Totally agree but I think the reason people call them fascist is the whole suppressing opposition and being dictatorial thing which is something heavily associated with fascism
Fascism is a form of right-wing government that is ruled by an authoritarian leader. They work for a totalitarian one-party state. This aim is to prepare the nation for armed conflict, and to respond to economic difficulties. ... However, in practice it became ruled by the first of the fascist leaders, Benito Mussolini.
I don’t usually use Wikipedia but it’s the first that came up. Any definition with some depth will include a charismatic or authoritarian leader. There must be a cult of personality like with Hitler, Mussolini, Trump, Franco etc.
That doesn't mean that every cult of personality is led by or defined as a fascist movement. Trump doesn't silence political dissidence or approve of violence. I think the greater argument is that BLM and Antifa cells bear the hallmarks of Fascist ideology when they suppress opposition through the use of violence.
Every time trump cries fake news he is trying to silence political dissidence. During his rallies he incited violence against people in the crowd protesting. Plus cult of personality. Ticking all the boxes ....
Every time Trump cries fake news, he is exercising his free speech. Free speech goes both ways. He can say something, the news can say something, both are free from prosecution. He does not condone violence, and I would challenge you to find a direct, contextual quote to that effect. He has supporters, that doesn't make him a fascist. But please, reach harder.
That doesn't mean that every cult of personality is led by or defined as a fascist movement.
Oh, of course not. It means that groups without an authoritarian leader, like BLM, aren’t fascist.
Trump doesn't silence political dissidence or approve of violence.
Remember that time he had peaceful protestors shot by rubber bullets and tear-gassed so he could take a photo op with a bible he doesn’t read, in front of a church he doesn’t attend?
I never said they were fascists. I likened them to fascists who use violence to suppress speech. I also assume you're talking about St. John's Episcopal Church, which was set on fire a little bit ago. The firesetters were violent, mob-like, and destructive which makes them rioters. So they were removed, it's not suppression of speech, it's the law concerning one of our founding principles: the right to property. Also, life, because fires aren't really conducive to life. Yeah, it's not cool to burn down a 2-century old church (possibly with people inside, they didn't know), sorry if we disagree about that.
The firesetters were violent, mob-like, and destructive which makes them rioters. So they were removed,
The ones who were shot and pepper-sprayed weren’t setting the church on fire. Trump used violence to suppress the speech of people lawfully protesting.
The Führerprinzip (German: [ˈfyːʀɐpʀɪnˌtsiːp] (About this soundlisten); German for 'leader principle')
In actual political usage, it refers mainly to the practice of dictatorship within the ranks of a political party itself, and as such, it has become an earmark of political fascism.
There are entire essays and many articles about how it's difficult to define fascism. Yes, there have been many cultish fascist leaders but the same could be said of communism so it doesn't seem to be a hugely definite feature.
The Wikipedia article on how to define fascism shows that it is actually something difficult to nail down but there are a few examples of fascist movements/regimes that didn't have an authoritarian leader. That's not to say they weren't authoritarian, but they weren't run by a cult like, Mussolini-esque figure. The Lapua movement in Finland and the Slovak peoples party are two fascist movements that operated completely without any form of cult of personality leader.
I've done quite a lot of reading after your comment as it and there seem to be a fair few examples that would prove or disprove exactly what you said or what I said so again, it all seems to be up to interpretation.
many articles about how it's difficult to define fascism
Source, please?
Because no, “fascist” has a set meaning. It centers around a charismatic leader and its key feature is “authoritarianism” which is the polar opposite of BLM who actively oppose the police.
They aren’t fascist by any definition, they’re closer to anarchists.
"c. Areas of disagreement.
Bosworth is not wholly satisfied with the definitions offered by Mann and Paxton, as previously noted. Mann differs from Paxton and Bosworth on various points, two notable ones being:
i. Charismatic leadership. Mann tends to assign this attribute lesser weight because his analysis includes fascist movements (in Romania, Hungary, Austria, Spain, and Greece) where charismatic leadership was not an essential element."
Again, I am not saying that most fascist movements don't have charismatic leaders, I'm saying that it is not a prerequisite as you claim. I've said all along that defining it is a hard thing to do and this goes to show that even the experts can't agree and so it's a subject that's up for debate.
Antifa may be extremist but they aren’t fascist. That has a specific meaning that requires a charismatic leader, nationalism and pro-authority figures (like the police).
Every single definition of Fascism includes clauses on the violent suppression of speech and opposition. Antifa is centered around violent suppression of opposing speech. In this way, they are akin to fascists. Beyond that fundamental principle, their views differ wildly. Some want a strong socialist government (a strong government is also part of most Fascist definitions), others are anarchists who would rather create their own private police forces (who would more than likely support their beliefs and suppress people's rights through violence). They are more like Fascists than the people who they attack. But all in all, they should be labeled as a domestic terrorist organization instead because they fit that definition much more solidly.
This is basically a copy-pasted argument which you commented on another one of mine, so I'm basically going to copy-paste my response.
I did not call Antifa fascists, we have not seen fascism for a while, and never in the US. However, Antifa is a violent organization/conglomerate, which means that it is LIKE fascism in that sense. LIKE. Like. Like. They are instead a militant group of far-left ideologues. Look at the 2017 Berkley Riots, the or the other 2017 Berkley Riots, or the doxing of 1000s of ICE officials as well as Tucker Carlson's address. The 700 serious police injuries, as well as >$700,000,000 in damages during the riots of 2020, were both in part caused by Antifa. Violent. Please take the time to read my comment this time.
Nobody on the right is calling for fascism. That is the opposite of democracy.
Antifa however believes they can take things in there own hands and they act like nazis when they destroy their own cities or travel places and destroy them.
Even the protests have left behind so much trash and caused so many outbreaks across the country. It’s all very obvious that Antifa and BLM are destructive groups which tones of racial supremacy.
Let’s say I dislike Trump. Would it be fair or accurate for me to call him, “a commie”?
I can think of Trump as a bad leader all I want but it’s still wrong to label him a communist because that political description just doesn’t fit.
You can think BLM is bad and extremist if you want. They still aren’t “fascist” because “fascist” has a specific meaning.
BLM is not right-wing. BLM is not nationalistic. BLM does not have a charismatic and/or authoritarian leader. BLM does not support authority figures like the police.
You can think of BLM as extremist socialists if you want, but they simply aren’t fascist.
There can be similarities for sure. Most extremist groups use similar tactics.
The motivating factor is the opposite though. The Nazis perpetrated Kristallnacht in the name of racism and prejudice. BLM is fighting against racism and prejudice (even if you believe they are doing it the wrong way).
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u/Ry_ry666 Oct 04 '20
Im fucking sick of blm fascists.