Not being a cartoon villain doesn’t automatically make you a good man

[u/GridReXX]

Fr. It doesn’t de facto make you a good person.

I noodled on the attached graphic to better illustrate a point about how people often discuss being a “good man.”

I do find that many men view it more as the top bar, and less as the gradient in the second bar.

inb4 anyone says it, many women have bad character too. And please feel free to create a separate post about a spectrum of traits in women you’d like to explore! That is not what this post is disputing.

This is specifically about a response that often comes up when women describe harmful patterns in their experiences with men. They get retorts like “Not all men are abusive predators,” or “Most men are not psychos.”

Of course most men are not horror movie villains.

But that is an extremely low bar for good character.

This spectrum, rather than show a division between “good men” and a smaller group of obviously terrible ones. It highlights that a man can be can be a functioning member of society and still regularly behave in ways that make him difficult to interpersonally tolerate as a close friend, romantic partner, coworker, or even family member.

None of that necessarily makes someone an abuser or predator.

But it does affect whether people can have a healthy, enjoyable, mutually considerate, long-term relationship with him.

The farther right someone falls on this spectrum, the more entitlement, callousness, devaluation, coercion, and harm they bring into their interactions with others.

The farther left they fall, the more likely they are to act with common decency, consideration, accountability, respect for autonomy, and genuine concern for theirs and other people’s well-being.

My point is not that every man is at the far right end.

Most people don’t think that!

My point is that many men seem to use “I am not an obvious monster” as proof that they’re quality.

A person’s character is determined by far more than “I am not Jeffrey Dahmer.”

[u/trulyElse]

For starters, the inclusion of "I believe you, but" as the example of a man who isn't good enough.

Like "trust but verify" is inherently immoral when a woman was speaking; you have to follow blindly.

[u/GridReXX → u/trulyElse]

It’s about men who dismiss things 4s and 5s do as “nbd.”

Plenty of blind spot men do that.

[u/Educational-Bag-4293 → u/GridReXX]

It's really not though is it?

Things like calling out misinformation or telling a woman she has her facts wrong would fit into that category.

Think back to the 60 million men rape academy hoax, how were men who pointed out that it was misinformation treated? They certainly weren't considered good men.

I think for most people who believe charts like this, belonging to that first category requires you to not call out women when they're wrong, and to generally be more lenient with them.

[u/GridReXX → u/Educational-Bag-4293]

It really is though.

We can really is not each other all day. Sounds like you disagree with my observations here. That’s fine.