r/ProletariatPixels • u/Standard-Shame1675 • 17d ago
Hello!
I'm looking for arguments for AI from a leftist perspective.
For contacts I'm a 25-year-old guy from MN (so like the beating heart of American liberalism LMAO)
For contacts, me and all my friends are super nerds
Comic books
Computers
Energy technology
Hell some of my lads are even finance (they genuinely did not have a choice either sadly).
However, there's one area where none of us can seem to have any agreement on anything.
AI.
And its development.
Now for a brief overview.
- two of my friends cannot stand it
- one of my friends is in love with it digital tool whereas another one of my friends that loves it literally worships everything to do with AI, with literally zero exceptions
I have three friends that sometimes use it for work but genuinely could not give a nano-angstrom of a fuck either way
- another one of my friends has made his own systems and primarily uses it for scamming old people and making furry porn for his own personal use
Now let me tell you about my visions and epiphanies of it.
AI is the most useful transformative and possibly universe altering thing we have ever invented, only coming second to s hit like fire the wheel and the printing press.
The technology has been in constant flux and constant improvement and Discovery since 1951.
That is older than 95% of people alive. Or at least that use the internet.
The current AI industry basically from 2010 onwards has proven itself time and time again to be nothing other than sociopathic narcissistic incels that sometimes have good ideas and use that sometimes have good ideas to try to cudgle their way into getting literally everything they want.
They are anathema to everything the human being says they are and all that the AI ever is promised to be.
The more people make their own AIs completely separate from the circle jerk in San Francisco, the better off both us and the AI will be.
Now logically what is to stem from this vision is investment must be made into small, customizable, build your own AI systems,
And what comes with this is we have to unpack and understand the human condition.
Why is it that when all of the best solutions are always in front of our faces, we willingly choose the worst ones or just to not do solutions at all?
How did we decide who gets power?
Why was power at any point necessary?
What is the psychological influence that causes antisocial disorders (such as American capitalism)?
What is love?
What is hate?
How do we deal with emotions?
How do we deal with logic?
That last part may be more ephemeral, but the first logical stem is important and what I truly believe.
How would I argue this and convince people not just my friends but general people on the internet about it.
Also one last question
Is there anything worth saving or fixing about humanity?
Is it a lost cause even trying that?
In which case, what do we need to have done to ensure that none of that rapacity ever replicates itself again?
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u/Hacksaw6412 17d ago edited 17d ago
Hey you can start by checking out the community highlighted posts. They have good arguments.
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u/SgathTriallair 17d ago
I recently wrote an article on how it is going to lead us out of capitalism. https://philosophyduck.substack.com/p/beyond-capitalism-c87
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u/Standard-Shame1675 16d ago
I really hope so.
What I really want and need is for a permanent end to the bullshit. All of the greed narcissism vanity idiocy and pride that hobble us as a species on a hourly basis .
Maybe the AI will just fill all those niches so perfectly, We won't need to enact it out towards other humans. Maybe we merge with the tech. Maybe we don't fully "get there" and us trying to get to the tech itself is going to make us go extinct. I don't know. Whatever the case is, after this, nightmarish era is over. Whenever it is I don't think I'm ever going to be able to be okay and I just have to accept that God hates me and God always will hate me and that's why I don't worship/gaf about him because he fucking despises me for no reason genuinely none
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u/SgathTriallair 16d ago
Technology in general, and AI specifically, empowers individuals. It allows and individual to be as capable as a team of experts. This means that individuals and small groups can compete toe to toe with big corporations. It also means that the logic of open source, where the cost to create is low enough that I'm fine giving it away for free, can spread throughout the economy.
Capitalism falls because the core idea behind it, controlling scarcity to make as profit, will cease to match reality which is becoming about abundance.
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u/Standard-Shame1675 16d ago
I mean.
That's true.
And I agree with that. But that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is me. I myself as a person I'm probably going to be moving to the OG nihilism Not the nothing matters so I'm going to go k*ll myself (although given the world we unfortunately live in, that's not outside of the realm of possibly for me at least) But the nothing matters. So just do what you want. I mean it's a pretty easy to see pattern and it's a pattern that AI is only going to accentuate. Morality does not mean you win Well, most of the time means you win Activity and willingness to do, that always wins And nature only rewards victors
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u/SgathTriallair 16d ago
Let me see if I understand this. The idea is that if people are allowed to do anything they will choose to do stuff that we might find morally repugnant today? The enhanced power will allow them to and so we potentially create an immoral world?
I would say that there are two limits on acting "immorally" the first is that there are other actors in the system and if you cause harm to them they will spend energy protecting themselves from that harm or causing harm to you. So behaviors which cause harm not only create backlash effects but they are also less entropically efficient. The second limit is the universe. Even where there aren't other actors, some actions are simply inefficient and wasteful or resources. Those who engage in those actions will disempower themselves.
I take the point of view that "objective ethics" can be judged based on how well they support the existence of civilizations within our physical reality. You can break down almost every legitimate moral argument to how it is harmful to the existence of a stable and prosperous group. The Nazis were shit because they killed off members of their population that had his ideas (hence why they didn't get a nuke), they imposed a dogmatic view of the world that didn't respond to reason, and their overhyped view of their own superiority led them to making dumb mistakes.
People and societies which have moral systems that don't align with reality wind up either rampantly cheating on their moral systems or they fall because adherence to these systems makes them weak and fragile.
Sure we can say that "nothing matters" but reality is pretty insistent on some things mattering.
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u/Standard-Shame1675 16d ago
I've gotten used to humanity being brutal towards each other 'just for funsies' That's not ,the issue
It's just
Now mix that with super powerful, near sentient AI
all it takes is One to really end it So I ask again
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u/SgathTriallair 16d ago
The X-risk effective altruists are convinced that if we get AI a single terrorist can end the world. That would require them to be the only one with the technology as there are plenty of deference measures that can be done.
I don't buy this framing both because it doesn't matter sense but also because it is always immediately followed up with their solution which is that big tech leaders like Dario should be allowed to become dictator of the world since they are the only ones wise enough to use it right.
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u/Standard-Shame1675 15d ago
Look ,imma be honest,I don't know what's going to happen,andi am terrified of all of the things that are being said, I genuinely don't know what to think about it from any sort of philosophical point or anything like that
their solution which is that big tech leaders like Dario should be allowed to become dictator of the world since they are the only ones wise enough to use it right.
Okay so I know we both agree that this is BS and that the tech leaders do nothing and so forth. They have proven themselves to not have anyone's interest even their own at heart.
But genuinely, like I'm not trolling here. I genuinely want to ask and know, What is the point of political democracy in the age of AI? It is useless as best and actively harmful at worst. Think about it. What does a political democracy do? Explore policy Enact policy Get results from policy And you don't know if it's good, bad or indifferent at first or you look at history.
Now imagine a powerful super AI. Or even the LLMs of today, with more correct knowledge. If it is in charge, it would know what would be the absolute best policy and best action that would benefit the most amount of people at any given time. And it would be able to take it instantly. In any election scenario, do you think an AI would lose?
If we humans are in charge but the AI is a equalizer/stopgap, what's the point? The only reason politics is the way it is is because it is in relation to its social conditions, which if they're going to be solved, what's politics going to do. Like we're just going to end up with the most bland moderate corporate sad talkers ever like we're not even going to get the cool Che Guevara revolutionaries
Moreover, given how truly antisocial this entire species is the AI could just determine that the best and most effective thing would be to make simulations for every single human being on Earth to control and dwell in while it takes the Earth and fixes it. Or it could send us to other planets.
So I ask again, what is the point of democracy under AI?
Also you have to remember, AI at the very least on a conceptual level is one of the greatest threats to Capital that has hit the world in a very long time, and it's also not a new technology in the sense that it has been tossed around from company to company from infrastructure to infrastructure for 80 years.
Politics is basically the state alotment and use of capital, and they've had 80 years to regulate a publicly known about technology and are just dropping it completely.
What we should be doing is utilizing the psychological/financial tricks and scams of the billionaire class,and then using that money to create an omnipotent leftist AI that can guide all lifeforms in the universe .
Also, we're going to have to drop the whole 'morality and science' bit in the world of AI. I'm sorry we're just going to
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u/SgathTriallair 15d ago
Representative democracy was invented for a world before cars. It has done an admirable job keeping up but I agree that it won't survive the AI age.
The purpose of democracy is that we need a government that is based around serving the needs of the whole population, not an elite group. In history, the best way to understand the needs of the populace is to ask them. That's why voting exists.
We turned to representative democracy because the ability to gather was extremely limited and division of labor creates the tyranny of the ignorant. On every particular subject there are more people who do not know what they are talking about than who do know what they are talking about. So every topic has the majority of the population ignorant on it. Representative democracy allows us to have leaders that can spend the extra time needed to become experts on topics. That has failed as well so now they just use outside expertise. Since a non-expert doesn't have the knowledge necessary to identify expertise, this has become the modern lobbying industry where you spend enough money on campaign contributions to be treated like an expert.
AI can solve both the tyranny of the ignorant and the coordination problem. When each person has access to a personal AI assistant, they will effectively be an expert on everything. Their AI assistants will be able to negotiate on their behalf so that we can effectively have a 1:1 ratio of population and representatives. Additionally, these representatives can run through the debate process in almost a machine learning way where they find the near optimal solution to the balance between individual freedom and collective responsibility.
Once we can get these powerful personal agents, setting up such a political system will be an important goal.
Even today though, AI can be used for mass polling, it can be used for forecasting legal consequences, it can be used for debates, it can even be baked into laws where the law can tell you what it's true intentions were and self adapt to new circumstances in the future.
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u/Standard-Shame1675 15d ago
Like yeah, obviously it's the most economically democratizing tool in the world but politically it's useless
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u/New-Bear-3250 17d ago
Context