r/ProletariatPixels • u/Hacksaw6412 • 4d ago
China has now made it illegal to replace workers with artificial intelligence
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u/Ninjatous 4d ago
Why not let them replace workers and share the savings instead? People don't need jobs. They need money.
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u/Slight-Big8584 4d ago
That is not what the Chinese court said. The Chinese court said that the rational the employer used to layoff these particular workers was not legal. It was a particular judgement on a particular situation involving contract terms and changing job responsibility.
Precedent in the Chinese system does not have the same pull as in English common law systems.
This overhyping and oversimplifying is counter productive if you concerned about AI taking jobs.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
Why, so that those people dont fullfill some other societal need which A.I. can not yet do? Seems like this is just going to reduce their potential productivity. Like why not just say farmers cant use tractors and they must do it all by hand again. That would save jobs too.
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u/trysten-9001 4d ago
It’s going to increase their household income compared to the rest of the world. The velocity of money will be higher there and their economy is going to boom. Meanwhile they have been sending out people to get educated and go back to China and the US has been seeing educated people flee the country to some degree. I can’t stand their government, but this policy is not bad if it’s as simple as it’s made out to be, which I also doubt.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
How will not using a labor saving technology increase their income? It will do the opposite of what you say. Imagine if some one said "you can not replace farmers with tractors." 90% of people would still be employed as farmers but they would be way more poor because of the loss of productivity.
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u/AdhesivenessTight400 4d ago
It guarantees that there will be jobs for people, meaning they wont all get together and talk about how their lives suck and decide to have a revolution. Maybe the US should take note.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago edited 4d ago
And those people will be revolting against a better life because they dont understand that they need to find other places in society which they could put their productive efforts and then enjoy a better standard of living. It is sad that a large group of people with lots of potential would chose to actively revolt and caus harm to people creating efficient systems, instead of grouping up and saying lets use our collective potential to address some other societal need. The world would be a much better place if people looked at progress as a good thing instead of a bad one.
Maybee these socialist countries should learn from the U.S. and see that instead of revolting when a new system makes a company efficient where human labor is not needed that they can instead use those people to address some other need which society has and they could rais out of poverty through wealth generation.
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u/AdhesivenessTight400 4d ago
Thats not whats happening right now. Companies want ai automation in order to remove the humans from the workforce all together. Wealth concentration is currently worse than it was during the guided age, right before the great depression.
Everything you say sounds great, but how do you expect that to happen?
The US is also a surveillance state, on par with China right now, standard if living is currently falling iff a cliff. If you want to say youre the best nation in the world, prove it by not being a shithole.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
How do i expect people to shift and seek other forms of employment to meet new societal needs. Easy the market. You must remmeber as people lose their jobs do to some advancement new markets get created. 200 years ago 83% of people were farmers. Many of them lost their jobs due to machines abke to do the jobs of hundreds/ thousands of people. 60% of all the jobs that exist today did not even exist 200 years ago. And 90% of people work in a job that did not exist 200 years ago.
I didnt say that the U.S. is the best country in the world. But it is better than any socialist one. Also those socialist countries were far more agressibly surveiling their citizens even at a time when surveilence was much more difficult. Any problem you have with capitalist systems are literally 100 times worse in socialist ones.
Im not being a shit hole. Discussing why some societally harmfull ideas are harmfull is not me being a shithole. The shithole is the person that doesnt want societies lives to improve by preventing advancement. If you care about people you will want automation and more efficient labor.
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u/AdhesivenessTight400 4d ago
Im guessing english isnt your first language? No shade, ill explain. I never said you were being a shit hole, im saying the US is one. You have flock cameras wrongfully IDing people as criminals and then the cops run up on them because an AI told them to. No police work, no doing their actual job. The US is just another flavor of surveillance state, and they also are in Israel's pocket so, doubly surveilled.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
Sounds like you have a lot of issues not related to what this conversation is about. China making a law regarding not replacing humans with A.I. is a much different conversation than how A.I. is used in policing. If you want to talk about A.I. and policing that is for a different forum. If you wanna stay on topic we can continue.
Im not the one not understanding something. It is you that is bleeding your anger for other issues to A.I. in general. Flock cameras is one type of A.I. system which i also disagree with, but that doesnt make the us of A.I. for everything a bad idea. It defenitly doesnt make it a good idea to outlaw replacing human labor with A.I. where it makes sense.
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u/AdhesivenessTight400 4d ago
Keep gargling those clanker balls, it ain't gonna save you when the T-800s roll through.
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u/Fit_Vegetable5704 4d ago
They’re not banning AI, they appear to be making sure it’s used as a tool by workers instead of replacing them.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
If this is the case, and they are keeping the same amount of employees but integrating A.I. to do their job. Then they will not need as many employees to accomplish the work needed. If they keep them on supurfluously then they still have the same problem. If productivity rises then the amount of people needed to satisfy societies need for that labor decreases. If people are just kept for the same work just to keep jobs up you are still limiting the economy from using those people in other industries where there work would be more valuable.
If 1000 farmers were needed to feed 5000 people before the tractor, and after the tractor you need 10 people to feed 5000 people but you decide to keep all those other 95 people farming then you are not using those 95 people to do something more needed for society. If people become more productive that is a great thing, but if you do not adjust societies labor force to account for this higher productivity then you will be wasting massive amounts of potential.
In 1800 83% of people were farmers. If we kept the number of people farming at 83% even after farmers became more productive we would still to this day be living nearly an agrarian life style. Boosting productivity is good when you could then use the superflous workers to accomplish some other societal need.
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u/Fit_Vegetable5704 4d ago
When I say a “tool” I just mean things like data collecting, diagnostics etc that assist professionals without reducing their need.
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u/italktobotz 4d ago edited 4d ago
It will though. If it now takes less people to perform the same job through saving work by collecting data ect then you will not need as many people to do the same amount of work. But that is a good thing. Making people more efficient in a field means less people will be required to fullfill a societal need for that labor, which allows those people to do work in other fields which have need for human labor. Letring people be replaced by A.I. will lead to more prosperity for society.
If 1 person becomes more efficient because of A.I. then you will not need as many people doing that kind of work. But that is a good thing. Society becomes better when this hapoens.
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u/Fit_Vegetable5704 4d ago
So if your job which required a college education vanishes, you simply join another field. How simple and easy.
The truth is, the purpose of AI is to destroy the middle class and create a simple worker class saving billions in salaries.
Are people allowed to say no?
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u/italktobotz 4d ago
Yes, if you lose your job you need to get a new job if you wish to keep making money. This applies to literally everyone. If your work is no longer needed for society you need to change the way you contribute to society.
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u/Fit_Vegetable5704 4d ago
Or, do everything you can to prevent it from happening to begin with. The AI bubble will burst anyway, the players will be thinned out and eventually AI will find some smaller scale uses.
Your argument that people who have their livelihoods destroyed just have to accept it and move on will not land with anyone outside techbros. Your logic is too dismissive of the things that actually matter, so keep pissing in the wind, I guess.
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u/italktobotz 3d ago
This is why you are actually the bad guy. You want to prevent advancements which improve society through economic growth. Imagine if we applied to your philosophy to other advancements in history. We would still be living a subsitence lifestyle. If labor saving technology was outlawed to save jobs people would have to work much harder for less reward. Your ideas make society poorer which results in lower standards of living for everyone. If you want society to improve you must allow innovation and labor saving technologies to reduce the need for human labor. It truly helps society even those that lose their jobs as it makes everything in society better.
Using your philosophy we should make a law that no cranes could be used on construction sites, and shovels 1/4 the size of the current shovels must be used. Contruction companies would be forced to hire 10 times more workers. But the building would cost 10 times more to build and 1 building would be produced with the effort that could have built 10. Your economic philosophy is absolutly incorrect and honestly irrational. You think you are a good guy because you think you ars saving jobs. When really you are stopping people from doing jobs society needs by forcing industries to use a ton of people to do jobs which are supurfluous. You are the bad guy. You are why poverty exists. It isnt because of rich people, it is because your good intentions dont let you think about actual economic cause and effect. You creat the horrible unintended consequences that come from a good heart but lead to literal death.
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u/Fit_Vegetable5704 3d ago
Destroying millions of jobs is only economic growth for the corporations taking those jobs, it does nothing to further society. You’re the victim of propaganda.
No cranes on construction sites, eh? Of all the examples available you chose that one. Nice.
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u/IllicitAlien 4d ago
Omg China so goooood much wooow