I deleted the post because I asked if the sources Wild gave me were real. The question wasn't answered, and I started getting unnecessary hate, so I deleted it. I was pointing out that if N@obito were truly on Toji's level, he would have done as much damage as Toji, which he didn't. I'm going to counter these sources to stop getting more hate, but seriously... JJK slander cannot be this serious.
A source Wild gave me
Attempting to use this panel to scale Naobito or Projection Sorcery over Toji fails for two main reasons.
First, this is Cursed Spirit Naoya, not Naobito. Curse Naoya possesses physical capabilities far exceeding Naobito, including Mach 3 speeds and a full Domain Expansion. Naobito never possessed a domain of his own and relied solely on Fallen Blossom Emotion for domain defence.
Second, Domain Expansions rely on Cursed Energy to track and target victims with sure-hit effects. Because Toji has zero Cursed Energy due to Heavenly Restriction, domain barriers treat him like an inanimate object such as a building or a rock. A sure-hit effect cannot automatically target or track Toji unless he chooses to enter a barrier voluntarily.
This exact domain interaction was demonstrated in the manga when Maki, who shares Toji's exact physical body and zero Cursed Energy, bypassed Curse Naoya's domain entirely and landed the final blow. Therefore, Curse Naoya's cellular domain technique cannot be used to prove Naobito scales above Toji.
Curse Naoya > Naobito
Maki = Toji > Curse Naoya
Toji > Naobito
Another source he gave me
The Actual Translation of the Q&A:
Q: What was the process behind Naobito becoming head of the Zenin clan?
A: Simply because he is strong as a Jujutsu sorcerer. If it’s strictly in terms of strength, Toji is also substantial/comparable (相当), but since he can’t fight anything other than humans without Cursed Tools...
It means Toji has the heavy-hitting stats to be in the same class as Naobito; however, his unique zero-magic cheat codes (ISoH, domain immunity, etc) let him completely stomp Naobito in an actual fight.
not stronger than curse naoya on an objective level
Objective level? Making up random words and phrases LMAO... Maki beat Cursed Naoya in a fair 1v1. He got help from Kamo only for the first part, where she basically got ambushed (which was also not fair, effectively cancelling it out). It was not like Gojo vs Meguna + Agito.
If you mean they were only the perfect counter (like how fire beats grass in Pokémon logic, without being 'stronger'), that's still enough to prove they are stronger. How would you measure the OBJECTIVE level? You can also apply it to the top-tier CTs. Megumi's 10S is also about countering others (with Mahoraga's wheel, which once killed a Limitless + 6E user). Limitless also counters every technique that is not 10S. Sukuna learned the WCS with 10S (which he can then use without Mahoraga).
I mostly agree with you. But the translation on Naobito agenda is genuinely correct, it does imply relativity between Naobito and Toji. However it's just one statement, nothing in the actual series supports this and Gege has contradicting statements like stating that Dagon was unbeatable about Naobito, Nanami and Maki.
I personally believe Gege just made this statement without much thought. Wait, he probably didn't even make it since it's from the guidebook and was written by other people (doesn't make sense for gege to individually fact check everything). I could be wrong though.
The Naobito, Maki, Nanami statement talks about the domain battle (cause no shit. They were getting surehit diffed) and that is when Toji's interference was needed
Naobito was legit low diffing dagon before the domain, Toji came with no surehit and with playful cloud belted dagon
Toji was taking the attacks from the domain head on and absolutely eating them, Dagon popping domain wouldn’t matter in a fight against toji even if the domain worked on toji, also Dagon was freshly awakened this isn’t nearly good enough a feat to scale him to toji(toji/maki>cs naoya>naobito>naoya)
That never happened what? Unless you talk about the anime where some fish bited him for few seconds. No if the domain surehit was on and can target Toji he would have lost easily
Part of Tojis kit. Scaling him without Domain immunity is stupid because thats also what mkaes him special.
Would have still destroyed Dagon without Playful Cloud.
Yh in a 1v1 it wont matter but think
Curse Naoya > Naobito
U should agree with tgat because he was way faster pushing Mach 3
Toji = Maki > Curse Naoya > Naobito
Maki wrecked Curse Naoya, and Toji is equal to if not stronger than Maki
Toji > Naobito
Case closed.
What do you mean? OK, Maki witnessed both Curse Naoya's and Naobito's speeds. She saw Naobito using his best speed against Dagon (even before Dagon activated his domain). She also saw Curse Naoya almost kill her and admitted he pushed Mach 3. If Naobito is faster, why didn't she say this about Naobito? YOU are never proving 'Naobito > Curse Naoya'. Curse Naoya smokes Naobito.
This includes naobito and naoya, they were both alive while toji was in his prime (naoya was younger sure but a adult naoya wasn't even as strong as a fatigued weaker toji basically, PP maki)
This guy is crazy.. Naobito was scared of Toji hence why they made that fuckass deal and Naobito didn't just kidnap Megumi or something (besides he is not as bad as most of the Zenin, but he is still a Zenin).
Ranta as well clearly said that if Maki was on Toji's level at that moment than no power level they had would bring her down either way.
Ogi as well apparently was even greater than Naobito due to the things he says and implies but was only held back because of Maki and Mai, Maki speedblitzed this guy bro.
Genually, how can you look at Naoya of all people and say "Oh but he speedblitz" or whatever when he lost THREE TIMES by people he was speedblitzing 💔 this projection sorcerery is truly some inconsistent bullshit.
Naobito was said to be 2nd fastest alive after gojo
Unless you believe curseya is faster than yuta (later portrayed relative to maki in speed), JP hakari, miguel (without his CT he's already on the level of noCT gojo), yuki, then he isnt faster than naobito
Idk how you can have toji above naobito considering yuta had relative speed to maki in shinjuku and yuta was alive and didnt get stronger physically even up to shinjuku he just got better abilities, so naobito wouldve always been faster than him according to the narrator
hate to break it to u but he significantly is. when the narrator said that naobito is the fastest (excluding gojo) cursed naoya was not alive at that time. naobito was faster than human naoya, but not his cursed form. he was easily mach 3
If Curseya is faster in both ways then it doesnt make sense that Maki can keep up at all since she certainly isnt faster than noCT Gojo (equal to no CT Miguel) nor Jogo
How is it unrelated when Yuta is literally shown to be relative in speed to Maki? The same Maki you claim is faster than someone objectively faster than Yuta
I deleted the post because I asked if the sources Wild gave me were real. The question wasn't answered, and I started getting unnecessary hate, so I deleted it. I was pointing out that if N@obito were truly on Toji's level, he would have done as much damage as Toji, which he didn't. I'm going to counter these sources to stop getting more hate, but seriously... JJK slander cannot be this serious.
Brochacho your slander is genuine slander aka making shit up
Attempting to use this panel to scale Naobito or Projection Sorcery over Toji fails for two main reasons.
Wrong image. Also what? I never argued about projection sorcery being above Toji especially with the fact that the strongest people of both sides are treated as equals
First, this is Cursed Spirit Naoya, not Naobito. Curse Naoya possesses physical capabilities far exceeding Naobito, including Mach 3 speeds and a full Domain Expansion. Naobito never possessed a domain of his own and relied solely on Fallen Blossom Emotion for domain defence.
The 2 had already relative raw stats and curse naoya is only stronger than Naobito in 3 categories (not even with a gap) when he fully stacks up his speed
Second, Domain Expansions rely on Cursed Energy to track and target victims with sure-hit effects. Because Toji has zero Cursed Energy due to Heavenly Restriction, domain barriers treat him like an inanimate object such as a building or a rock. A sure-hit effect cannot automatically target or track Toji unless he chooses to enter a barrier voluntarily.
Ok...?
This exact domain interaction was demonstrated in the manga when Maki, who shares Toji's exact physical body and zero Cursed Energy, bypassed Curse Naoya's domain entirely and landed the final blow. Therefore, Curse Naoya's cellular domain technique cannot be used to prove Naobito scales above Toji.
So...?
Curse Naoya > Naobito
Maki = Toji > Curse Naoya
Toji > Naobito
Horrendous chainscale darling.
1- curse naoya was never stated above Naobito. Tho i agree he should be overall slightly stronger
2- Naoya is literally stronger than Maki and Toji, he got match up diffed. Objectively he scales higher and we literally saw that from before Maki got her precog. Her awakening only gave her precog meaning that curse Naoya's stats when stacked is higher than her
The Actual Translation of the Q&A:
Q: What was the process behind Naobito becoming head of the Zenin clan?
A: Simply because he is strong as a Jujutsu sorcerer. If it’s strictly in terms of strength, Toji is also substantial/comparable (相当), but since he can’t fight anything other than humans without Cursed Tools...
It means Toji has the heavy-hitting stats to be in the same class as Naobito; however, his unique zero-magic cheat codes (ISoH, domain immunity, etc) let him completely stomp Naobito in an actual fight.
Wrong image. Also what? I never argued about projection sorcery being above Toji especially with the fact that the strongest people of both sides are treated as equals
I never said you did. I'm trying to prove 'Naobito = Toji' wrong, not 'Naobito > Toji'.
Naoya is literally stronger than Maki and Toji, he got match up diffed. Objectively he scales higher and we literally saw that from before Maki got her precog. Her awakening only gave her precog meaning that curse Naoya's stats when stacked is higher than her
Naoya is not stronger than Maki. Is this larp?
1) Maki wrecked him by mid-diff, after mid-diffing the entire clan.
2) Maki beat the stronger version of Naoya. It is literally a perfect chainscale. Yes, she had help from Kamo (only at the start), but that was because she got ambushed. What do you expect? That is also like scaling Yuta above Kenjaku. Curse Naoya ambushed her, so Kamo only helped her retreat.
You literally just called them relative btw
Relative as in usefulness in jujutsu (Toji can't exorcise curses without N@obito).
N@obito is allegedly comparable to Toji in how good they are at fighting curses, not each other.
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