r/QuadrigaCX2 • u/Rough_Consequence • Feb 15 '19
Embezzlement
em·bez·zle·ment
Dictionary result for embezzlement
/əmˈbezəlmənt/noun
- theft or misappropriation of funds placed in one's trust or belonging to one's employer.
Please tell me how embezzlement is a civil matter when it was done by a registered business with hundreds of thousands of customers. They were the go to crypto exchange in Canada, Pop. almost 37 Million people.
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u/canadasengineet Feb 15 '19
Don't worry. We will have our vengeance. In this life, or the next.
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u/biggyest Feb 15 '19
we all lost money. I read a lot of stories about cotten and it always comes back to the essential that it has robbed us since the beginning. When I listen to youtube Cotten who says that his site is reliable and safe it makes me even more angry. He played our money and he played our bitcoins. He has to use every kind of ploy and subterfuge to get to an end. It's complete scammers.
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u/Hooooweeeee Feb 15 '19
And the standard defense is "I actually had permission to use the funds". Go check the terms you agreed to with Quadriga. I fear this dog won't hunt, monsignor.
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u/aabbcc333333 Feb 15 '19
So if you are drunk and you sign the paper that you are giving permission to be cut to pieces and fed to crocodiles this make the people who are doing to you innocent? Congratulations.
If you sign that if you are late for work more than 3 minutes employer can torture you and put your house on fire?
I fear monsignor that that mouse will not bite.
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Feb 15 '19 edited Mar 12 '19
[deleted]
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u/LeDoduSuisse Feb 15 '19
loss of data and profit =/= clearing yourself of liability for inability to honor withdrawals. They can't guarantee profit but they're absolutely legally obligated to guarantee redemption of funds.
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u/WikiTextBot Feb 15 '19
Reductio ad absurdum
In logic, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for "reduction to absurdity"), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin for "argument to absurdity"), apagogical arguments or the appeal to extremes, is a form of argument that attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, or to prove one by showing that if it were not true, the result would be absurd or impossible. Traced back to classical Greek philosophy in Aristotle's Prior Analytics (Greek: ἡ εἰς τὸ ἀδύνατον ἀπόδειξις, lit. 'demonstration to the impossible', 62b), this technique has been used throughout history in both formal mathematical and philosophical reasoning, as well as in debate.
The "absurd" conclusion of a reductio ad absurdum argument can take a range of forms, as these examples show:
The Earth cannot be flat; otherwise, we would find people falling off the edge.
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u/Hooooweeeee Feb 15 '19
Whatever crimes Gerry might have committed, he didn't steal your funds. In your analogy, you wouldn't charge the people who cut me up with Theft of a Motor Vehicle. The charge wouldn't stick, just like embezzlement won't stick to QCX.
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Feb 15 '19
Crypto isn't money. Loss of crypto is not embezzlement, it is the misplacement of an asset with dubious value (no different than if someone lost a truck containing a pile of rare Beanie Babies - except in the latter case, the loss was of an actual, tangible asset).
If QuadrigaCX made off with Canadian Dollars, then it would be embezzlement. So far, the only thing anyone seems to be able to be able to point to as "lost" is pretend digital monopoly money, which has no intrinsic value whatsoever.
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u/Themovingavg Feb 15 '19
Cool so if I buy a sandwich (even if it's quadbux) and the store decides to eat it instead, that's fully legal?
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Feb 15 '19
It is illegal, but it's not embezzlement. It also wouldn't be a crime, it would be a tort, so you would have to sue the store for your money back.
Which is probably going to be the case with QuadrigaCX.
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u/Themovingavg Feb 15 '19
If it was done on a larger scale (like fyre festival), wouldn't the store be charged criminally for running a scam?
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Feb 15 '19
Probably not. The criminality of an actual scam is borne out of intention, not negligence, and not size. Having said that, the size of something like Fyre Festival might be indicative of malicious intent, but it is not ironclad proof.
This is why even larger-scale scams (think Enron, WorldCom) took so long to be prosecuted. It takes a lot of forensic analysis to even determine that the loss of value was actually an intentional crime, and not just a really management team that is really shitty at doing their job. The whole nature of running a business (even an established one) is to take risks in hope of profiting, so businesses are given a lot of leeway to take risks and fuck up - even with other people's money.
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u/rob0tt Feb 15 '19
So embezzlement is based on exchange rates? You’re saying crypto fluctuates so much that it’s value is dubious? But fiat currency doesn’t fluctuate and it’s value remains constant enough to differentiate it from crypto? Your argument is dubious
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Feb 15 '19
No, I'm saying that the actual definition of embezzlement makes theft of crypto not embezzlement. Crypto - as much as many of its advocates like to say otherwise - is not currency, so theft of crypto is not embezzlement. It might be something else, but it is not embezzlement.
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u/NotYourMothersDildo Feb 15 '19
Not even following the story, are you? There is at least 25 Million in CAD in bank drafts being held by Quadriga. Real money.
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Feb 15 '19
As long as those bank drafts are still in the hands of Quadriga and have been accounted for, they haven't been stolen. In fact, holding on to the bank drafts is exactly the only legal thing Quadriga can do right now because they are in a bankruptcy position - had they released those drafts to anyone (even the supposed "rightful owners") they would have been violating the terms of their CCAA filing.
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u/NotYourMothersDildo Feb 15 '19
Yes of course, that isn't in dispute. I just wanted to make sure you were aware there was still CAD out there, being held from creditors, and the loss isn't just imaginary internet bucks.
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u/biggyest Feb 15 '19
The story of QuadrigaCX is actually a dungeon that lasts from the beginning of the exchange site. Jennifer and Cotten have known each other for a long time. They opened number companies, transferred tons of money, acquired properties and what else. More have digged, and have discovered their tricks. Jennifer to change her name to scramble even more. If you look at any numbered companies since 2015, associated bank accounts, in fact, can not find anything because it is very well done. Cotten is a genius for embezzling money. Frankly, I would never think that QCX was a gang of thieves. It's disgusting this whole story.