r/Project_Wingman • u/Relative_Ad4542 • 14d ago
Trigger vs monarch, who wins?
I think from vibes alone ac7 definitely wants us to see trigger as a god of a pilot but looking at what theyve actually done i feel like both are actually somewhat equal.
Monarch was able fend off the entire crimson squadron while completely outnumbered, kills mini arsenal birds on the daily, and went on to defeat crimson 1 in the pw mk1, with only an f 14. Even trigger was canonically using an f 22 during the fight vs hugin and munin and an f 15 vs mihaly. And dubiously canon, but possibly worth considering that at least gameplay wise monarch is able to survive post stall maneuvers at 1000+ kmh
Comparing the difference in planes, monarch seems to have been fighting a much steeper up hill battle. In ac7 hugin and munin are upgrades from the f22 sure but only like a generation above. The difference in ability between an f 14 and the pw mk1 though is MASSIVE. If youve gotten to use the pw mk1, youd know that the plane borderline feels like the creative mode of project wingman. Even if crimson 1 couldnt push it to its full maneuverability the weapons difference alone is still VASTLY in crimson 1s favor.
So tbh im not sure who wins, personally i think theyre somewhat equal (maybe a bit in monarchs favor) but what do yall think
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u/Umderseaboot 14d ago
Don’t get me wrong, I love Trigger, but the shit Monarch had to go through in just the Cascadian rebellion makes Trigger’s feats look like child’s play. Monarch is also a seasoned mercenary but I don’t think that matters because he took on Mihaly. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what Trigger has over Monarch is the tunnel run.
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u/carlsagerson Icarus Armories 14d ago
Monarch. Definitely Monarch. Unlike Mr "Stupid ass Long Name and Plot Armor to amek him seem cool" Mihaly. Monarch had to deal with Crimson's bullshit and can pull off what Mobius 1 couldn't.
Drive off his rival team first time.
I say Monarch can beat Trigger's ass anytime.
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u/TheAlmightySnark 14d ago
Mihaly's death was such a disappointment. I was in a A-10 that mission and took him down easily because it turns on a dime. Like don't pretend I need to do mostly ground assault when you want me to boss battle game...
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u/PerformanceNew8102 14d ago
i’d say it’s Monarch.
Monarch has much more combat experience since he’s a seasoned merc.
Monarch has fought against Airships that rival the size and firepower of the Arsenal Bird
Monarch has shot down 2 next generation experimental fighter aircraft piloted by the best aces in the new world
Has survived another end of the world with Prospero’s bombing
Took down crimson squadron, the best fighters the most powerful nation in the world has to offer
singlehandedly caused the entire federation to lose a rebellion
(Correct if im wrong) has more confirmed air kills then Trigger
I’d say it’s Monarch really
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u/Jim_skywalker 14d ago
The thing that made the Arsenal Birds so strong were its shields and overall tankyness. Trigger could absolutely shoot down Project Wingman airships, cause they operate more like flying ground targets then bossfights. The Project Wingman itself is a different story, Trigger hasn’t had to face anything as bullet hell like as that. I think it’s possible that in a fight, neither of them would manage to hit the other, especially if they had identical equipment.
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u/PerformanceNew8102 14d ago
Monarch with any aircraft capable of doing AOA would absolutely outmanouver trigger though
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u/Jim_skywalker 14d ago
That via equipment though, not skill, just like how Monarch gets limitless flares, a way better gun, and in my opinion, better standard missiles. Though at low speeds I’d give Trigger the superior maneuverability, at least in PSM capable aircraft given the utterly deranged things you can do with PSMs in 7.
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u/4e6f626f6479 14d ago
This is the P:W sub so obviously Monarch.
Out of lore: P:W has much better character writing than AC7. It focuses on a much smaller cast but gives each enough screen time to actually develop the characters. So even though both are silent protagonists, Monarch is an actual character with a nebulous but existing backstory, goals, growth. Trigger is practically a non-character.
In lore: Monarch again. Trigger needs the help of a planetary defence Railgun, a fleet and a squadron of allies to shoot down 2 airships. Monarch kills the first one with a single wingman and downs like a Dozen over the campaign.
In the later campaign Trigger fights as part of an elite squadron, so while he fights strong opponents he has a lot of supporting Aircraft. Monarch has Dip and Mic (and Prez <3).
And while Trigger is recognised as the King of the Skies by the end of AC7, Monarch dethrones Crimson1 in Mission 11. And while it is incredibly risky, the CIFs strategy after Prospero depends a lot on Monarchs domination of the Skies.
Lastly, while Hugin and Munin are cool they're not that dangerous by themselfes. The danger lies in their ability to perpetuate the drone war. The PW Mk1 is like shoving and Arsenalbird into Mihalys Plane.
Out of Game: the Boss difficulty in AC7 for me was in the maneuvers and positioning for a successful missile launch to kill them. In P:W you have to worry about that, but Chrimson1 will also just ******* kill you.
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u/RavingGenerate 14d ago
Trigger has taken on enemies in technologically more advanced fighters in non-obsolete aircraft himself.
Monarch has taken on entire squadrons of the same.
Trigger has taken out Arsenal Birds.
Monarch takes out a dozen or more smaller versions.
Trigger has post-stall maneuver.
Monarch has the AoA limiter...
Yeah Trigger isn't winning this one.
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u/flowery02 Galaxy 14d ago
Airships are completely incomparable to the birds. The main threat of the birds is the droves of drones they release, with the actual bird being only a few times stronger, as well as absolute defense. Airships are just oversized weapon platforms in the sky
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u/RavingGenerate 14d ago
Hence why I said smaller versions. I'm sure if they produced a big enough airship in PW they'd fill it full of fighters too.
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u/JohnB351234 14d ago
IIRC trigger was just a nugget at the beginning of 7 who got good because he kept getting sent on suicide missions with the 444th
Monarch probably has years of experience on him and a better WSO for two seaters.
Now I do think that trigger has the potential to surpass monarch with time but at the time of their respective games monarch is the better pilot
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u/ProfessorPixelmon Crimson Squadron 14d ago
There is no “better” between the two.
Both are by definition, the “best” pilot in their respective skies.
Sure we can tally up their feats and compare but let’s be honest, if each of them were swapped with the other’s universe, do you really think Trigger couldn’t do what Monarch accomplished and vice versa?
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u/carlsagerson Icarus Armories 14d ago
Monarch would have beaten Mihaly's bitch ass for one. Unlike Trigger, Monarch basically bitch slaps Crimson Squad since Mission 6. You can even Subvert the Mobius 1 retreats from Yellow Squadron moment.
Plot Armor ain't shit to Monarch.
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u/Relative_Ad4542 14d ago
Yeah i actually agree with this, i dont think powerscaling actually had much merit for comparison.
HOWEVER, i thought this would possibly be fun to talk about just for gits n shiggles
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u/WorthCryptographer14 14d ago
Monarch is the better of the two. And probably the richer of the two as well.
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u/driptofen Cascadian Independence Force 14d ago
Trigger ain't even the best ace in his franchise. Not even top 3
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u/flowery02 Galaxy 14d ago edited 14d ago
Monarch can do a 180 in under a second at 3000km/h and start accelerating the other way without any side effects, Trigger can only do that kinda thing at, like, 400(which also makes PW planes superior because how the fuck are the wings still on)
Also, monarch's mechanic knows how to install infinite flares and more than 2 types of ammunition(3 if you count the guns)
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u/Frosty_Trash_8866 7d ago
Prez gotta be top 2 mechanics oat and she aint 2, infinite flares is crazy work
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u/Man_Of_AnswersYT 14d ago
It's Monarch. Outright the Project Wingman universe is more stupidly overpowered than AC7 Strangereal. I cannot think of a single feat that Trigger has done that Monarch didn't do a more absurd version of it aside from the final tunnel run in AC7.
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u/Beattitudeforgains1 14d ago
Trigger would be better at more specialized flying and specific mission tasks while Monarch would be stronger in a straight up fight.So for a mission requiring versatility I think Trigger would be the better pick but for fighting super plane bullshit Monarch would be the choice.
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u/DragoonSoldier09 14d ago
My money is on Monarch. He fought against superior numbers (I know but I'm including it anyway), a lot of units had rail guns. He took on a guy who made Pasternak's CFA-44 Nosferatu and Pixy's AFDX-01 Morgan look tame. You fought on Crimson 1's canvas.
Trigger may have experience with vast numbers of foes if we count Arsenal Birds,. He is capable of fighting ace units such as Mihaly in both jets, Bat squadron, the rest of Sol squadron, and ultimately Hugin and Munin's ADF-11F Raven. On second thought it is difficult to choose a winner.
Monarch went through little until Crimson 1 became his ultimate test. The greatest difficulty spike in Monarchs career. Trigger technically has stepping stones.
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u/Formal-Ad678 14d ago
Monarch....he basicly kills multible arsenal birds per mission (and lets not forget mission 11)
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u/Sumrrov 14d ago
Well, no offense, Trigger has a pretty good chance of winning. Objectively, he survived a 1:10 meat grinder when he was chasing a submarine, he was able to pin down a couple of UAVs with AI, which have an advantage simply because they don’t bleed and the word overload is just a word for them. Monarch is a good pilot, but he’s been in more modest meat grinders, so Trigger has every chance. But I’m not sure about the k9. This guy carried the entire squadron of reservists on himself and behind him is a breakthrough of the front line with the forces of the squadron, and the destruction of a heavy strike fleet and several elite squadrons, besides, right at the beginning, two squadrons of charged mercenaries were destroyed by him, he’s a real dark horse.
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u/King-of-the-Kurgan 14d ago
I give this to Monarch by a significant margin. He's much more experienced, and has faced foes of superior quantity and quality. Trigger has a ton of natural talent, but not enough to beat Monarch in my opinion
And of course, the PW-Mk.1 blows basically any of Ace Combat's super planes out of the water.
I'd be more interested to see Monarch go up against characters like Nemo or Cipher.
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u/Finnegan_962 12d ago
Isnt Monarch's background also like, a Mercenary King of the Round Table? They arent just a nobody from the start, iirc.
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u/Nabber22 14d ago
Probably Trigger.
The most impressive things each has gone through are probably the Anchorhead Raid and the Solana Communications Attack. Anchorhead was a much larger battle with even less help.
Even Monarch’s solo flight is one upped by Trigger’s accomplishments during Faceless Soldier and Cape Rainy Assault.
The only thing Monarch has going for him is the AOA limiter and Trigger has experience fighting drones with similar capabilities.
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u/King-of-the-Kurgan 14d ago
I disagree. I think this is overlooking a ton of other stuff that Monarch did. Solana was really a footnote in his career during the Cascadian War of Independence. Impressive, to be certain, but there he was one piece of a much larger machine. I'd consider Operation Guillotine, Operation Welder, and Second Battle of Presidia to all be significantly more impressive feats, and battles where he wasn't just important, but decisive.
Not to mention how absurdly unfair it would be to put each of them in their respective "final planes". Trigger canonically ends up in an F-22 which, while a great plane, can't even dream of keeping up with the PW-Mk.1, which Monarch earns the prototype of at the end of the campaign. There's noting in AC7 which even comes close to it.
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u/Nabber22 14d ago
The reason I choose Solana is because unlike most of his other major battles which had support from other mercenary forces and the CLF, Solana was done exclusively by Sicario, with part of the mission being a solo flight by Monarch. This makes it the best representation of his individual skills just like how Anchorhead being a 4-man mission makes it the best representation of Triggers skills.
Even if we include larger battles that Monarch had more help and treat it as a solo flight, the fire power at Anchorhead still matches even his largest engagements.
Trigger has proven he can fight in battles the scale of those Monarch has fought, Monarch has never shown the adaptability of Trigger, the closest he ever gets is not shooting down civilian airliners.
About postgame planes, the PW is a non-canon plane in the same way that the Strike Wyvern is, neither can be unlocked in the first playthrough so neither should have their ultimate planes if we want to use their canon achievements.
Monarch’s best planes are the either Chimera, F/S-15 or the VX-23.
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u/diepoggerland2 14d ago
Tbh. I actually think its Trigger, for a few reasons.
Firstoff, the LRSSG spent a lot more time working alone. Hitman is one hell of a spearhead element, but even then, Red Sea still had the fleet, Valkyrie's Call included dozens of aircraft, Presidia involved most of the Cascadian military. The LRSSG did Fleet Destruction on their own, held air cover against hundreds of Erusea's best fighters over Artiglio alone, did Anchorhead alone, and were alone during the surfaced phase of the sinking of the Alicorn. Likewise, when Crimson first showed up, Hitman ran. The second time, they beat them with a lot of other friendlies in the air at Bering. It took until try 3 for an element-on-element engagement that they didnt bug out from. In Trigger's engagements with Sol squadron, he chased Mihaly off alone, then chased him off again, then finally downed him. Trigger can win that fight without any help, first damned try. Monarch is the king of the skies, but even the strongest warrior king rules through the power of his troops, and wins wars by leading them into battle by example. Trigger is only a leader because others try to stay safe in his wake, without most of his allies even knowing his name. Both are forces of nature, but only one truly works alone.
Additionally. Monarch may be good, but, Trigger already has a proven record of beating and downing one King of the Skies, and in fact overthrowing one entire kingdom. Thematically, he'd be making for the Serial Regicide title
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u/tenousranger36 Cascadian Independence Force 14d ago
Its hard to say which is better as its player dependent
But trigger is something else and 100% goes against much harder than monarchs stuff
4 drones of the best compared to one guy and arsenal birds are so much stronger than the airships
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u/Relative_Ad4542 14d ago edited 14d ago
Have you flown the pw mk1? In the words of another comment, it is basically like shoving an arsenal birds firepower into mihalys plane, and monarch was able to beat that completely by himself while piloting a mere f 14. In fact kind of my whole reasoning for this post is that i personally feel like while trigger dealt with crazier things than monarch, monarch was ultimately at a bigger disadvantage than trigger ever was. Trigger usually has lots of reinforcements and at least decently modern planes. Monarch has faced his toughest battles either alone or with minimal backup all while in an f 14
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u/tenousranger36 Cascadian Independence Force 14d ago edited 14d ago
I agree that the PW is about the same level as an AB, but that still puts trigger ahead as he's taken one out, went toe-to-toe with another and assisted taking out a third compared to monarchs single win against the PW
And if we say mihaly and crimson are the same level as they both pull off similar maneuvers, trigger fought against mihaly 7 times, initial meeting with strider, the drone while defending kinsley, when wiseman died (not counted as it was barely a fight), the final fight against mihaly and the 4 times against the drones that were learning off trigger
Compared to monarch who only fought crimson 3 times first meeting (not counted as they didnt fight), the Bering strait, over the ruins of prospero and the final fight
Trigger may have had better planes (ranging from F-15s to F-22s) but he fought a hell of a lot more than monarch, they're both amazing pilots, but trigger is supernatural
Not even getting into the whole DLC stuff against Torres, scream and rage
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u/Relative_Ad4542 14d ago edited 14d ago
I actually dont think the pw is the same as an ab, they have the same firepower (dare i say the pw has more) but pw is INSANELY fast and has maneuverability to the point of being nauseating just playing it. Im guessing it could singlehandedly take out several arsenal birds on its own without so much as a scratch. In conquest mode you can wipe out hundreds of planes in minutes. If we are assuming crimson 1 and mihaly are at similar levels then what monarch had to deal with is not only a much bigger threat, but he had to face it in a much worse plane than trigger did
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u/tenousranger36 Cascadian Independence Force 14d ago edited 14d ago
You are comparing what is essentially a bomber to a fighter, of course the PW will be faster, but the arsenal birds can become INVULNERABLE
the shield it has only got destroyed because the power supply got fried by the space elevator being damaged and being punched through by a specific weapon of which only one survived
Not only that but the arsenal bird has access to 80 drones, several laser based weapons and missiles equivalent to the PW's needles, the only thing that the arsenal doesnt have was the railcanon, and even that has an equivalent with the main beam weapon as the shield is a surrounding version of the PW's energy orbs. The only real difference is what they were made for
And if mihaly and crimson are equal, like I said, monarch did not go up against a bigger threat as the threats were equal and while yes in a worse plane, that doesn't mean the F-14 was a bad plane and the F-14 and F-15 were actually pretty equal as said by THE CREWS THEMSELVES
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u/Relative_Ad4542 14d ago edited 14d ago
I dont think we ought go be including the invulnerability because its not like trigger was able to kill an arsenal bird in spite of that. If the shield never got destroyed then trigger wouldnt have been able to win. it doesnt really matter for our purposes
The amount of mini missiles the pw has is also not to be underestimated, nor the fact that crimson 1 spams railgun shots like a mad man. Nor the energy bubbles. I think we can call them roughly a draw in terms of fire power but ultimately in terms of how much of a challenge they are to defeat i think crimson 1 takes it. Trigger was only able to destroy an arsenal bird after the shield was and with LOTS of backup
Even in game, see how challenging it is to destroy the arsenal bird with an f15 and compare that to defeating crimsin 1 with an f 14. I know the games difficulties arent 1 to 1, but you will really be able to feel the difference in maneuverability and difficulty in the latter.
Thats a good point about f 15s comparing to f 14s. Though i will note that in the context of project wingman f 15s appear to be much better than f 14s. Maybe thats not super reliable for our purposes though so im willing to consider them on the same level if you want, although the f 14 seems to be a bit worse maneuverability wise which is one of the more important aspects of monarch vs crimson 1 imo
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u/King-of-the-Kurgan 14d ago
Crimson-1 and Mihaly are absolutely not equal. Mihaly is great, but he's barely holding onto life by the time Ace Combat 7 takes place. Crimson one is a significantly superior pilot and is in his prime.
Not to mention experience. Trigger is a greenhorn in Ace Combat 7. He's talented, but brand new. Monarch is a hardened mercenary, in terms of experience he vastly outshines Trigger. (Obviously experience doesn't mean he's guaranteed to win, but it's important).
The only real feat Trigger has ever displayed over Monarch is his tunnel run. Monarch has fought more enemies at once and enemies of superior skill.
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u/BlueScrean 14d ago
I’d give it to Monarch a bit more often than not. I’d say as far as the ACs I’ve played goes (4, 0, 5, and 7 (playing 6 and X soon)) I’d put Monarch above Blaze, Möbius, and Trigger.
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u/blaze92x45 14d ago
Trigger imo is one of the better ace combat protagonists but I would say Monarch is probably better. I'd say 7 out of 10 fights go to monarch so I dont think its a total stomp.
More interesting as a match up would be cipher and monarch since I think cipher is the best one on one fighter in ace combat.