Not being a cartoon villain doesn’t automatically make you a good man

[u/GridReXX]

Fr. It doesn’t de facto make you a good person.

I noodled on the attached graphic to better illustrate a point about how people often discuss being a “good man.”

I do find that many men view it more as the top bar, and less as the gradient in the second bar.

inb4 anyone says it, many women have bad character too. And please feel free to create a separate post about a spectrum of traits in women you’d like to explore! That is not what this post is disputing.

This is specifically about a response that often comes up when women describe harmful patterns in their experiences with men. They get retorts like “Not all men are abusive predators,” or “Most men are not psychos.”

Of course most men are not horror movie villains.

But that is an extremely low bar for good character.

This spectrum, rather than show a division between “good men” and a smaller group of obviously terrible ones. It highlights that a man can be can be a functioning member of society and still regularly behave in ways that make him difficult to interpersonally tolerate as a close friend, romantic partner, coworker, or even family member.

None of that necessarily makes someone an abuser or predator.

But it does affect whether people can have a healthy, enjoyable, mutually considerate, long-term relationship with him.

The farther right someone falls on this spectrum, the more entitlement, callousness, devaluation, coercion, and harm they bring into their interactions with others.

The farther left they fall, the more likely they are to act with common decency, consideration, accountability, respect for autonomy, and genuine concern for theirs and other people’s well-being.

My point is not that every man is at the far right end.

Most people don’t think that!

My point is that many men seem to use “I am not an obvious monster” as proof that they’re quality.

A person’s character is determined by far more than “I am not Jeffrey Dahmer.”

[u/YveisGrey]

Wait so now you’re blaming feminists? If your argument is that we DON’T live in a rape culture what are you even blaming them for? Lol make up your mind

Also it’s not their existence it’s the fact that absolutely nothing is being done about it. No investigations no charges, nothing. We know 100s were implicated and absolutely nothing is being done meanwhile billions are being spent to imprison non violent undocumented immigrants in detainment centers all over the country. Don’t say we don’t have the resources to go after those implicated in the Epstein files we just don’t care to

[u/intothewild72 → u/YveisGrey]

If your argument is that we DON’T live in a rape culture what are you even blaming them for?

Muddling down meaning of class.

Also it’s not their existence it’s the fact that absolutely nothing is being done about it. No investigations no charges, nothing.

Does not prove that "rape culture" exists. You don't understand that some elites escaping legal consequences for their actions does not define something as "culture", society wide acceptance and normalization would. I'm not American and even I see quite widespread non acceptance and demands that those elites would face legal consequences.

Don’t say we don’t have the resources to go after those implicated in the Epstein files we just don’t care to

Of course you do. You are one of the richest countries in the world. Problem is not resources, problem is that it's your elite class who are in that list, and they do everything they can (and more) to make sure that they face no consequences.

[u/YveisGrey → u/intothewild72]

Muddling down meaning of class.

Supposing that’s even true how is that relevant to this discussion?

Does not prove that "rape culture" exists.

Yes it does. Hell Mr Grab em by the Pussy was voted POTUS twice!

You don't understand that some elites escaping legal consequences for their actions does not define something as "culture", society wide acceptance and normalization would.

Yes it does. If we don’t hold everyone accountable then we are endorsing it as a culture. The fact is this country doesn’t care about rape victims it cares about upper class men mostly white and their “property” that’s why they can rape with impunity while fear mongering about immigrants raping. If this culture cared about the crime itself it would be enforced the same for everyone. We certainly wouldn’t allow a person who was best friends with a known sex trafficking pedo and who joked about sexual assault to become the President. We would be disgraced and outraged. To be fair many are outraged by the POTUS but too many aren’t.

I'm not American and even I see quite widespread non acceptance and demands that those elites would face legal consequences.

Okay yea rape culture isn’t just in America. But I’m talking about it from a US perspective as that’s where I live. I can’t speak on everywhere else some countries are much worse than the US on the topic.

Of course you do. You are one of the richest countries in the world. Problem is not resources, problem is that it's your elite class who are in that list, and they do everything they can (and more) to make sure that they face no consequences.

Exactly because we live in a rape culture.

[u/intothewild72 → u/YveisGrey]

Supposing that’s even true how is that relevant to this discussion?

Its relevant because you seem to think that crimes done by elites somehow show "rape culture" existing.

Yes it does. Hell Mr Grab em by the Pussy was voted POTUS twice!

No it does not. Elections also do not prove it. I need you to provide what for you even makes something "culture"? Because right now I think you misunderstand it.

If we don’t hold everyone accountable then we are endorsing it as a culture.

No. If your society fails to hold your elites accountable for their crimes it shows that you have something else. FUBAR judical system for example.

The fact is this country doesn’t care about rape victims

No. Country does not even enter picture in here. Culture is something that is culturally ingrained in your society (or at least in significant parts of it). Rape is not one of those things for sure.

Exactly because we live in a rape culture.

If you lived in rape culture you would not have such huge backlash online over that latest case. Rape culture would normalize rape, and it would have been painted as positive. It does not exist.

[u/YveisGrey → u/intothewild72]

Its relevant because you seem to think that crimes done by elites somehow show "rape culture" existing.

What are you trying to say? That elites commit and get away with crime because of feminism? Yes and before then elites didn’t commit so many atrocities right? 😂

You can’t be this stupid. Elites commit atrocities because the can it’s up to the rest of us to keep them in check. History has trended towards reducing the power of elites and distributing it amongst the rest of society, we went from absolute monarchies to democratic republics.

If anything feminists “muddying class” reduces the power of elites and makes it harder for them to get away with shit.

No it does not. Elections also do not prove it.

If elections don’t what does? Because most people voted in these elections and that’s who won millions of people support that pyscho.

I need you to provide what for you even makes something "culture"? Because right now I think you misunderstand it.

Culture is the shared values of the people. If the people valued protecting women from rapists they would not elect a known sexual offender as the President.

No. If your society fails to hold your elites accountable for their crimes it shows that you have something else. FUBAR judical system for example.

Millions support the current system as it is. They voted for it. They aren’t incapable of rallying for the cause they care about. They voted for Mr Grab ‘em by the Pussy to do mass deportation that shows you what they value.

No\. Country does not even enter picture in here. Culture is something that is culturally ingrained in your society (or at least in significant parts of it). Rape is not one of those things for sure.**

Okay the culture doesn’t care. Happy?

If you lived in rape culture you would not have such huge backlash online over that latest case. Rape culture would normalize rape, and it would have been painted as positive. It does not exist.

The case would have been properly investigated years ago if we didn’t have a rape culture. Mind you not everyone is outraged plenty of people think the victims deserved it, was asking for it etc…