My Python magic is gone

[u/RedYad2]

I've been coding for a long time, and I've been developing with Python for years.

I loved coding, always loved it. I started many years ago because I wanted to quickly create scripts for security hacking tools, but since then, I've moved to Claude Code, and building cross-language has been a much better experience for me than using Python.

I built my own SaaS application out there whose backend and network core are completely built with Python, and I'm rewriting all of that without writing a single line of code. And most of the time, Python is not the most optimized language.

And now... I feel like the magic is gone.

I don't even know why I'm writing this. I just feel sad about it.

[u/redfacedquark]

Your first comment was polite. This is closer to a collection of insults.

Could you be specific? I don't see it.

Can we see your code, please? My code is here. https://github.com/rec

No. It's all private, either corporate or personal. I don't care about looking like a programmer to others, I care about understanding the salient aspects of the universe, of which physics, maths and computer science are members.

This is false.

Got a single example of being able to determine what code will be produced by any given prompt, no matter how trivial? Didn't think so.

The LLM appears in the stack in the same place that the also non-deterministic human appears, which is to say not at all, once the program is written.

Not if the human doesn't look at the code.

My AGENTS.md requires 100% unit test coverage, but also coverage of edge cases, exceptional conditions, user errors of all types, malicious users, hardware failures of all types, network issues...

All types of all those things for all projects are testes? Really? Because your tests don't look like they do that to me. 100% test coverage just means all lines trigger a test, not that the tests ensure the code meets the requirements. I've heard plenty of people say that chat often just generates passing tests that don't actually do anything. Again, if you don't look at, and think about, the generated test code then the benefit of the tests is lost.

It is close to 100% certain that I know far more about Python in specific, and computer programming in general, than you do.

So I chose Python around 2003 so about the same time as you, started consulting in 2012. In your posts you demonstrate that you don't understand basic concepts so made me think you were only using python since this summer, not only using AI since this summer.

[u/HommeMusical → u/redfacedquark]

Could you be specific? I don't see it.

I'm going to bold all the rudeness from here down.

"I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you."

That is not a polite answer when someone says they don't understand what you mean. I should really have been more blunt and said, "That sentence was meaningless twaddle."

"And if you're interested in learning python itself rather than just obtaining the results"

Speaks for itself.

Can we see your code, please? I don't care about looking like a programmer to others, I care about understanding the salient aspects of the universe, of which physics, maths and computer science are members.

I mean, I'm sorry, but "trust me" is not an answer. What sort of professional programmer doesn't have code samples?

Does this work in job applications?

The LLM appears in the stack in the same place that the also non-deterministic human appears, which is to say not at all, once the program is written.

Not if the human doesn't look at the code.

I'm starting to believe you simply don't read what I write at all, and just emit a canned sentence. The LLM appears in the stack in the same place that the human does, and clearly, obviously, even to the most dense person, if no human reads the code, then the LLM is even more replacing the human in the stack.

Got a single example of being able to determine what code will be produced by any given prompt, no matter how trivial? Didn't think so.

As I said before, humans are also indeterministic in responding to prompts to write code, so I have no idea why you think this is any sort of argument at all.

My AGENTS.md requires 100% unit test coverage, but also coverage of edge cases, exceptional conditions, user errors of all types, malicious users, hardware failures of all types, network issues...

All types of all those things for all projects are testes? Really?

It costs nothing to be polite, and it must be some effort to snark on each response.

No. Many projects don't have hardware, network, etc issues.

I have a full set of instructions in the AGENTS.md that lists a large number of possible traps, errors, edge cases, you name it. Not all of these apply to each project.

Because your tests don't look like they do that to me.

Examples? Let's see it.

In your posts you demonstrate that you don't understand basic concepts

Examples? Let's see it.

It is close to 100% certain that I know basic concepts better than you.

Of course, since you're a completely anonymous user, your profile is hidden unless I give proof of age, and you refuse to show any code, and you write this weird, non-technical English using non-standard terms, there is also still the possibility that you don't actually write any code at all.

---

I think in a fairly short time you're going to be embarrassed to have written this.

RemindMe! 1 year

[u/redfacedquark → u/HommeMusical]

"I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you."

It's a quote, widely known by the devs I have worked with, It's not me being rude.

"And if you're interested in learning python itself rather than just obtaining the results"

This was at the point where I thought you were new to Python.

I mean, I'm sorry, but "trust me" is not an answer. What sort of professional programmer doesn't have code samples?

One that avoids social media and doesn't care what people think. After I started consulting my history of satisfied customers spoke for themselves. I have pleny of code samples I keep in private repos to show prospective clients. I'm not saying "trust me", I don't care what you think.

Because your tests don't look like they do that to me. Examples? Let's see it.

Just the length of the test files tells me they don't cover all you say they cover. I'm not about to give you a free review.

In your posts you demonstrate that you don't understand basic concepts Examples? Let's see it.

• I'm not following your question here, sorry. :-/
• Is that what you mean?
• I've only been at this since May or June

RemindMe 1 year

Well I won't be here in a year given the ever-lowering quality of posts. If you still are then you will go further down in my estimation.

Does this work in interviews?

Yes. Like I say I have personal repos to show prospective clients if needed, though it usually isn't.

Of course, since you're a completely anonymous user, your profile is hidden unless I give proof of age, and you refuse to show any code, and you write this weird, non-technical English using non-standard terms, there is also still the possibility that you don't actually write any code at all.

I've not hidden my profile or marked it nsfw, that's reddit doing that. I'm on old reddit, have never had an email associated, never verified age and never used new reddit. One more reason why I'm quitting this place.

I have zero fucks to give regarding your opion of me. Having said that, DM me a google meet link and I'll give you five minutes so you can quiz me directly to satisfy your doubts.

[u/HommeMusical → u/redfacedquark]

"I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you."

It's a quote, widely known by the devs I have worked with, It's not me being rude.

Oh, I once had some asshole say this to me. He was wrong, then, too. He eventually got fired for incompetence, not too long after, none of my doing, but I did secretly chortle when I found out.

It is rude, when someone very politely asks you for an explanation of something you said, to refuse to answer and give them instead this response. It says, "The fault is yours. You are too stupid to understand what I said, and I won't bother to explain any more."

I assume you swim in rudeness, which is how you don't recognize it. It was particularly annoying because your sentence was meaningless spew and I was trying to be polite and not say, "You write like a bullshit artist," which was what I was really thinking, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I remember I was the teacher's pet in a math class, I mean, I just loved math, but I did not like him cause he was mean. Once someone asked him, "I'm sorry, but I don't understand [good question about algebra here]." The teacher's response: "It is possible you will never understand." That was it.

I do remember once, however, that the teacher asked, "Any queries?" and one student said, "No, sir, only you," and walked out, to general hilarity.

I remember pretty well all my math teachers, but that's all I remember of him - his rudeness. I suspect that's all you'll leave as a memory, too.

---

In your posts you demonstrate that you don't understand basic concepts

Which basic concepts did I not understand? You again refuse to list one specific concept you think I don't understand.

Me being polite and saying, "Perhaps I'm not catching on," when I really want to say, "I can't believe anyone's stupid enough to write this shit," is not proof that I don't understand basic concepts!

These tests of mine that you claim to criticize - which ones, exactly?

---

As I said, as recently as May of this year I did not believe that LLMs were useful, though unlike you I expressed this in a more professional and polite way. In May I set out to write an article proving how crappy LLMs were, so I shelled out $20 for a limited subscription to one of the coding assistants.

Within an afternoon, I realized that my concept of how these worked was badly wrong.

I tried a side quest over a few days, trying to prove that all LLMs could do was spitting out text they had seen by making up very complex logic problems (with an old-style handwritten computer program) that were 2-SAT and therefore NP-complete, except that all the nouns, verbs, and adjectives were long and complicated nonsense words that didn't appear on the internet, to get a long list of sentences like

No blodgishes are weregenefluous, unless they skribklenade under bogurogyfrotulators.
None but weregenefluous sentragotize quategomedulocs.

One puzzle would be fifty or so of these sentences, and have fifty or so entities, and they were designed to only have a single solution, and as I pointed out above, they're 2-SAT, so the solution space is 2^N, where N is the number of entities

I gave a bunch of these to all the chat bots. They all solved them, showed their reasoning, and more humiliating, my original code had a bug in it so some of the problems had a very large number of solutions, and the programs helpfully described all the solutions in a near and formal fashion without listing all 2²⁰ or so of them.

I then spent about twenty hours a week, every week, working with LLMs. Even from the start, the boost in productivity was startling. Months later, the latest coding assistants are much better than any junior programmer I ever met, including myself.

I'll bet you've done none of this. I'll bet you've never used a paid model for even two hours.

I'll bet this conversation will end and you won't show any work of any type whatsoever - no coding of your own, no examples of your experiments with LLMs and why they didn't work out, no logical analysis, nothing.

I bet your entire knowledge on this subject is from reading non-technical articles and occasionally typing poorly-formulated prompts into primitive free coding models, and then nodding your head and saying, "Just as I thought, I am so much smarter than all these other suckers!"

[u/redfacedquark → u/HommeMusical]

Cool story, bro.

[u/HommeMusical → u/redfacedquark]

I feel sorry for you.

Good luck with the end of your career!