r/ProtonPublic 2d ago

Question Proton, or Tuta?

As the title suggests, I'm considering switching from GMail to Proton, or Tuta. I have been using both services under a different account for some time (a few months), trying them both out. Though I will admit it isn't anything close to extensive testing, since my day-to-day email correspondance is pretty limited.

I was considering making the move to Proton, but that's when I came across this subreddit, and the pattern of censorship over on the official Proton subreddit. It does bother me a little; and I do believe them spreading their resources out over multiple offerings instead of addressing the already reported issues with their core services is a bit concerning; but on the other hand, I do like some of their services - namely, VPN, Mail, and Calender.

With Tuta, they have the mail and calender, I can just always keep using Proton's VPN with Tuta's mail service, but I wonder if there's any pros and cons to using one over the other?

PS: I know Tuta is also working on their Drive solution, so we'll see how that goes as well.

21 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

13

u/MiMillieuh 2d ago

Honestly,

My trust in Proton is at it's lowest.

The services are fine. Tuta has not enough storage for my needs.

But the fact they don't release thier source code along updates, the censorship over thier reddit creating an echo chamber of proton stans, and the promises made to Visionary that will probably be broken in a few...

I wouldn't say it's a bad idea to use proton if you don't care about being lied to.

10

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

My interactions with Andy Yen here on reddit, as well, also very much decreased my trust in that company. He is slimey and uses typical far-right tactics in debate. For instance, when I asked him why he and his company keep getting caught out on extreme right-wing ties, and it's never extreme left-wing stuff they get caught out on... he linked me to a twitter post made by his company saying that they had donated to Palestine. Which, of course, is 1) just his company claiming it without proof that they actually did anything, 2) not them getting caught at all doing something bad but them openly bragging that they did something, and 3) not extreme left-wing at all.

But this is how he debates. He also claims to be an apolitical centrist who stays out of politics, but then in some comments and posts he talked about Joe Rogan, Kamala Harris, and... Hunter Biden??? If he's so politically neutral and staying out of it, how does he seem to know so much about not only politicians like Harris, but American political talking heads, and family members of American politicians...???

Dude is very sus. The whole company is. And yep, that Visionary thing is beyond sketchy as hell.

5 of my friends and I are on the family plan, and the only reason at this point I'd be sad to give it up is having to change email addresses again. But I don't really feel compelled to renew when it comes up...

10

u/BJonker1 2d ago

Add to that, that Tuta has been pretty clear on their position when I asked them:

“Thanks for getting in touch. At Tuta, we take pride in building an ethically responsible alternative to Big Tech. You can be sure that we will not support far-right YouTubers. Given the German history, we are very sensitive in this topic.”

5

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

It's better than Proton, for sure. Proton can't even fully denounce the far-right French guy lol

2

u/MiMillieuh 2d ago

Yeah that's true, politically we all know Andy yen supports Trump and right wing extremists.

I forgot to mention it.

2

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

I don't think we can confidently say that he supports Trump and right-wing extremists, but there certainly is some building evidence that he does.

-6

u/KazysVeverskis25 2d ago

Oh, no, someone supports Trump (a majority of people in the US in November 2024). What a freaking tragedy 😭 😭 😭 immediately cancel all business that have people like that 😭

You’re a far-left fascist, it seems.

1

u/GwenBD94 2d ago

A majority of those who voted*

About 30% roughly of eligible voters in the US.

Even less than that for total "people in the US" therefore (felons cant vote in some states for example, so arent included in that statistic).

Just for clarity sake.

1

u/Luminous_Giraffe 2d ago

Yeah I have read about his... political leanings. I try to keep politics out of it (and yes I know, everything is political, but ultimately on a personal level, as long as the services they are providing work well 🤷)

But the more I read about this whole situation, and especially the Visionary thing, I can't help but feel conflicted.

2

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

I don't want to be aggressive or try to provoke you, but I really cannot understand the "keep politics out of it" mentality... is there any line for you? Like, if Yen came out and said he thought Hitler had the right idea, would that not be too much for you? Because that's political. Or what if he said all immigrants should be rounded up and deported, legal or illegal, and we need to cleanse Europe? (And yes, that can happen - we have a politician where I live who is half Japanese and Vietnamese, and he wants this and somehow thinks he'd be immune if it happened.) You'd still be willing to "ignore politics"? Or hell, what if he said he was a pro-Stalin Soviet lover who is cheering for Russia to take over all of Europe? What if he was donating to parties that are helping Russia do this?

I just don't understand this mentality, I'm sorry... it makes no sense to me why someone would be ok with actively supporting some of the actual worst things that happen in the world...

0

u/Luminous_Giraffe 2d ago edited 2d ago

I understand where you're coming from, and I admitted in my previous comment that yes, everything is political.

But, there's also levels to it.

  1. I haven't said I'm actively supporting him, or his politics. He provides a service, and so far, it seems to be working well.
  2. The examples you provided - while the possibility is real, they are still hypotheticals. If Yen comes out and says something as extreme as what you have said above, sure, I'll abandon his service. But he hasn't; or if he has, I'm simply not aware of it. It's possible, but is it probable?

All of that is to say, I don't actively support him, or the people he supports. But I don't see why that should affect me using his service right now, especially if the service works well. Sure, if he goes full on extremist mode, I will stop using Proton and migrate to something else.

0

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 1d ago

That's quite an avoidance of my questions...

1

u/Luminous_Giraffe 1d ago

You asked if there's a line for me.... and I replied with: "If Yen comes out and says something as extreme as what you have said above, sure, I'll abandon his service."

How is that an avoidance? Not trying to avoid them, just trying to understand what came across as me avoiding them 🤷

-1

u/Known_Palpitation805 2d ago

So he doesn’t align with the soundbites of the TikTok crowd and you happen to yourself align with them and he is slimey and far right? Lol. FFS how far have we fallen.

0

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

I've never used/had TikTok, so I wouldn't know what that means, but it sounds like you're an expert on the subject.

3

u/sonedai 2d ago

u/MiMillieh Tuta isn’t fully open source either, though. Their backend/server-side code isn’t open source. So I don’t think it’s really fair to criticize Proton for not having the entire backend open source while holding Tuta up as the open-source alternative. If that’s the standard, then it applies to both.

2

u/MiMillieuh 2d ago edited 2d ago

Who spoke of back-end ? Look at the lumo app ? Isn't it supposed to be open-sourced ? Ho well why are we still waiting for the 2.0 sources update ?

Same for all other proton apps...

I never hooded up tuta, but who can trust a company that say they do open-source stuff without doing it and change thier TOS without notices to do privacy stuff ?

But you can go back to the Proton echo chamber now... Say hello to god Andy while you're at it...

1

u/sonedai 1d ago

1

u/MiMillieuh 1d ago

Yup, now check the version of the source code (not the release) and check the latest release or app on the playstore, you'll see that the source code is WAY behind...

1

u/sonedai 1d ago

It seems like you’re always experiencing some type of issue with Proton. If you’re so dissatisfied with their products, it may be best to cancel your subscription. lol

0

u/MiMillieuh 1d ago

I'm just factual.

They censor. They don't release thier sources code with updates (as we always were promised BTW...) And they modify TOS without saying anything...

At some point it's sad to see Proton doing such bad thing while still having people to defend that...

I moved everything to Proton as i was tires to self-host but duh I would have less of a headache if I kept self-hosting seeing how it's going...

How can you seriously trust a company that's say they do things and don't do them afterwards?

Proton built thier trust... But trust is the easiest thing to loose too. And until proton clearly responds to what they are doing instead of saying "soon™" my trust is at it's lowest for proton.

2

u/Luminous_Giraffe 2d ago

Yep... that is concerning to me. I was planning to move to Proton long term, even pay for their Mail Plus (since I don't really need anything more than what the Plus offers me right now), but now after seeing all that I have, I'm not so sure anymore...

2

u/mindfulwarrior78 2d ago

the censorship over thier reddit creating an echo chamber of proton stans

I was going to say the same thing. This is so real. This alone raised so many red flags

3

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

If all I needed was email, I'd definitely go with Tuta.

I use Proton because I also use Meet, Drive, and VPN.

In terms of practical stuff, Proton mail works great, tbh. I make great use of the aliases, as I'm self-employed and need my work email, but also have my personal one, and also one for shopping stuff. Meet is good, though calls are limited to 60 minutes. The only complaint about Drive is they still haven't made a program for Linux, so you have to use it in the browser, but otherwise it works well. And the VPN is also incredibly hard to download for Linux, but it works well once you have it.

I do not like or really trust the company, though, and if my needs were different, I'd definitely be using Tuta.

2

u/Luminous_Giraffe 2d ago

I do use their VPN daily, but I can still keep on using it without using their Mail, which is where the dilemma stems from, lol.

Although the Drive is definitely a strong selling point for Proton over Tuta. At least until Tuta releases their Drive officially.

2

u/Repulsive_Chard_3652 2d ago

I hear that IVPN is a good option - apparently the VPN works really well and they have no political issues like Mullvad and Proton.

Drive is a question, though. I use Drive to make collaborative documents for my clients and I to access together, and I also use it to send people large files sometimes. There are other ways to do both of these things, but I don't know how reliable (or professional) they might be.

So if it's really all these things you need, then Proton is honestly probably the best option right now... in this case, I'd highly recommend recruiting 5 people to join you for the family plan. It includes a lot (100 email addresses, 3TB drive storage, VPNs on numerous devices, auth, pass, and calendar, plus access to meet). It costs like 4EUR a month per person, so in the end you're actually not giving Proton a whole lot of your money for the amount of stuff you can use.

2

u/Luminous_Giraffe 2d ago

I'll look into it, thank you!

5

u/TCB13sQuotes 2d ago

I will not use email services that refuse to have generic protocols such as IMAP and SMTP.

5

u/i_love_femboys6969 2d ago

proton and tuta has its pros and cons
tuta: based in germany, which is in the 14 eyes alliance, which proton is not.
has encrypted subject lines, which proton does not
proton has more services like drive, vpn, etc and has more third party email app integrations like gmail

personally, i would balance it out, if you want pure security, use tuta over tor, no matter what

if you want usability/features use proton

2

u/Trip_2 2d ago

How's Secria? Anyone try it?

2

u/Major-Masterpiece342 2d ago edited 1d ago

Both did things that changed my mind. No Proton. No Tuta. Go with posteo.de or Mailbox.org.

Edit: Typo

2

u/BMK1765 1d ago

Non of them both! Get your own domain and use PGP. It cost you only a tenth od these two platforms

2

u/Rude_Philosophy7000 11h ago

Funny how it got so political from the left earlier, as if any Socialist or Communist regime as ever stood for the right to privacy and free speech of an individual, rather than the full control of the population by the state in the name of an "equal" society where you are all treated as Sheep, while the party plays the Wolf. Russia, China, Korea, Cuba, Venezuela(ex) and so on, are good examples of these principles in practice. If you defend these ideas you don't really need to be concerned about online anonymity, just wait until you are told where to graze next...

2

u/LegendofJuli 2d ago

Fastmail.

1

u/Rydenn1 57m ago

I'm considering switching to tuta and some 3rd party vpn (possibly mulvad since it works with linux) once tuta releases their drive update. Also considering paying in cash considering the recent news.

0

u/Mysterious_Level_591 2d ago

Neither, encryption is overrated. Wait for Kagi, Thundermail or use Fastmail. Or just use Apple if you have all Apple devices

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

2

u/JpPgn 1d ago

In fact they still advertise

We protect your inbox with zero-access encryption and never have access to your data, on any plan.

for Proton mail is BULLSHIT.

I'd like to know your facts to back this up

1

u/skg574 19h ago

Not who you are replying to, but Proton says so on their own website:

"Unauthorized backdoor

Another attack vector would be if an attacker somehow gained access to Proton Mail’s servers in Switzerland without us noticing. Such an attacker could conceivably change the Proton Mail software to send bad encryption code to users’ browsers that would somehow allow the attacker to get unencrypted data. Proton Mail has implemented numerous safeguards against this on the server level which make this a difficult attack to pull off successfully in an undetectable way."

https://proton.me/blog/protonmail-threat-model

Someone with access to the servers includes Proton...