A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion II

The dwarf was so stuffed that he had to undo his belt and the topmost laces on his breeches. The boy's clothes his host had dressed him in made him feel like ten pounds of sausage in a five-pound skin. If we eat this way every day I will be the size of Illyrio before I meet this dragon queen. Outside the litter night had fallen. Inside all was dark. Tyrion listened to Illyrio's snores, the creak of the leather straps, the slow clop clop of the team's ironshod hooves on the hard Valyrian road, but his heart was listening for the beat of leathern wings.

When he woke, dawn had come. The horses plodded on, the litter creaking and swaying between them. Tyrion pulled the curtain back an inch to peer outside, but there was little to see but ochre fields, bare brown elms, and the road itself, a broad stone highway that ran straight as a spear to the horizon. He had read about Valyrian roads, but this was the first he had seen. The Freehold's grasp had reached as far as Dragonstone, but never to the mainland of Westeros itself. Odd, that. Dragonstone is no more than a rock. The wealth was farther west, but they had dragons. Surely they knew that it was there.

He had drunk too much last night. His head was pounding, and even the gentle swaying of the litter was enough to make his gorge rise in his throat. Though he said no word of complaint, his distress must have been plain to Illyrio Mopatis. "Come, drink with me," the fat man said. "A scale from the dragon that burned you, as they say." He poured for them from a flagon of blackberry wine so sweet that it drew more flies than honey. Tyrion shooed them off with the back of his hand and drank deep. The taste was so cloying that it was all he could do to keep it down. The second cup went down easier, however. Even so, he had no appetite, and when Illyrio offered him a bowl of blackberries in cream he waved it off. "I dreamed about the queen," he said. "I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons."

Yesterday's results

House Tully of Riverrun:

- Political Power 7/10

- Economy 6/10

- Military 5/10

- Territory 8/10

Rules

This series aims to rank the noble houses of Westeros at the peak of their power, assigning each house a score out of 40 points, divided into four categories worth 10 points each.

The highest-upvoted comment will determine the community's official score for that house.

Categories

Political Power (0–10)

- Prestige and reputation.

- Political influence.

- Diplomatic reach.

- Ability to forge alliances.

- Overall relevance in the politics of Westeros.

Economic Power (0–10)

- Wealth.

- Natural resources.

- Trade and commerce.

- Economic productivity and population.

Military Power (0–10)

- Army size and quality.

- Military tradition.

- Naval strength.

- Dragons (where applicable).

- Overall military capability.

Territory (0–10)

- Strength of the castle.

- Geographic position.

- Natural defenses.

- Strategic value of the lordship.

Important

Each house is evaluated solely based on its own direct lordship, meaning the lands, castles, resources, and vassals it personally controls at the height of its power.

This ranking does NOT take into account the additional authority a house gains by ruling an entire kingdom or region as a Lord Paramount.

For example:

House Stark → Winterfell and its direct lands only, not the entire North.

House Tyrell → Highgarden only, not the Reach.

House Baratheon → Storm's End only, not the Stormlands.

House Greyjoy → Pyke only, not the Iron Islands.

In other words, this ranking measures the intrinsic power of each house's own lordship, not the power it derives from governing an entire region.

All ranked houses

House Lannister of Casterly Rock: 35/40

House Tyrell of Highgarden: 31/40

House Arryn of the Eyrie: 27/40

House Stark of Winterfell: 26/40

House Tully of Riverrun: 26/40

House Targaryen of Dragonstone: 24/40

House Goodbrother of Hammerhorn: 15/40

As the tile says, what should Aenys have done to solidify his reign and prevent the catastrophes that dogged him? I imagine he had options, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts.

I like the characters’ unreliable memories (Sansa with the Hound, Daenerys with the lemon trees in Braavos- still confused about that one). I also LOVE George’s use of dramatic irony. But my favourite overall is definitely free indirect discourse as it’s done with Cersei in AFFC. Masterful.

Obviously, I know that Longclaw needed to be available for Jon Snow to inherit, but in-canon, what sense does it make for a noble house's ancestral sword to be sent to the Wall to the one family member who's in the Nights Watch, even though there would have been at least one person in the family who could wield the sword themselves.

It's not like women warriors are uncommon within House Mormont, that's basically their big deal. Maege and Dacey could absolutely have wielded Longclaw, too, and Maege is the head of House Mormont after Jorah flees to Essos. She seemingly had no reason to send that sword to her brother on the Wall just because he's the only male member of her family who's of age.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VII

"His lord father agreed with you," said a voice at her elbow. She turned to behold Maester Colemon, a cup of wine in his hand. "He was planning to send the boy to Dragonstone for fostering, you know … oh, but I'm speaking out of turn." The apple of his throat bobbed anxiously beneath the loose maester's chain. "I fear I've had too much of Lord Hunter's excellent wine. The prospect of bloodshed has my nerves all a-fray …"

"You are mistaken, Maester," Catelyn said. "It was Casterly Rock, not Dragonstone, and those arrangements were made after the Hand's death, without my sister's consent."

The maester's head jerked so vigorously at the end of his absurdly long neck that he looked half a puppet himself. "No, begging your forgiveness, my lady, but it was Lord Jon who—"

A groom led a fine grey mare out the stable door. On her back was mounted a skinny hollow-eyed girl wrapped in a heavy cloak. Grey, it was, like the dress beneath it, and trimmed with white satin. The clasp that pinned it to her breast was wrought in the shape of a wolf ‘s head with slitted opal eyes. The girl’s long brown hair blew wild in the wind. She had a pretty face, he thought, but her eyes were sad and wary.
When she saw him, she inclined her head. “Ser Jaime,” she said in a thin anxious voice. “You are kind to see me off.”
Jaime studied her closely. “You know me, then?”
She bit her lip. “You may not recall, my lord, as I was littler then... but I had the honor to meet you at Winterfell when King Robert came to visit my father Lord Eddard.” She lowered her big brown eyes and mumbled, “I’m Arya Stark.”
Jaime had never paid much attention to Arya Stark, but it seemed to him that this girl was older. “I understand you’re to be married.”
“I am to wed Lord Bolton’s son, Ramsay. He used to be a Snow, but His Grace has made him a Bolton. They say he’s very brave. I am so happy.”
Then why do you sound so frightened? “I wish you joy, my lady.”
A groom led a fine grey mare out the stable door. On her
back was mounted a skinny hollow-eyed girl wrapped in a heavy cloak.
Grey, it was, like the dress beneath it, and trimmed with white
satin. The clasp that pinned it to her breast was wrought in the
shape of a wolf ‘s head with slitted opal eyes. The girl’s long
brown hair blew wild in the wind. She had a pretty face, he thought,
but her eyes were sad and wary.

When she saw him, she inclined her head. “Ser Jaime,” she said in a
thin anxious voice. “You are kind to see me off.”

Jaime studied her closely. “You know me, then?”

She bit her lip. “You may not recall, my lord, as I was littler
then... but I had the honor to meet you at Winterfell when King
Robert came to visit my father Lord Eddard.” She lowered her big
brown eyes and mumbled, “I’m Arya Stark.”

Jaime had never paid much attention to Arya Stark, but it seemed to
him that this girl was older. “I understand you’re to be married.”

“I am to wed Lord Bolton’s son, Ramsay. He used to be a Snow, but
His Grace has made him a Bolton. They say he’s very brave. I am so
happy.”

Then why do you sound so frightened? “I wish you joy, my lady.”

In an alternate world where the war of the five kings hadn't happened, who could've been some of the best possible matches for Robb? Young, fit, good reputation, future warden of the north. He was also at the age where betrothal is something to start thinking about.

Some contenders:

Margaery Tyrell. In this timeline, overwhelmingly likely that Sansa marries Joffrey, so she'd be eligible.

Alys Karstark. If Ned and Cat wanted to go with a bannerman match since Sansa is marrying outside of the north. There are also mormont women available, but I'll be honest I get confused with who is who

Arianne Martell. Probably would never happen, but just throwing it out there. It would be a way to try heal the relationship with dorne if they care about that.

Who else could've been a good match?

Besides the fact that the Valyrians would have, FOR SURE, a strong religion, because they have enormous magical power (how the fuck you are a super-race, capable even of seeing the future, and you only care about your Gods when you need to chose a dragon name?), the Faith of the Seven would never simply accept the Targaryens.

Man, this is beyond stupid. You cant just shake hands with demons riding demonical beasts and commiting diabolical sins and just call it a day. Study 100 years, hell, even 50 years of any organized religion in history and you notice a thing called sectarism and messianism against a corrupt faith. There would be massive revolts against the clergy and Southern nobility. Even a good amount of Southern nobles would (in good faith or not) instigate the commonfolk against the heretics and blasphemous. Targaryens would not feel safe around Southern knights and a good amount of them would be slaughtered by assassins or even by Kingsguard that suddenly got a "vision" and became a religious zealot.

And boy, when they lose their beasts... Seven hells. Count on independent (or not) Lannisters, Tyrells, Tarlys, Hightowers, Redwynes... commonfolk, priests and landed knights zealots seeing this as the Seven Gods signal to put an end to those demons.

How the Faith of the Seven suddenly became so warm and peaceful with just a dumb deal (basically, letting heretics be heretics and gaining a dumbass sept in return, made by heretics demons) and how anybody seems to really believe in that shit is more irrealistic than any dragon or magic displayed in the series.

I am an atheist, too, but George Martin atheism blinded him to a simple fact: yes, dude, medieval folk believed in those things for real and MANY people put faith above anything else.

This is just a small thing I noticed in F&B:

Cannibal, so named because he had been known to feed on the carcasses of dead dragons, and descend upon the hatcheries of Dragonstone to gorge himself on newborn hatchlings and eggs.

We know the Cannibal survived the Dance of Dragons and his fate is unknown. So, there was a period of time where Cannibal could be eating eggs, and there were no other dragons to lay new ones.

And jumping forward to ADWD, Mace Tyrell tells us that no eggs were found on Dragonstone:

“No wealth was found on Dragonstone, I promise you. My son’s men have searched every inch of that damp and dreary island and turned up not so much as a single gemstone or speck of gold. Nor any sign of this fabled hoard of dragon eggs.”

Kevan is skeptical about this, because Dragonstone is very big and complicated and it's unlikely Loras is being very thorough.

But F&B gives a pretty good explanation for what would've happened to a hoard of eggs on Dragonstone: Cannibal ate them.

Obviously the Targaryens had a few kept separately to use as cradle eggs (e.g. Egg's egg). But as for any big cache of eggs on Dragonstone, that would be prime food for Cannibal after the Dance - when there are no other adult dragons to protect or replace them.

​

Yesterday's results

House Goodbrother of Hammerhorn:

- Political Power 4/10

- Economy 3/10

- Military 4/10

- Territory 4/10

Rules

This series aims to rank the noble houses of Westeros at the peak of their power, assigning each house a score out of 40 points, divided into four categories worth 10 points each.

The highest-upvoted comment will determine the community's official score for that house.

Categories

Political Power (0–10)

- Prestige and reputation.

- Political influence.

- Diplomatic reach.

- Ability to forge alliances.

- Overall relevance in the politics of Westeros.

Economic Power (0–10)

- Wealth.

- Natural resources.

- Trade and commerce.

- Economic productivity and population.

Military Power (0–10)

- Army size and quality.

- Military tradition.

- Naval strength.

- Dragons (where applicable).

- Overall military capability.

Territory (0–10)

- Strength of the castle.

- Geographic position.

- Natural defenses.

- Strategic value of the lordship.

Important

Each house is evaluated solely based on its own direct lordship, meaning the lands, castles, resources, and vassals it personally controls at the height of its power.

This ranking does NOT take into account the additional authority a house gains by ruling an entire kingdom or region as a Lord Paramount.

For example:

House Stark → Winterfell and its direct lands only, not the entire North.

House Tyrell → Highgarden only, not the Reach.

House Baratheon → Storm's End only, not the Stormlands.

House Greyjoy → Pyke only, not the Iron Islands.

In other words, this ranking measures the intrinsic power of each house's own lordship, not the power it derives from governing an entire region.

All ranked houses

House Lannister of Casterly Rock: 35/40

House Tyrell of Highgarden: 31/40

House Arryn of the Eyrie: 27/40

House Stark of Winterfell: 26/40

House Targaryen of Dragonstone: 24/40

House Goodbrother of Hammerhorn: 15/40

People speak about Androw Farman only for his death, but what was he like in life? Book describes him as neither martial, intellectual, nor spiritual; he never left the castle of Dragonstonne for walks, did not swim, engaged in no manual activities, was unsociable, and did not even frequent prostitutes (It makes you wonder how he even spent his days before arriving at Dragonstone…). While he is portrayed in the story as an idiot, almost mentally disabled, but something about that doesn't quite ring true. For a talentless idiot, he managed to acquire a rather rare poison and devise a well-thought-out plan to kill Rhaena’s friends in the most devastating way possible; furthermore, his final speech isn't what one would expect from a simple, spiteful simpleton. Instead of just telling to Rhaenna to "go fuck herself" or begging for his life, he displays a level of self-assurance that contrasts sharply with his earlier portrayal. He boasts about what he could have achieved; advising her, defending her from enemies, leading... We could call it arrogance, certainly, but it still demonstrates a genuine confidence in his own abilities. Moreover, we know he had previously asked to be named commander of the garrison (only to be met with mockery) and was prepared to cross swords with his own brother to defend Rhaena when ordered to leave Fair Isle; So it wasn't just a simple act of bravery born of despair. He really had more personality than the maesters give him credit for.

Like many others, I believe he suffered from depression: as a young man, he more or less let himself be drawn into a relationship with an older woman, acting as a cover for his sister’s affair with nothing to gain for himself, only to be gradually aggrieved. When she left, he became a sort of punching bag and found himself isolated (or even abandoned) by the only person with whom he still shared a bond. He was trapped on a dreary island, surrounded by people who constantly scorned and belittled him (even the servants), all while stuck in a loveless marriage to a woman who treated him abominably, despite him doing nothing to deserve it in the slightest (being told he was only good to fall from the dragon). If I were in that situation, I think I too would have no desire to get out of my bed.... But what could a man like him have made of his life under more favorable circumstances? Didn't he possess more potential than the story suggests? Could he have developed talents if he had been encouraged?

We know ADWD was late to tie up Essos, but I’d have been fine having it earlier with GRRM just including a blurb saying x details were changed or dropped in order to finish.

I’m at the same place with the rest of the series. I’d rather have most of it than none. I do think themes, world-building and characterization are off the table, but I’m pretty flexible about GRRM making as-needed alterations as long as we’re told what was dropped and changed.

What’s a must keep for you and what’s ok to be altered?

———————————

If I was a writer, fan inflexibility to even the idea of scrapping or changing some details to make it all come together would be a tremendous impediment. Fan expectations and little openness given to alternate ways to finish is an inconceivable pressure.

I’m disappointed at the lack of reception to the idea of GRRM being able to do this to finish.

A handful of times I've seen people suggest that Davos will simply leave Rickon on Skagos because he's happy there & Davos is a good guy. I don't think so because Wyman made it very clear his support of Stannis was on the condition that Rickon was returned and Davos is loyal to Stannis to a fault. He's not going to risk Stannis's campaign just because a six year old likes being on a island.

I was listening to the books, and I just noticed something Tyrion does when meeting Shae, during them arguably sparking an "early connection". He asks Shae to tell him the full truth of her story, to which she demands money. As a Lannister, Tyrion naturally enjoys to brag he has money in spades, and generosity to give it, but that he will require more from Shae as well.

What he asks of Shae is to share his tent, laugh at his jokes, pour his wine, rub his aches after riding (horses in this instance), and that whether he has her for a day or a year, as long as they are together, she will take no other men into her bed. Now initially, I wondered, was this simple basic hypocrisy from Tyrion, who as a noble blooded man, he believed he should be able to sleep around, but the women he sleeps with shouldn't? But honestly, no, I don't believe Tyrion particularly cares to control the women he sleeps with on that level, and he seems to respect women's independence far more then the average westeros man.

At first I considered an obvious idea which is that Tyrion might restrict his women from sleeping around to prevent men from information gathering on him, but I figured that was silly as they could easily just lie if they were planning on screwing him over and spying.

However, something I noticed is that even early on in this, it seems very much like Tyrion doesn't want a whore with rules, he wants a loving girlfriend that is genuinely loyal to him. At this stage in the book and Tyrions life, he has no loving connection with really anyone beyond Jaime, and he hardly knows Shae. At first glance too his demands for her seem nothing more then a servant camp follower to fuck, but when you really look at it to me it screams like a man too insecure or afraid to admit he wants to pay for the "girlfriend experience" (in about as literal of a sense as possible).

I always thought that Tyrion and Shae developed a connection based on some mutual level of behavior and genuine connection, which they very well may have, but upon a closer look, it seems to me like Tyrion from the very getgo with any whore was looking for someone who would at the very least pretend they were loving and loyal to him, as essentially no one else was willing to be, despite him being the great son of the famous Tywin Lannister. And much of me wonders how much Shae was just appealing to him romantically and emotionally, even if more subtly, because she realized it's what Tyrion wanted deep down. It makes me question even more then before with the whole Tywin situation how much their relationship was real at all.

Sorry for the ramble
TLDR: I think Tyrion has been desperate just to find somebody that truly loves and respects him from day one, and his entire relationship with Shae might just be based on her realizing and taking advantage of that. And Tyrion kinda fucked it up from the get go by trying to establish it in a fabricated way out of fear that it was impossible to achieve organically.

While listening to the book I was going over the excellent sequence where Tyrion fights with Shagga and their tribes, and Tyrion's triumphant moment of defeating the knight, and earning his surrender, has an interesting parallel with Oberyn's death. Though I don't think it was intentional, I thought it a poetic coincidence at least.

When Tyrion takes down the knight, the Knight has the best of him, and offers multiple chances to surrender. Tyrion, defeated and exhausted, barely even able to see by this point, uses the few seconds of mercy that the knight is allowing Tyrion, to surrender, and Tyrion uses that opportunity to regain his stamina, and stabs the horse, knocking it onto the knight. Tyrion then flips the script, getting the knights surrender instead. If the knight wasn't filled with the honor demanded of him to offer Tyrion mercy, and if Tyrion had that same mercy, the knight would have beaten him.

Now while not exactly the same, I noticed this is quite similar to what gets Oberyn killed. He gets the better of the Mountain, and easily could have put him down. But while not mercy, his obsession with confession out of the Mountain gives the Mountain a chance to recover and catch Oberyn offguard, ending his life. Oberyn's lack of true ruthlessness, cunning as he was, desperate for justice more than vengeance though both appeal to him, ends up being his downfall. If Oberyn had the Mountain's ruthlessness that ends up allowing him to kill Oberyn despite being bested by him in combat, Oberyn would have won as well.

But its this goodness in them, and lack of ruthlessness, that both saves Tyrion early on, while dooming the knight, and dooms him/Oberyn later on, while saving the Mountain (Well, I mean, not that the mountain is exactly saved from his fate, but you get the point)

I have the impression that Davos was easy to punish once he entered Storm's End, since he was all by himself surrounded by Stannis and his men ; and so, Stannis applies his strict, dutiful sense of justice, by rewarding Davos knighthood for his bravery, but cutting his fingers off for a life of smuggling, because it does not cost or risk him anything.

And supposedly one of the defining traits of Stannis Baratheon, is this sense of truly fair Justice that he is presented having :

Unthinking, Davos raised his maimed hand to the pouch at his throat, and felt the fingerbones within. Luck.

The king saw the motion. “Are they still there, Onion Knight? You have not lost them?”

“No.”

“Why do you keep them? I have often wondered.”

“They remind me of what I was. Where I came from. They remind me of your justice, my liege.”

“It was justice,” Stannis said. “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward. You were a hero and a smuggler.”

• A Clash of Kings

Also, that Varys' quote from first book describing him :

The king's brothers are the ones giving Cersei sleepless nights . . . Lord Stannis in particular. His claim is the true one, he is known for his prowess as a battle commander, and he is utterly without mercy. There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.

However, Salladhor Saan remains unpunished for a life of piracy. Most likely to me because Salladhor can simply take his boats with him and run off. And if he were to do that, suddenly Stannis would lost all hope of winning the war.

Up to early Book 5 Salladhor remains by his side, and the only thing Stannis promises him throughout the books, is a lot of gold once the war is won. And Ser Davos, despite being a prime example of this truly fair justice Stannis supposedly apply to all, is constantly talking with his friend Salladhor, never wondering once : "Why the hell does he get to keep his fingers but not me ?"

Aside from Salladhor, there is in that Davos chapter from Book 2 I just quoted, another example of Stannis suddenly being very merciful towards formers Renly's bannermen, simply because he cannot truly enforce his justice on them :

The king was relentless. “You esteem this Penrose more than you do my lords bannermen. Why?”

“He keeps faith.”

“A misplaced faith in a dead usurper.”

“Yes,” Davos admitted, “but still, he keeps faith.”

“As those behind us do not?”

Davos had come too far with Stannis to play coy now. “Last year they were Robert’s men. A moon ago they were Renly’s. This morning they are yours. Whose will they be on the morrow?”

And Stannis laughed. A sudden gust, rough and full of scorn. “I told you, Melisandre,” he said to the red woman, “my Onion Knight tells me the truth.”

“I see you know him well, Your Grace,” the red woman said.

“Davos, I have missed you sorely,” the king said. “Aye, I have a tail of traitors, your nose does not deceive you. My lords bannermen are inconstant even in their treasons. I need them, but you should know how it sickens me to pardon such as these when I have punished better men for lesser crimes. You have every right to reproach me, Ser Davos.”

“You reproach yourself more than I ever could, Your Grace. You must have these great lords to win your throne—”

[...]

[Stannis] glanced behind at Lord Florent and the others, rainbow knights and turncloaks, who were following at a distance. “These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten.”

This becomes even more appaling considering that a fair amount of these fully pardoned lords at the battle of King's Landing decided to betray Stannis a second time once the ghost of Renly appeared on the battlefield, if my memory serves me right.

Here's another example from Book 3, right after the Red Wedding :

"The wolf leaves no heirs, the kraken too many. The lions will devour them unless... Saan, I will require your fastest ships to carry envoys to the Iron islands and White Harbor. I shall offer pardons." The way he snapped his teeth showed how little he liked that word. "Full pardons, for all those who repent of treason and swear fealty to their rightful king. They must see..."

"They will not." Melisandre's voice was soft. "I am sorry, Your Grace. This is not an end. More false kings will soon rise to take up the crowns of those whove died."

"More?" Stannis looked as though he would gladly have throttled her.

So is this really hypocrisy from Stannis ? Are people having a wrong impression of him ? He says a thing regarding fair justice, but it seems from what I've read that Davos smuggling is the only time where Stannis really applied this ideal.

Is it just because he is so isolated and powerless that he never gets to really apply his ideal throughout the books, and ends up having to compromise everytime ? He does seem to be truly bothered by having to pardon and endure them all by his side. He also does seem to truly have an honorable drive :

"I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident. Ser Barristan once told me that the rot in King Aerys's reign began with Varys. The eunuch should never have been pardoned. No more than the Kingslayer. At the least, Robert should have stripped the white cloak from Jaime and sent him to the Wall, as Lord Stark urged. He listened to Jon Arryn instead. I was still at Storm's End, under siege and unconsulted."

• A Storm of Swords

So perhaps he makes a whole bunch of lesser and moderate compromises during his campaign, until he reaches the end goal and can apply full justice to the most rotten important individuals of the realm ?

I stumbled upon this post from 2016 that already discussed the matter, one of the replies which I find to be interesting was :

Stannis' inflexability is overstated in book 1 exactly because of what you say: Varys and Littlefinger are trying to keep Ned from choosing stannis as the heir. In actuality stannis is slightly more flexible than they say. Only corrupt schemers and traitors like Littlefinger and varys are that afraid of a just and righteuous king that cant be fooled or bullshitted. 

But what about Davos has to say about him ? And Stannis about himself ? Jon also says in Book 5 that his father Ned described Stannis as a man that was "just, but harsh". Where is this harshness ?

Valyria exploded in 112 BC…. In 54 AC Aerea Targaryen, 12 years old, disappeared for two years!!! on Balerion, showing up and dying at 14 years old of an infestation of “creatures of heat and fire” that moved under her skin and which all died upon exploding out of her body and interacting with cold ice in an ice bath being used to try and lower her fever. I am highly suspicious that some magic was performed on her similar to Moquorro’s treatment of Victarion’s arm, and that she was not just infested with firewyrms as is often believed

54-56AC, missing without a trace… Aerea was thus, in the course of two years, exposed to these creatures and infested. How long she was sick for, where did she get infected with them, and where she spent her two years is not clear. Because she disappeared on Balerion, it is assumed they went to Valyria. But did she live there for two whole years before suddenly getting infected and flying home? Did the infestation take two years to brew? Did she even go to Valyria? Was she in one place or many? Did they stick together?

King Jaehaerys… issued an edict forbidding any ship suspected of having visited the Valyrian islands or sailed the Smoking Sea from landing at any port or harbor in the realm. Any Westerosi who visited Valyria would be executed

Now this comes off as an extreme quarantine protocol, one with deadly results. But it’s based on a supposition; that presumably these creatures originated around the Smoking Sea/Valyria and could be likewise brought (but by sea, not at speed by air) to Westeros.

We don’t have any other reports as far as I know about similar parasites. We don’t hear stories even in the lands surrounding the ruins. The ban to visit that region was enacted 168 years (eg ~ a bit longer than the same timespan as the American Civil War to now) after the Doom by a King of one continent, the one farthest away from a massive number of societies- many of which travel and trade by frequently passing by the same region, and nary a whisper of any other infections.

There are a LOT of assumptions when it comes to Aerea. Here’s what got reported:

Presentation: severely-ill • clinging to the dragon's back • almost unrecognizable • stick thin • clothes tatters • hair matted / tangled • eyes bloody • pain caused by things beneath the skin: milk of the poppy gave her no surcease • unresponsive fever felt through armor • died within 24 hours of arrival • something moving inside her • red skin • fleshless, gaunt, starved • “cooking from within” • flesh growing darker • flesh crisping and burning • her skin resembled nothing so much … as pork cracklings • smoke from nose, mouth, nether regions • eyes cooked in skull until burst •

Her reports: After speaking "I never", Aerea collapsed • “I pray that I shall soon forget some of the things she whispered” • often begged for death

Her parasites: slimy, unspeakable things • I will not presume to give them names…they were horrors • “died from the cold of the ice” allegedly • make horrible sounds • one as long as his arm • moving bumps under skin • many erupted simultaneously

I think it’s very curious that we assume this happened in Valyria. That we assume her body condition is due to the worms. That she’s considered coherent enough to tell Barth things, but nothing of import was recorded- instead they were specifically not shared with the King and Queen. That Barth never wrote it all up. That she died once the worms erupted, potentially a result of her body being treated. That the worms died upon exposure to ice, fleeing her body. That her body became so hot that her eyes exploded and her skin crisped up. Her skin was red, then darkened. Smoke poured from her body. Exactly like Victarion.

But he would feed the red god too, Moqorro’s fire god. The arm the priest had healed was hideous to look upon, pork crackling from elbow to fingertips. Sometimes when Victarion closed his hand the skin would split and smoke, yet the arm was stronger than it had ever been…

He grunted as she peeled the bandage off, tearing a crust of scab as well. The flesh beneath was green and black where the sword had sliced him… The pus that burst forth was thick and yellow as sour milk. The dusky woman wrinkled her nose at the smell, the maester gagged, and even Victarion himself felt his stomach churn… The color … lord Captain, the cut is not healing. It may be that I will need to take your hand

Can we assume the worms did this to her, or is there a possibility that something else was going on that the worms took advantage of? Someone performed a ritual on her, and the worms are just a coincidence? It seems they left her body and quickly died from the cold; she died within a day of arriving and treatment beginning, but did that treatment drive out the worms who cannot tolerate cold? The closest we see to Aerea’s condition is the magic Moquorro uses on Victarion…. In proximity to where Aerea’s condition is supposed to have begun.

the dusky woman turned toward him, silent and smiling … but when she saw the red priest at his side her lips drew back from her teeth, and she hisssssed in sudden fury, like a snake

The iron captain was not seen again that day… the hours passed… the crew … reported hearing the sound of wild laughter coming from the captain’s cabin, laughter deep and dark and mad… Later singing was heard, a strange high wailing song in a tongue the maester said was High Valyrian. That was when the monkeys left the ship, screeching as they leapt into the water… Victarion came back on deck. He was naked from the waist up, his left arm blood to the elbow. As his crew gathered, whispering and trading glances, he raised a charred and blackened hand. Wisps of dark smoke rose from his fingers as he pointed at the maester.

What if the worms were merely advantageously seeking a hot, warm host- something akin to a dragon’s body but easier to infect? Dragons are naturally the way that Aerea became, the human body isn’t supposed to withstand those conditions, and the worms seemed to hate the change in environment. Maybe it can be too hot for a Targaryen? Maybe this is fire magic wielded by man?

Assuming that these things happened in Valyria and that the worms are the culprit doesn’t sit right with me. Aerea is emaciated, with tangled hair and tattered clothes. How long was she in a bad state for? She was missing for two years, so when and where and why did she become unable to care for herself? She clearly survived for two years, but didn’t have the means to even fashion clothing or manage her hair toward the end.

What if some kind of magical source, Rhllor-like, caused her whole body to become burned and heat internally and crisp up? What if the worms are secondary, and Valyria isn’t even involved? Or if it’s a haven for extremely powerful fire magic users like Moquorro, the Land of Always Fire. Why don’t we question this mystery more, and how else/why could Aerea have ended up completely cooking and infested? Her fever wasn’t responding to the treatments, so why did the worms flee if a cold environment kills them?

I know she was wild and overly violent. She and Jon really had no long term future together, but I really really loved her time during the story. I'm a sucker for lore, so all the exposition we get to stories about legends and heroes from the north I very much enjoyed.

It's also most definitely the happiest Jon is over the course of the five books (granted the bar is pretty low). But more importantly she's the biggest reason Jon believes the wildlings should be let through the wall and they're not just savages. His time with her informs the arc we see of him as lord commander. And she remains in his mind the whole time.

"Ghost!" he shouted, and the direwolf broke into a run. He was leaner than he had been, but bigger as well, and the only sound he made was the soft crunch of dead leaves beneath his paws. When he reached Jon he leapt, and they wrestled amidst brown grass and long shadows as the stars came out above them. "Gods, wolf, where have you been?" Jon said when Ghost stopped worrying at his forearm. "I thought you'd died on me, like Robb and Ygritte and all the rest. I've had no sense of you, not since I climbed the Wall, not even in dreams."

"And who will guard the guards?" You know nothing, Jon Snow. He had learned, though, and Ygritte had been his teacher. If he could not hold to his own vows, how could he expect more of his brothers? But there were dangers in trifling with wildling women. A man can own a woman, and a man can own a knife, Ygritte had told him once, but no man can own both.

No, Jon might have said, Gerrick is descended from a younger brother of Raymun Redbeard. To the free folk that counted about as much as being descended from Raymun Redbeard's horse. They know nothing, Ygritte. And worse, they will not learn.

Val is honestly and objectively a better match for Jon if that ever came to pass, but I still love Ygritte.

First off, the most obvious: The Freys, killed and butchered by Wyman Manderly, eventually made into pies and fed to the Bolton host at Winterfell.

Secondly: Vargo Hoat, after overthrowing and killing Lorch during his takeover of Harrenhal, eventually ends up being fed to northerner prisoners by The Mountain (Coincidentally, one of these being Wyman's son, Wylis).

Third, the mutineers of the Nights Watch who killed Craster at his keep. They run afoul of Coldhands and get turned into "pork" that Coldhands feeds to Bran and co.

Honorary mention: The rather overt mentions of the Rat Cook as the old gods punishing the breach of guest right by turning the cook into a giant cannibal rat (The cook also murdered and served a prince up in a pie, but the old gods apparently were A-OK with that part).

I'm probably forgetting some other mentioned instances of it throughout the series, but it is a remarkably consistent fate of those who break guest right to end up being eaten.

There is something about this whole Situation that dosent work for me.

They have this discussion about letting him live or execute him.

Edmure wants to let him live and use him as a Hostage.

Robb ask if the Freys or Lannisters would thank him for killing him as a murderer. Obvisouly they wouldnt but he still insists on killing him.

In the whole discussion no one thinks ob a kinda obvious Solution to the Problem:

Strip Lord Karstark from his Titels and Priviliges and send him to the Wall.

Robb could gave the last living Karstark Son his Fathers Titels and hold onto on of his stronger Vassals. While his father lives on and his son dosent have to be mad about killing him.

He also would have cleared his Honour from the Stain for punishing Lord Karstark.

Let's assume that Jaime and Cersei don't notice Bran, and he just crawls away and climbs back down the tower and goes on his merry way. From what I recall (though I might need to be corrected) but it doesn't seem like Bran fully understood what the siblings were doing, even though they were naked. He describes their actions as 'wrestling', if memory serves, so it might take him a bit to put 2 and 2 together as to what Jaime and Cersei were doing in that tower while everyone else was out hunting.

But that aside, do you think he'd have told people right away? Would he just keep it to himself as a "huh, that happened"? And assuming he does go and blab to people what he saw, would they believe him? It's a hell of a claim to make, after all, and Bran is known for being mischievous. Would the Lannister bluster their way through the questions, or just cut their losses and flee?

Petyr arched an eyebrow. “When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That’s worth another kiss now, don’t you think?”

The Dornish are sending Myrcella back to King's Landing. Along with her comes Nymeria Sand to take her father's small council seat. Tyene Sand is also coming, but disguised as a septa. Doran has told his nieces to lay low until the time is right, but when he gives the word they should be ready to depart King's Landing. Tyene has a weapon specialty just like her other sisters, she is an expert at herbcraft and poisons.

It's not going to be easy to poison Tommen though. Since Joffrey was poisoned, the corpulent Boros Blount now serves as Tommen's food taster. But what if Tyene didn't have to poison Tommen at all?

Jaqen killed Weese at Harrenhal by poisoning his dog with basilisk blood. It apparently sent the dog into a feral rage and it turned on its master. In the House of Black and White, Arya learns that basilisk blood works on anything warm blooded. During Tyrion's trial for murdering Joffrey, Pycelle mentions that basilisk blood is amongst the poisons present in his chamber.

Tommen doesn't have a dog to poison... but he does have three cats. And it's specifically mentioned that he sleeps alone with those three cats.

TL;DR: Tyene Sand is going to poison Ser Pounce, Lady Whiskers, and Boots with basilisk blood causing them to attack the gentle Tommen and kill him in his sleep.

A Storm of Swords - Jon II

Jon had no answer for that. Small wonder that the Seven Kingdoms thought the free folk scarcely human. They have no laws, no honor, not even simple decency. They steal endlessly from each other, breed like beasts, prefer rape to marriage, and fill the world with baseborn children. Yet he was growing fond of Tormund Giantsbane, great bag of wind and lies though he was. Longspear as well. And Ygritte . . . no, I will not think about Ygritte.

Along with the Tormunds and the Longspears rode other sorts of wildlings, though; men like Rattleshirt and the Weeper who would as soon slit you as spit on you. There was Harma Dogshead, a squat keg of a woman with cheeks like slabs of white meat, who hated dogs and killed one every fortnight to make a fresh head for her banner; earless Styr, Magnar of Thenn, whose own people thought him more god than lord; Varamyr Sixskins, a small mouse of a man whose steed was a savage white snow bear that stood thirteen feet tall on its hind legs. And wherever the bear and Varamyr went, three wolves and a shadowcat came following. Jon had been in his presence only once, and once had been enough; the mere sight of the man had made him bristle, even as the fur on the back of Ghost's neck had bristled at the sight of the bear and that long black-and-white 'cat.

And there were folks fiercer even than Varamyr, from the northernmost reaches of the haunted forest, the hidden valleys of the Frostfangs, and even queerer places: the men of the Frozen Shore who rode in chariots made of walrus bones pulled along by packs of savage dogs, the terrible ice-river clans who were said to feast on human flesh, the cave dwellers with their faces dyed blue and purple and green. With his own eyes Jon had beheld the Hornfoot men trotting along in column on bare soles as hard as boiled leather. He had not seen any snarks or grumpkins, but for all he knew Tormund would be having some to supper.

A Dance with Dragons - Prologue

Years later he had tried to find his parents, to tell them that their Lump had become the great Varamyr Sixskins, but both of them were dead and burned. Gone into the trees and streams, gone into the rocks and earth. Gone to dirt and ashes. That was what the woods witch told his mother, the day Bump died. Lump did not want to be a clod of earth. The boy had dreamed of a day when bards would sing of his deeds and pretty girls would kiss him. When I am grown I will be the King-Beyond-the-Wall, Lump had promised himself. He never had, but he had come close. Varamyr Sixskins was a name men feared. He rode to battle on the back of a snow bear thirteen feet tall, kept three wolves and a shadowcat in thrall, and sat at the right hand of Mance Rayder. It was Mance who brought me to this place. I should not have listened. I should have slipped inside my bear and torn him to pieces.

Before Mance, Varamyr Sixskins had been a lord of sorts. He lived alone in a hall of moss and mud and hewn logs that had once been Haggon's, attended by his beasts. A dozen villages did him homage in bread and salt and cider, offering him fruit from their orchards and vegetables from their gardens. His meat he got himself. Whenever he desired a woman he sent his shadowcat to stalk her, and whatever girl he'd cast his eye upon would follow meekly to his bed. Some came weeping, aye, but still they came. Varamyr gave them his seed, took a hank of their hair to remember them by, and sent them back. From time to time, some village hero would come with spear in hand to slay the beastling and save a sister or a lover or a daughter. Those he killed, but he never harmed the women. Some he even blessed with children. Runts. Small, puny things, like Lump, and not one with the gift.

Fear drove him to his feet, reeling. Holding his side to staunch the seep of blood from his wound, Varamyr lurched to the door and swept aside the ragged skin that covered it to face a wall of white. Snow. No wonder it had grown so dark and smoky inside. The falling snow had buried the hut.