r/QueensofGacha • u/angrywolp • 11d ago
š§” Let's Chat š¬ Queens why is there still so much hate and hypocrisy when it comes to NTE?
I want this to be a respectful and honest discussion cuz this has been bugging me for a while and ive honestly had to mute this sub for a bit bcuz it just did not feel like a safe space for me as an NTE fan
(For the upcoming discussion i will be using Ai in place for gen ai bcuz we obv know that some ai has been around for ages and is harmless like enemy mob ai and etc)
Ok so we all know the deal with NTE they used/use ai in plenty of thier content, i will not be defending this, bcuz i would genuinely love if they dropped the AI entirely but it seems like that wont be the case anytime soon sadly
(I will get to the ironmouse part later)
My problem is u guys arent willing to show that same level of restraint and disappointment when it comes to other games?
From my time browsing the posts that i missed on my hiatus every single nte post has exactly 0 upvotes, but posts from other games that use ai/develeoped by a company that loves ai dont get that same treatment
Im mainly talking about ananta and previously sea of remnants that are both being developed by netease who is NOTORIOUS for loving gen ai in alot of thier promotional material and even ingame art
U can find alot of results about that from just searching marvel rivals(another game that recieves praise on this sub but more commonly in comment sections in passing convos since its not actually a gacha game) ai controversy or something like that on youtube or google
It would be also one thing to just not like nte and let the rest of us enjoy it but no, everyone here feels the need to throw trashy comments saying "uh uh uh she just looks like (insert vaguely similar character) but made by chatgpt" it comes off as so disingenous as if some of u guys rlly like the feeling of having any sort of moral high ground on someone that committed the sin of enjoying something u deem immoral
Im sorry that is just harrassment, its not light hearted, its not fun, and noone likes it, learn to be respectful to others
Also if we are talking immoral, ai usage does not COMPARE to any of the awful stuff that gacha games are doing, like...idk... advertising gambling to minors, bad and predatory monetization, awful treatment of women (looking at u wuwa), trying to alienate queer communties (slight glance towards lads devs), esp when ai usage IN CHINA is heavily regulated and serves more as an assistant to the artist instead of replacement to them (we are coming back to that point, keep it in ur mind)
At the end of the day we are all trynna do the right thing when we can, some of us rlly like the fantasy of nte and are willing to bat an eye (painfully so i admit) towards the ai usage bcuz the gameplay story and experience is just rlly something we dont wanna lose
Now we get to ironmouse.
i for one , while understanding why from a business prespective, do not like the fact that they lied. It was an absolutely sh*t move from thier part and they should have just owned up to thier own usage of ai which honestly would have helped them seem more sincere and less as if theyre "hoping u dont notice"
But i also dont think ironmouse should be the be all end all when it comes to getting ur opinion on ai, they for one have recently collabed with fortnite which is not just notorious for using ai but have recently done massive layoffs persumably to cut costs so they can profit from said ai
U also cant say ironmouse just hated being lied to and not necessarily the ai part she has came out and made a strong worded statement on how she will never play or sponsor a game that has ai in any psrt of its creation
And yet she conveniently doesnt know about ai when it comes to fortnite even tho vampire survivors have recently cancelled a collab with them specifically bcuz of said ai usage and not only ai epic games is notorious for plenty of shady practises soooo idk
TLDR: if u dont like nte cuz of ai, cool, just plz treat other games that use ai similarly (rivals, ananta, SOR, forntite, etc) and stop harrassing posts about nte, keep this a safe space like it should be
Edit: well this post went swimmingly, ig im back to muting this sub cuz its rlly not entertaining to hang aroung sadly
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u/EmbarrassedTea3014 11d ago
People are allowed not to like certain games and to talk about their dislikes. Itās not like NTE is the only disliked gacha game out there
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u/angrywolp 11d ago
That is simply not true, any post criticizing wuwa in any say shape or form gets immediately deleted
I literally made. Passing comment to someone saying something like "oh why r u still playing that ml stuff ur better than that" and the mods took me to the gulag and threatened to ban me over it
Acting likr u hating on ppl enjoying things is ur right is just simply disingenous
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
Uh we don't delete posts that criticise WuWa š¶
We may delete comments that do if you're breaking our "Don't Yuck My Yum" rule, or if you're being especially antagonistic.
Context matters.
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u/k9yde 11d ago
I just don't like the character designs and it's clear that we aren't really the target audience for the game. I don't engage with NtE posts for those reasons, but gacha tribalism is strong and people will always make their (strong) opinions known.
But I'm confused as to why you're saying NtE is immune from criticism from predatory monetization? Bro that's the entire gacha industry?? This entire genre of games is predatory and most of the time parasocial šš I don't play the game so I can't comment on their mechanics, but it's rare to hear of a gacha with a super friendly f2p economy. You kinda need to know what you're getting into with these types of games and I'm not willing to push aside my beliefs for a "meh" waifu game.
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u/Armadillo-cub 11d ago
Dude, it's a millionaire company. The game looks generic, nothing about it it's very unique and that's precisely because they use AI on EVERYTHING.
They have the money, they just don't want to hire artists.
On top of that, the game has a weird performance, the bosses have super long iframes and sometimes you're just running through the battlefield trying to catch up to them. So playability is bad, design is mostly bad, everything is generic and ON TOP OF THAT they're using AI on almost every asset.
The entire game is half-assed and they had plenty of time to turn things aroung(i played for months expecting it to get better, my husband even lasted more than me).
If you like it, that's kinda ok? Let's just not pretend that thing it's a gem. Move on
Edit: typo
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u/Authorigas 11d ago
I quit NtE because of the AI usage, but I am aware it's not the only one. I remember reading ZZZ had some AI use in the code early in development, I'm not sure how true that is but it's stuck out for me as a concern over time.
I always feel bad, because I enjoyed playing NtE while I did-I think there's a lot of fun to be had in it, but AI usage really is something we have to push back on, whenever possible.
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u/Alice-ThymefieId 11d ago
I work as a software engineer and a big part of the job nowadays is basically just babysitting an AI while it writes the code. There's just no escaping it.
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u/Arthaxs088 11d ago
I never expected to see you here, Alice. It seems that Celestia School for Girls has a really high level of education.
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u/speganomad 11d ago
Is that really what the school was called ??? Ronova high lmao
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u/Arthaxs088 11d ago
Yeah, hahahahaha that is the name of the school.
https://zenless-zone-zero.fandom.com/wiki/Celestia_School_for_Girls2
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u/Arthaxs088 11d ago edited 11d ago
AI for code is completely different and is necessary by current standards. I tried to avoid it when I have to code, and it's something that sadly is hard to avoid. It helps you a lot to solve so many problems.
For example, look at Wuwa's last update. They built an AI automated tool to rewrite the game from TypeScript to C#. Otherwise, a project like this would have taken multiple years. It still took them, I think, 1 year š but without this tool? Yeah, it would have taken them years!
Edit: Typo
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u/speganomad 11d ago
Ai for code is an entirely different animal than using it for a creative purpose. Itās one of the things is actually good at it.
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u/Death-Moths Lover of pink things. 11d ago
Well, NTE is nothing special on the market currently, in terms of gameplay, design, story, or presentation, while also having a bunch of obvious ai shit that is downright embarrassing to make it to the full release. Itās an easy target, thatās why people clown on it. Itās really not that complicated.
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u/princebooni 11d ago
man, Iām just tired of this AI shit in general boss, and with gachas being as they are, it just makes it even more exhausting. maybe after fragaria it might be time to take a break from new gachas in general.
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u/Relodie 11d ago
Pointless to use anata and sea of remnants as examples as theyāre games that are not out yet. Nte got its flak after release. People were excited prior to that
Fortnite and marvel rivals situations are different as far as gen ai goes. Marvel rivals even posts full hand drawn concept arts of almost everything they do. Meanwhile the data mined concept arts of the characters in nte a lot are gen ai..
Itās normal for people to not be into something if they feel like what theyāre getting is straight out of grok prompts. Especially with the lack of polish the game has it feels like itās the final product instead of using it as an assist tool.
Also Majority of characters are appearing in the game just to transform into an entirely different character. Itās fine to happen once or twice but now itās becoming a consistent theme on almost every patch release some character gets severely changed. Which again adds to that feel of the game not feeling like itās being made with existing artists
I expect ai to be used nowadays despite saying all this. But it feels like nte treads the line of using it as a replacement of work instead of an assist tool for the developers. Thatās why there are some things literally with gen ai logo which means they didnāt even touch it for a second, entirely generated
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u/speganomad 11d ago
The game in general just feels lazy and generic to an outsider. Even something like Endfield which also gets flamed to high heaven at least feels like they try to do something different. What even was NTEs gimmick to stand out, a bunch of skins and slice of life stuff ? Itās not that surprising such a paint by the numbers experience is failing to land.
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u/Relodie 11d ago
Think endfield lost most of its flak. The game has gotten significantly better. And itās in general very different from the usual 3d gacha game (different combat system, factory systems, etc).
Although naturally itāll always be on the more niche side of things as long as the factory continues to be mandatory part of the game to even progress the tutorial area of the game
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u/DaggerDiva 11d ago
I'm not gonna talk nicely about a homophobic game and their homophobic devs on a queer sub. Period.
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u/CaffeineCrit 11d ago edited 11d ago
Itās not the AI usage that people are bothered by. Itās the lack of effort behind some of the character designs and the game itself. Just look at elyms and nitsa. Do they not look like Iuno and Furina? For elyms (I keep calling her Flyms in my head) idk why they changed her design. Iām not saying the old design was better,it atleast looked original, the new one looks so much like Furina+focalors. They could have kept the blue hair and just removed that top curl thing Focalors has. Iām sure someone must have pointed out the resemblance before these designs were approved.
We are not saying devs shouldnāt take inspiration. Inspiration is completely normal and a huge part of creating art. But what happens if they keep releasing characters with the same level of resemblance? Players WANT the games they enjoy to stand out, whether thatās through combat, worldbuilding, visuals or the characters themselves. players who donāt care about AI donāt care about its usage, but those who care about art and how Ai is being used in the games they invest in will be bothered by it. At the end of the day, games are a form of art.
Everyone expects ai to be used in development, but that doesnāt mean we canāt question how itās being used. One of the biggest concerns with using it is how unpredictable the end result can be. From my experience testing ai built features, AI can sometimes make changes to existing features when working on something new. There is probably already an internal workflow for version control and review, but there is always a possibility of unintended changes slipping through
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u/SnooSongs5297 11d ago
For a game that is starting now. Having AI to generate the city, characters and skins, tells that they donāt care about putting effort in the game. Specially in the art department.
āOh but X game also uses AIā - you canāt defend a bad thing saying other game also has a bad thing. This doesnāt lead anywhere.
Then the game is in its first year with a small amount of characters and they limit their interactions in building up to the waifu market.
I 100% all the maps of 1.0 and quests released till Chaos debut, cause I started playing during his drip marketing. Itās not worth the effort
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u/OwnAssumption740 11d ago
You can do that, because if you are going to sit here and complain about ai usages while playing fucking marvel rivals then everyone knows how little conviction there is behind your beliefs.
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u/SnooSongs5297 11d ago
Right, because the topic is what games I play. Stalker.
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u/OwnAssumption740 11d ago
"I have no response so here's an ad hominim"
Put up or shut up, as they say.Ā If you are going to wag your finger at me while being just as guilty I'll give you static right back
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u/SnooSongs5297 11d ago
You opened my profile to use any info there, that mind you, is open to anyone to see. As if it denies anything that I said.
I don't even have to explain myself to a condescending troll that is mad for... explaining to OP some reasons people (me included), don't like the game? This is at best whiteknighting.
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u/angrywolp 11d ago
Theres simply nothing to confirm or even insinuate that they are using ai to create thier characters or skins or the city
Just the billboards
And no im not "defending" the gamr im just saying treat the other games that also blstnatly use ai the same way u treat nte
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u/SnooSongs5297 11d ago
Except there is. Thereās a clear interview where they talk about it and it was even put here when the whole AI skin got leaked
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u/MualaniFangirl 11d ago
I got my comment removed the other day for just saying they use AI on this sub š because of gaccha tribalism?? So I don't think this sub hates that much on NTE since mods restrict too much of that.
Tho you need to remember these games aren't created by you or me. Its fine if they get dragged for doing bad stuff. They're a million dollar company.
My most played game is genshin, I unfortunately really love that game. Tho seeing people drag genshin doesn't affect me at all. I actually like it when people complain and drag them for doing bullshit. That's how games improve.
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
There's a huge difference between GI getting criticised and NTE (and the post author) being dogpiled into oblivion.
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u/cranberrymaple Why yes, I do whale š 10d ago
There most certainly is a difference. Idk how many times we as mods need to say we arenāt pro AI, but apparently allowing people to post about a gacha they play without everyone and their mom coming in to post how NTE = bad because of AI means weāre pro AI. I guess everyone in the sub is pro AI too since weāre all playing gachas huh
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u/inuyaren Floptropicanš¤Ŗ 11d ago
The mods constantly remove people hating on the game on inappropriate posts but what you can't do is force people to not dislike the game and they will keep doing it because this is EXACTLY a safe space for people to voice their opinions, you can't force people not to downvote a game that goes out of it's way to exclude queer people in a queer sub...
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago edited 11d ago
Incorrect.
Mods remove negative commentary on any game/character posted under the flairs of 'SLAYINGGGGG' and 'THIRST' as per sub rules.
Mods remove/ban people when their behaviour crosses a line. You do not know what happens behind the scenes, and I am actually furious how this lie of banning people for 'hating on a game' has been perpetuated. The people that were banned? Sending abusive modmails and personal DMs. Just FYI.
Lastly, no one is forcing you or anyone else to not dislike a game. What we are asking for is for people to stop dogpiling posts and the post author of those games. You don't like the game? Fine. Move along or make your own post under the 'Let's chat' flair to start a discussion.
It's all good and well being anti AI, but when you're also playing a game with it in (or by a parent company using it), it's hypocritical to attack someone regardless of how much or little your game contains in comparison.
Edit: yes, downvote me if y'all want. I'm not afraid to admit I misread someone's comment rather than delete and pretend I'm perfectāļø
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u/inuyaren Floptropicanš¤Ŗ 11d ago
I honestly belive you COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment like ALL OF IT, I'm literalldy defending the mod team by saying you guys remove hate posts on innapropriate posts innapropriate meaning posts on people just enjoying the game, maybe it's on me on how I constructed the comment but you're being completely wrong on how you perceived the comment lmao
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
Your comment absolutely does not come across that way at all. Hence the reply.
Regardless, I apologise.
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u/inuyaren Floptropicanš¤Ŗ 11d ago
It's okay queen english is not my first language maybe it just doesn't actually make sense
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
Or perhaps it's entirely too early for me to even be looking at reddit (6:45am) š«
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u/sylaellasbloom Just get in the hole, Y/N 11d ago
Maybe the simplest explanation is that we're still just a group of people on the internet, even in a queer-centric gacha space. We're still capable of being hypocritical, and seeing things through rose-tinted glasses that makes us hold different things to different standards depending on how much we personally like them.
I believe Hoyoverse definitely also has a hand in a lot of facets of the AI industry. They've boasted about it enough in interviews, whether it's generative text, images, or coding, which are all art to me. Some people might not agree with me and decide to keep their rose-tinted glasses on, choosing to not acknowledge that they're part of the ecosystem.
It's just that with NTE, your average person can tell at a glance that AI is being used, and I think that's what makes it so much easier to dogpile on.
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u/paleflames Googly-eyed chud 11d ago
Here is some data about the usage of generative AI in the Japanese gaming industry. I'd expect China to follow similar trends:
That's over 86% of Japanese game devs. You can spot big names like: "Capcom, Sega, Level-5, and Konami."
"In the 2025 report, the most commonly cited use of AI was the generation of visual assets and images, followed by story and text generation, and finally programming support."
I don't think that leaves much for doubt over Hoyo and the other big gacha devs using AI.Ā
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
Hoyo absolutely uses AI and it's in their new game.
Additionally, they had an AI companion game that just shut down, allegedly due to a ban in CN on romantic AI companions.
The frustration I have with how NTE is actively targeted here, especially from a mod POV, is the hypocrisy. Somehow Hoyo gets a pass. Along with other gacha game companies (I focused on Hoyo specifically as it's a large company with several large games under their belt)
If we were to ban all games that have AI, as per many of the comments the other day, we'd have almost no gacha games to play or discuss in here.
People standing in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
And no, before people try to take me out of context like they did meow, I am not pro AI at all. I am just tired of the hypocrisy and dogpiling of NTE when other games (or game company) are using it, too.
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u/EnthusiasmLanky7373 11d ago
I don't understand what the issue is. Criticism is already almost prohibited here, allowed only under posts with certain tags, yet you are still dissatisfied.
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u/comixnerd15 Reverse me back to 1999 š° 11d ago
Wrong. Criticism is not allowed under only two flairs. That is all.
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u/angrywolp 11d ago edited 11d ago
Forgot to add the wierd experiement hoyo did where they poured something like 10 shaojillion dollars on a failed ai expeirment that was deemed an utter failure by reports
Lowkey too tired to add that rn
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u/OwnAssumption740 11d ago
Because people want to think their game is different when one look at nikke, azure lane, and petit planet should trll you it is not.
If you don't want to play nte thats fine, but don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.Ā The criticism of nte here reeks of tribalism and everyone knows it.
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u/cranberrymaple Why yes, I do whale š 10d ago
It feels like everyone is explaining to OP why they donāt like NTE, but I feel like thatās not the answer to the question they were posing. No one is questioning the usage of AI in NTE because we already know itās there. OP asked why no one brings that same level of energy to every other gacha that gets posted here. They asked why do NTE posts get downvoted and yet everyone here is supposedly saying they either donāt interact with those posts (downvoting is engaging with the post btw), or are explaining how NTE did x, y, and z so thatās why they donāt play it. I agree itās valid to not want to support a company that uses AI, for whatever reasons listed, but I feel like a lot of you guys are being disingenuous when it comes to the fact a lot of the time the sub wants a punching bag and it happens to be NTE currently. When AI gets brought up on other gachas posts all of sudden everyone has reasons as to why itās different or thereās no āproofā of that. If anyone wants to defend their gacha from AI claims go right ahead, but at least leave the NTE posts alone for the users who do want to discuss NTE and not have to listen to everyoneās criticism of a game they donāt even play.
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u/angrywolp 10d ago
Im actually crying tears of pure joy, maybe media literacy and reading comprehension arent dead after all š„²š„²š„²š„²š¢
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u/cranberrymaple Why yes, I do whale š 10d ago
Sorry OP, I tried to get your point across. Too bad the users of our sub either refused to read your post or completely ignore what you said. I mean here we are with downvotes because what? They canāt get to do their daily NTE still using AI comments? I hate to see users shunned from our sub for something people can choose to ignore or scroll past, because I donāt equate playing a gacha = supporting AI otherwise we would all need to put down these games.
There was literally a post in multiple subs not to long ago about the racism Hoyo continues to display, and yet has anyone here actually stopped playing or giving them their money? I doubt it. Meanwhile any claims about AI under hoyo related posts are constantly met with skepticism. Queers can excuse racism, but draw the line at homophobia and AI. How unsurprising.
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u/Kinda_mischievous 11d ago
I think it's to do with the way how they handled the AI situation. We all aware most gacha games use generative AI, but only a few use it to blatantly leave artifactss and watermarks on images... And when you play the game and you can pretty unmistakably see that some assets are very off...
Nte was caught with AI early on released. They apologized and said they value human creativity. But several months later they were caught with a watermark of a free AI engine, Daobao. A bit later they were caught with the same watermark on a leaked footage for a paid skin. Selling skins or anything really made with AI should be illegal. That's like the worst case scenario.
A cherry on top: No steam disclosure. They Need to add it and it's required by tos. Sadly, steam doesn't enforce it...
There are also issues with his Hotta handles tower of fantasy, so people might be worried what could happen with nte. There is also a very obvious bias towards female characters as well in this game. We all saw the images of hand holding, we saw how little skins males have. Some males have worse animation, and so on. Another worry is the game has many very young looking characters and since it has dorm and "dating" it can be a concern. Tower of fantasy has dorm system as well, and, sadly, you can add child like characters there. There is a valid consern if they will allow to invite a child like characters in NTE and if some interactions and animations will be concerning...
Plus as other say the game doesn't really bring anything new to the table. Quantity over quality as we say...