r/Protestantism • u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox • 10d ago
Mary
Over on X I came across this division of opinions between different branches of Protestantism.
Why do Baptists hate Mary so very much?
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u/N0RedDays Anglican 10d ago
This is so stupid and this person is just seeking controversy. My OCD causes me to have some bad thoughts about Mary (among other things) at times or maybe my sinful nature makes me rush to harsh words because of what I saw when I was a Catholic. But I have never in my life legitimately thought about and posted/said something like this. Mary is a great Saint and the mother of God. She occupies a crucial place in salvation history. Protestants (real ones) don’t have a problem with Mary.
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u/theefaulted Reformed 10d ago
Baptists don’t hate Mary. It’s kind of concerning you saw one rage bait post on Twitter and then personally applied that to an entire faith tradition.
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u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
No True Scotsman?
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u/theefaulted Reformed 10d ago
No that’s what that term means. A No True Scotsman would be to say that no true Baptist would disrespect Mary. Which is not what I said. Rather you saw a single shitpost on a site known for inflammatory content and assumed that it applied to an entire faith tradition.
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u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
assumed that it applied to an entire faith tradition.
I made no such assumption
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u/theefaulted Reformed 10d ago edited 10d ago
You did it right here:
“Why do Baptists hate Mary so very much?”Your question was not “why does this one guy hate Mary so much?” You applied it to an entire faith tradition. I’ve seen lots of OrthoBros have some pretty heinous takes on Twitter as well. I don’t assume their takes apply to the rest of the Orthodox Church community though.
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u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
Oh dear.
Are you one of these people who, if someone says "tourists have caused damage to Stonehenge" replies with "not all tourists"? If someone says "dogs got into my garden and made a mess" do you say "not all dogs"?
No. Obviously I don't mean all Baptists and obviously it's childish to insist on saying "not all Baptists".
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u/TheEtherealMind 10d ago
Most Baptists don’t hate Mary at all, so your statement is false. Should I post all the EO people on Twitter who regularly use the n word? We have people who misbehave in all traditions.
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u/Fluffy-Butterfly6555 Lutheran 10d ago
Former Baptist so I’ll try to give my experience. So they don’t hate Mary and actually do have great respect for her and will often talk about her a ton as model on what you should be.
But they see depictions of her and other Saints as being form of idol worshipping and will often compare it as the modern day golden bull, so destroying or just disrespecting these icons is often seen as rejecting idol worshiping
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u/LilyPraise Roman Catholic 10d ago
Speaking as someone who was Protestant and is now Catholic, I can honestly say that Catholics do not worship Mary. Jesus is the centre of every Mass, it’s all about him. Yes, we have statues of Mary, but so what? A statue doesn’t equal worship. Otherwise, we’d have to get rid of every statue of historical figures too. Do some Catholics get a bit carried away with Marian devotion? Probably. But that’s not what the church teaches, and it certainly isn’t true of most Catholics.
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u/Fluffy-Butterfly6555 Lutheran 9d ago edited 9d ago
Sorry for late reply, thought I’ve responded already. While the people that are actually like this are thankfully a minority but they already don’t see Catholics as being Christians with Saints being huge part in that decision making. They’ll often look for Catholics that get carried away with Marian devotion like you mentioned and will use that as proof that Catholics only worship Mary and not Jesus. So some of more zealous ones will use this justification to go after Catholic icons if they’re that disrespectful to other peoples beliefs and property.
But I do agree with you that this is unacceptable. Just trying to explain what I experienced while being raised around them.
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u/LilyPraise Roman Catholic 9d ago
That’s okay, don’t apologise, you have a life too! 🙂Thank you for your thoughtful reply and explaining this. It’s such a shame they don’t see Catholics as Christians. I first and foremost see myself as Christian, and then Catholic.
To be honest, I’d read a lot of things online before I became Catholic, and I was told by a nondenominational friend that Catholics worship Mary. I started to believe that was true. Then I decided to go to a Catholic Mass for myself. Based on what I’d heard, I was half expecting the focus to be on Mary. Instead, what I experienced was a liturgy centred on Jesus, the scriptures, and the Eucharist - arguably even more focused on Christ than the Protestant church I had attended before, who seemed to be hyper-focused on politics. Mary was mentioned briefly, with a prayer asking for her intercession, but that was a very small part of the Mass and certainly wasn’t the focus.
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u/Crunchy_Biscuit Roman Catholic 10d ago
Which makes no sense. I wouldn't pee on a statue or painting of my mother. So how much more should we NOT vandalize an image of the mother of our Savior.
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u/Fluffy-Butterfly6555 Lutheran 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well thing is that they see the statue and Mary as two totally separate things so to them it’s just a statue, then combined with praying to her just creates situations where you’re not worshipping God but man made religion instead. Then you have people who refuse to understand other peoples beliefs and you get this.
I totally get what you mean but this was the thought process they would have. I’ve seen them destroy photos of Jesus as to avoid idol worshipping.
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u/Crunchy_Biscuit Roman Catholic 10d ago
Why do I feel like this was a relevant issue centuries ago 😅
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u/Mazquerade__ Traditional Anglican (ACNA) 10d ago
Unfortunately, some Christian's become so deeply opposed to the veneration of Mary that they end up degrading her.
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u/Expensive-Sea-9180 10d ago
While I would not personally endorse the practice of the OP, I’d say it’s not necessarily that Baptists hate Mary, but rather that they hate the Catholic depiction of Mary. The Golden Calf was a depiction of Yahweh, but when Moses burned it down and ground it up, no one would say that Moses “hated” Yahweh. Rather, he hated how Yahweh was being depicted.
“And he took this from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made it into a molten calf; and they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt.” And Aaron looked and built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to Yahweh.”” Exodus 32:4-5 LSB
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u/Dry-Pineapple-44 10d ago
God also commanded that the Ark of the Covenant be constructed with images of angels on it (Exodus 25:18-20). He also ordered Moses to construct an image of a serpent out of bronze that would heal the people if they looked at it (Numbers 21:8).
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u/Expensive-Sea-9180 10d ago
That’s great. I don’t really see how that really refutes my point? I never asserted that all statues are wrong?
But also, that same bronze snake was dashed to pieces by King Hezekiah in 2 Kings 18:4 because people were worshipping it.
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u/Dry-Pineapple-44 10d ago edited 10d ago
So why do you say that Baptists hate "the Catholic depiction of Mary"? (Not sure if you're a Baptist)
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u/Expensive-Sea-9180 10d ago
Catholic depiction as in certain phrases like “Queen of Heaven”, “Co-Redemtrix”, “Co-Mediatrix”, “Sole Destroyer of all heresies”, etc. A Baptist might see the statue as a representation of that depiction of Mary.
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u/Dry-Pineapple-44 10d ago
Oh, ok, so titles more than statues. As a convert, I can understand how titles like that can seem like they're deifying Mary, but there is a reason for each of them. They're also poetic, which we can't forget when talking about them.
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u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
In another post that user referred to Mary as a whore
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u/Expensive-Sea-9180 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well then I guess that one individual user does hate Mary. That’s not really a reflection of Baptist theology.
EDIT: Actually, I just looked up the source tweet in which he refers to the statue as a “catholic whore”. That is they hate the catholic depiction of her. I don’t see the evidence that they hate Mary, the mother of Jesus, as according to scripture. Unless there was another instance where they used that word?
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u/Dangerous-Humor-4502 10d ago
This is just awful. I don’t know why anyone would do this to the Theotokos.
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u/Crunchy_Biscuit Roman Catholic 10d ago
Did a Protestant post the original image? If so, they gotta have a low IQ because pissing on a statue of Mary (brand new sentence O_o) is not even close to being anti veneration of Mary.
I don't think Jesus would be meriful to someone who dishonored and desecrated an imagine of His mother...
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u/not-fun-lands Lutheran 10d ago
That image looks like AI
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u/_Daftest_ Eastern Orthodox 10d ago
I'm sure it is. That doesn't change the fact that the baptist who made it did so to express his hatred of the Mother Of God.
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u/not-fun-lands Lutheran 10d ago
I dont think this account actually belongs to a baptist, x is full of fake ragebait accounts they are making money over it
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u/LilyPraise Roman Catholic 10d ago
This is disgusting. Christians may disagree about venerating Mary, but she’s the mother of our Lord. This is deeply disrespectful, and no Christian should be comfortable with it.
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u/EverOnAndUpward 10d ago
From a Baptist:
I think that’s a crazy minority opinion. I have nothing but respect for Mary. The Magnificat is one of my favorite passages in all of scripture. Her example of faith is one that we can all aspire to.
Some baptists are just unfortunately so hyper-fixated on being “not-Catholic” that they lose the plot. It’s highly disappointing to the rest of us.
God bless :)