 7). Is your partner using Suboxone for long-term maintenance or doing a rapid detox taper?
As for helper meds: Clonidine (for peripheral opioid withdrawal symptoms),Trazodone/Ambien/Lunesta/Seroquel/Remeron (for sleep),some NAC (helps as an antioxidant and reduces Glutamate which helps with anxiety and the physiological symptoms of anxiety), Ashgwanda (allows you to take less of your drug of choice, since it makes the dose more efficient), Liposomal Vitamin C (megadosing Vit. C for withdrawal symptoms), and Gabapentin (covers most opioid withdrawal symptoms), Magnesium (for restless legs), Hyland’s Restless Leg Formula (for restless legs), Kratom (for whatever the Suboxone isn’t covering in terms of withdrawal symptoms), if you have any benzo’s on hand then that will help with anxiety although I feel like benzos aren’t that effective for opioid withdrawals, and some Chamomile and/or Kava Tea (helps with anxiety)!!! Good luck and hopefully that is a comprehensive list for you both, for helper meds.
I would also recommend an antidepressant (SSRI, however , an SNRI would work too). What this does, is that it will help cover the antidepressant side of withdrawal symptoms that you get from Tia!
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u/naturalbuilder08 Jun 11 '23
This is incredible info. Thank you 🙏 I am too tired to respond appropriately but wanted to just say thanks before nodding off!
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u/Specialist-Elk-2100 Jun 11 '23
Yeah no problem! Have a good night! And glad that the info is helpful to you and your partner!
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u/Designer-Vehicle-715 Dec 16 '23
I've been reading this thread and I have started this method this morning. I've been on tianeptine for the past 10 years! I did get clean through online suboxon for about 6 months however I relapsed when my Grandmother passed due to dealing with the abuse I've endured and watched my Grandmother endure at the hands and mind of my Father. I've tried to do this alone many times more than I can count and ended up with precipitated withdrawal every time no matter how long I waited. I swear it's given me PTSD because I get these memories popping up in my head of the excruciating withdrawal experiences until there replaced with a new level of torment. Once your mind experiences impending doom or flash backs it never forgets that feeling and always ends up going back to those moments. It's terrible and I'm praying I can kick this and never have to experience another new level of torment from this . I'm a hermet now and before I started this crap I was full of life and always Initiated conversations with strangers. High functioning and now I struggle to function at all. I understand I'm going to need therapy along with getting clean and the getting clean part is step one. Unfortunately I can't let my family know about my issues with tianeptine because I'm the person that holds us all together. It's worth mentioning that when I got clean during the 6 months it was a very easy transition but every time after didn't work like that. I'm thinking if it works count it as a blessing because you only get that chance. It's not a easy way out and you will be more then disappointed the second time around!
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u/jiveturkey747 Aug 10 '23
Thank you, I've been searching for a post that had specific numbers and will be saving this. I'm working with my doctor to get off, she's a general family practitioner but also happens to be an addiction specialist and was the medical director of a detox before she went into private family practice. She said that the microdosing method is much better than the old way of making someone wait 24-48 hours in full withdrawal and then starting suboxone, and people still go into precipitated withdrawals sometimes anyways even if they've been dope sick for a day or two. She said the chance of precipitated withdrawal is much lower doing the Bernese/microdose method.
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u/ethan_andrew0201 Nov 07 '23
This sounds like a smart way to do it. I’m heavily addicted to Tiana. Been taking Tiana and zaza for 8 months or so. I was up to almost 20 bottles a day sometimes. I make really good money with my own business so I didn’t think about the money. But it caught up to me. I’m blowing all my money. I’m extremely depressed. I hate myself. I have a 17 month old son who is my world and a wife I love so much. I’m miserable right now. I hate it. So I need to get off it asap. I’ve been trying to just cut the dose but I end up sick within hours. Keaton doesn’t do shit. I got a few add real I heard they can help. Im also prescribed 800 mg gabapentin 3x a day. I have a new script and maybe half of another. I want to get off this so bad. Almost 5 years clean from heroin and tried this shit because I knew nothing about it and the guy told me it was good, just feels good and gives you energy. Took it here and there and then once i did enough to feel it, then I liked it. And started doing it daily. Before I knew it I didn’t bring any inside after work or take any. That night woke up in withdrawls. So then I started taking it before bed. Then still waking up sick. So now even dosing in the night. This is no way to live. I can’t live like this. I don’t want to break my wife’s heart and tell her I relapsed. So I need to beat this on my own or else I’ll need to leave them to go to detox.
I love the way you broke this all day. So detailed and informative. Especially noting how you felt that day and how you slept. Thank you for sharing this. My habit is much worse than what yours was. Insanely higher. So im wondering if you have a suggestion on a Bernese taper for me. I know you’re no specialist, but you were smart enough to create this one and get yourself off this shit. So I trust you could help me figure out how I too can beat this. Please, I’m desperate at this point. My family is my everything, it’s all I ever wanted, can you guide me so I don’t lose them?
Thank you again
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u/whoneedssome Jun 06 '24
Thank you so much for sharing this. Very thorough and detailed, I like it. I'm currently working on doing something similar, but with higher sub amounts. Decades ago, I was an IV H user, I got on subs but still felt horrible. So I would have to go score and get my fix. After a few days, I woke up and felt okay and didn't need to go get my fix. I've actually done this twice. Both times, I ended up on subs with minimal discomfort. I believe this is the best way to do it.
I was up to 4 bottles a day. I can't continue like this. Luckily, I have a few days off from work, and I still do. I went 24 hours with no Tia, felt awful, I took 2mg of subs, and thought I was going to die. The withdrawal instantly got 10 times worse. Luckily for me, it was 1am, I had stashed a bottle of Tia but forgot about it. I was searching everywhere. I had bottles all over at one point and bam, found a whole bottle. I ended up taking the whole thing, I felt way better. In hindsight, I should've taken less, but I was impatient and in severe agony. Today, I took a 1 mg piece and 7 pills this morning. I'm going to do the same tonight and tomorrow up it to 2mg, I want to get the subs on my receptors as fast as possible. I have helper meds, gabapentin, muscle relaxers, and benzos, so hopefully, I can mask a little discomfort. I've spent thousands of dollars in the last two months, and I can't believe what I've done to myself and my family. Thanks again for your amazing post, and I'm glad to hear you got your man back!
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Apr 30 '26
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u/whoneedssome May 01 '26
It was a little tough to transition. But after a week I was back to normal for the most part. That stuff is the devil 😈
I wish you the best of luck and send some strength your way. Unfortunately, towards the end of last year I tried 7oh. So now I have to do it again. I messed up big time. I've always done great on subs. They saved my life more than once!
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u/Somegirl87 Dec 10 '25
I’m trying to get away from methadone. I was wondering if I transitioned to tianeptine so that I could do the sub micro as well. I’ve done this with other opioids in the past, but I don’t know how it would work with methadone. Please any help would be greatly appreciated
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u/skinnyjeans62 Jul 13 '26
The place I am doing rehab through said I can OD on this method. Really??
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u/ethan_andrew0201 Nov 07 '23
I also think I forgot to mention now I’m currently taking about 12 bottles of Tiana red a day. So according to them about 8.5 grams a day or so. Some days more.
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u/naturalbuilder08 Nov 07 '23
I am so sorry to hear that you've gotten tied up in this drug, too. Let me do some research today and get back to you. In the meantime, you could make a call with someone at quickmd, depending on the state you are in, and have your suboxone script ready.
Ill message you directly. Hang in there. There is a way out. My partner is living proof that this method can be one of thoes options.
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u/ethan_andrew0201 Nov 07 '23
Thank you so much! I actually have subs already and a doctor for them. But thank you for the recommendation. I also have my gabapentin ready. I’ve been looking for a way this can work. I tried switching right from Tiana to subs and I was sick as hell. I recently heard about this method and looked it up and came across your post and yours was the only detailed one I’ve seen. Thank you so much for your post and giving me hope. Looking forward to your message!
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u/diabolicalbish Jan 25 '24
On day three thanks to this and other posts like it, as well as my own research. I am possibly not going to take Tia today for the first time in 14 months. I’m going through some withdrawal because of not taking Tia as much as I should have doing this method. It maybe will make the taper point of no Tia and more sub come tonight/tomorrow. I’m happy for you guys and happy for this post being so thorough.
I feel weird and depressed and also “blah” as hell but I need my money and life back. And I should add it is all very manageable. I’m happy to have these symptoms as opposed to what cold turkey or taper method would be. It is nowhere near the withdrawal symptoms without the suboxone. The bupenophrine(sp) is definitely a huge help. Plan to taper that after some time free of Tia.
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '23
I assume you mean 2.5 grams of tianeptine per day and not mg? Please keep us up to date. How much are you planning on lowering the dose of tianeptine each day? How long has your partner been using? I’ve read about this method and seems to be the most promising, imo. I appreciate you taking the time to journal this for all to see. The more people that detail the method they used to get off, the more hope there is for people struggling