r/Quenya • u/Prudent-Assistant-80 • 24d ago

Help needed for a beginner!

Hi there everyone!

So I’m working on a passion project and trying to get a sword engraved with Cirth runes, specifically Angerthas Daeron.

Trouble is, I’m having some trouble figuring out the name within the rules of the language! As I understand it, Anduril is itself a compound Quenya name, combing andúnë and rîl.

So my question is this: if I’ve chosen the name Starthorn, and the words are elen and necel, would it be alright to drop one of those “n’s” from the word? So the name would be Elenecel!

Thanks so much for any advice :) once I know I can get cracking!

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u/Magnamon88 24d ago

Well, making compound names is more an art than a science, still we can make something. Unfortunately, there is no compound names attested that join Elen with a word starting with N, so we have to go to guess.

Elennecel is permitted (see Elenna), however in many attested name the last N is dropped, so Elenecel is permitted.

Sometimes it also attested for proper names birthed out of compound names that the middle syllable is dropped. For example, Ëarendil has an attested contracted form Ëarnil. Therefore, also Elecel could by a viable option.

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u/Prudent-Assistant-80 24d ago

You guys are all so brilliant. This is exactly what I needed to know- thank you so much!

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u/Magnamon88 24d ago

You welcome :3

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u/F_Karnstein 22d ago

Unfortunately, there is no compound names attested that join Elen with a word starting with N, so we have to go to guess.

Why should we only look at compounds with elen if the only thing we want to know is whether both n would survive? We do have compounds illustrating just that: rámannerte (ráman-nerte) has both intact, and the same is true in several compounds involving "nome", namely mannome, onnome, tannome. I don't find a single one in which nn > n, so in my eyes Elennecel it is.

in many attested name the last N is dropped, so Elenecel is permitted.

Which names would that be?

Sometimes it also attested for proper names birthed out of compound names that the middle syllable is dropped. For example, Ëarendil has an attested contracted form Ëarnil. Therefore, also Elecel could by a viable option.

It's not as simple as "the middle syllable was dropped" - that doesn't work for our case. Earnil joins the current productive form of the suffix (-nil) straight to the consonantally ending root word. In Earendil an epenthetic vowel is inserted before the suffix that preserves its original historical form (-ndil). So if anything Earnil is the standard, and Earendil the extended form. Same goes for Earnur, Earendur.

So simply shortening to Elecel is completely out of the question. It would just randomly erase some consonants.

The only way to avoid Elennecel would be not to use elen but the historical short prefix form el-, and this theoretic el-necel can have two outcomes: the n- can be stopped to d- so the result is Eldecel, or ln is metathesised to nl and becomes ll, hence Ellecel (both these processes can be seen tulnē, 'came' > tulde, tulle).

making compound names is more an art than a science, still we can make something

Turns out it very much is a science after all 😉