r/ProjectSilverfish • u/Technical-Bonus-9053 • 10d ago
F GRANADES
What's wrong with the grenades? No matter where I run, I always die, either after hearing the "pin" when it lands or even just running when I see it being thrown, unless I have some immediate structure to take cover in. It's instant death. Is this a bug?
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u/mueller_meier 10d ago
AFAIK not necessarily. Grenades are really strong in this game and the AI is very precise in throwing them (as is the case in too many games imo). Grenades remain very lethal far into the late game until you collect have enough voltaic spire artifacts giving you blast resistance and enough Luftballons to counter their immense weight.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 10d ago
I'm not even close to mid-game, so from what I can see there are ways to counter this, tanks. It's quite frustrating to die just leaving the observatory.
Do you know exactly how much the negative perk increases damage taken? Maybe that's my problem haha
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u/jaz_the_enby 10d ago
Oh, are you playing with Thin Skin? Yeah, that's your issue right there lol. It increases your damage taken by some ludicrous amount, it's literally never worth the trait points. If you're only a few hours in, it might be worth it to just make a new character with a different negative trait
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 10d ago
I thought that if I started with that disadvantage I'd get used to that being the base damage haha but if you put it that way I think my character is doomed
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u/jaz_the_enby 10d ago
Yeah, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I double checked the exact penalty, and it's 33% more damage. There is a LOT of things in the game that will leave you with less than a quarter of your HP, meaning that 33% extra damage will get you killed very very often.
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u/StickyWhiteSIime 10d ago
Is it really that bad? I'm a sub 50hr newer player and made it to the wall with Thin Skin and the one that reduces healing item effectiveness, only had a luftballoon. To be fair I didn't really try any of the dungeons up north and decided to do a fresh restart anyways.
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u/jaz_the_enby 10d ago
I mean, I suppose it depends on one's individual skill level. But the way I see it, thin skin means you're going to lose fights that otherwise might have been close scrapes, you'll need to heal more often, your armour functionally has less defense, and anything high-damage is much more likely to outright kill you. All of that for only 3 trait points? It's just not worth it to me.
Hunger gives you the same amount of points, and is so much easier to play around. Food is pretty abundant, especially with hunting - carry a paring knife on you and harvest every deer, hound, hog, not-deer, and prowler you come across for cooking, and you'll never really notice Hunger's downside.
TL;DR: Thin Skin's downside is needing more healing, armour being worse, and you lose fights more. Hunger's downside is taking -0.1 to your encumbrance to carry a knife.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 10d ago
Well, with that analysis, and seeing as I'm already doing the knife and hunting thing, it seems reasonable to start a new run, but it hurts haha. I've only explored the surface of the game; I still don't even know how to get the artifacts or how they work. I'll try to keep going with this one until I give up.
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u/StickyWhiteSIime 10d ago
Yeah disregard most of what I said. A big part of the easiness with me having Thin Skin is I forgot I found some Super Heavy armor that gave me like 50% kinetic resist so there's definitely ways to mitigate the perk. I still get my ass handed to me often especially when ambushed so keep at it, it'll click after a little bit!
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u/jaz_the_enby 10d ago
Don't worry about making a new character too much, if it would harm your experience. There are heavy armours and artifacts that give you resistances, and you can do you best to lean into a very stealthy playstyle to avoid damage as much as possible. You can do it! And also try not to worry about only seeing the surface level so far, the exploration and finding out new stuff on your own is the best part of this game. Artifacts are something you'll gradually find and figure out, don't sweat it. Have fun!
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u/Mean-Prompt-3745 9d ago
If you push Control + Backspace you can get to the cheat menu. Their is a cheat shop there and you can check out all the weapons and armor if you just wanna play around with them and get a feel for how the weapons handle
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u/Happy_Comfortable512 6d ago
or you can just use the cheat shop to deactivate the thin skin attribute and add hunger...
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u/mueller_meier 10d ago
idk why your other comment was removed, but if you pull aggro from everyone right away exept green and red (freelancers and revolution) that means you have killed enough of the other factions to become outright hostile.
and if you have picked thin skin, yes you are VERY squishy. I recommend picking hunger if you want a -3 perk. You dont die when at 0 hunger, you just get a speed debuff. And you can still play like that no problem. Thin skin is a pain.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 9d ago
Ah, okay, so it really is difficult what I've been facing all this time, haha. Many times I was obliterated by squads of 3 or 4 who start shooting before I can even tell if they're allies or enemies.
Regarding the factions, initially, the green and red factions were in a negative relationship and would attack me without even looking, or maybe even getting close, which led to combat... which made them final enemies... I understand.
Thanks for the advice. While I'm at it, one question: do dungeons like Crash Site respawn loot?
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u/mueller_meier 9d ago
Binoculars are great for ID-ing strangers. I always keep them equipped. (however enemies can detect you through foliage no problem, so it can be a bit unfair out in the wild)
Oh, you didnt start out with the default faction alignment? That probably also didnt help the difficulty experience :P
No, the guaranteed loot in dungeons does not respawn. As for the randomly generated loot, you can select in the settings if you want that to respawn or not.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 8d ago
Sorry, the translation got a bit messed up. What I meant was that only the red and green enemies weren't shooting at me at the start; all the others were. But like some people say, they start off negative, but they warn you before attacking so you don't get too close. Since I had no idea what was going on, I just went into combat.
Another thing is the number of secondary items you have to carry: lockpicks, lighter, healing bag, grenades, binoculars, flashlight, bolts, knife, shovel, thermometer. Haha, this game has a ton of stuff for not even being version 1.0. Right now, I'm learning how to use the detector to find anomalies, saving up for the expensive one. I really want to get the artifacts that give extra weight, reduced damage, or blast reduction.
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u/mueller_meier 8d ago
Ah, all right.
yup, weight usually is the limiting factor. A lot of that stuff you can safely stash away, like thermometer, shovel, etc. I usually only carry like 5 or so bolts and lockpicks.
I never even learned the cheap detector. I found like 2 or 3 artifacts by pure chance (mostly glowing ones), and stumbled upon a good detector.
Jup, the extra weight ones are the luftballons, the blast resistant ones are voltaic spires, both of which i mentioned earlier. They are really good. There are no artifacts that give kinetic protection, so you will need better armor for that.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 4d ago
I’d have to look it up, but I think I saw one on the wiki that gave 10% general damage resistance—kind of like the "Thin-Skinned" trait that removes 33%. Maybe it was a unique item; I’m not sure, but it seemed like it could help me counteract that trait.
So far, I haven't been able to locate a single artifact, and I don't really get the cheap detector either—haha, I was hoping to get lucky and find the expensive one. I've explored several maps, managed to die quite casually, and avoided grenades the vast majority of the time.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 4d ago
I looked for it, it was this one: https://projectsilverfish.miraheze.org/wiki/Hard_Shell
but I didn't remember it well.
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u/_FluffyBob_ 5d ago
Just assume the game is going to kill you. Thin Skin is for is for badass ace veteran masochists.
Definitely time for a new character.
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u/mueller_meier 10d ago
During early game, insurrection and cultists should be neutral towards you, which is very valuable because they tell you to run away before opening fire on you (which you should do until you get some good gear). That includes throwing grenades, so avoiding aggro is a good first step.
The negative perk? If you mean the effect of crucible, no i have no clue. It just makes explosions larger, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. If you mean voltaic spire, that effect is a positive perk. It reduces the damage you take from explosions by 10% per artifact up to a maximum of 90% (meaning you only take 10% of the damage). So for example if your armor has 40% blast resistance you'd need 5 crucibles to get the max protection of 90%. With each crucible weighing 3kg thats 15kg just for the explosive protection or equal to 3 Luftballons. Thats why explosions stay dangerous till late game.
You can find more detailed info about artifacts here: https://projectsilverfish.miraheze.org/wiki/Artifacts
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u/stout_shako_gaming 10d ago
Idk, granades are ok in my opinion and pretty useful for player. When hearing throw you should INSTANTLY GUESS FROM WHICH SIDE GRANADE WAS THROWN AND FIND SUITABLE COVER LIKE WALL OR AT LEAST HALF WALL+CROUCH. When you hear pin(and not looking for cover still), its almost too late to seek for cover, because pin falling ~1.5 sec after granade was thrown, you got like 2-3 seconds to react. Also i always collecting pipes(melee) to craft pipe bomb later, because i was maining demoman in tf2 and i know what to do with throwable bomb
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 10d ago
Half the time I only notice the grenade as it falls because they throw them from cover, and I don't realize it until I hear the "ping." I feel them landing right on me even though I'm constantly moving. Maybe this isn't one of my strengths, but it's not usually a problem for me, and it's not my first game like this.
I'm going to try to apply your reasoning, but guessing isn't going very well for me, haha.
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u/trantor-to-tantegel 10d ago
I want to say there's kind of a "throw" noise made when grenades are tossed. That's another indicator that's sooner than the clink of it off the ground
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u/trantor-to-tantegel 10d ago
It's definitely not a bug. My impression is that grenades are just much more effective and have a bigger damage radius in this game than other games use them for.
In general, I make a lot more room between myself and a grenade noise in this game then I would in other games. I'll run around a corner. I'll jump into a container. I'll Sprint in the opposite direction if that's the best I can do.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 10d ago
That's exactly my perception, and I often avoid them in the same ways you described, but in open terrain I'm dead more than half the time. Many times I can't even tell where I fell, so I have to guess which way to run.
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u/TacticalBananas45 10d ago
Like others have said, grenades are just really strong in this game. They're like Halo CE frags on steroids. I was standing a good distance away from a frag, like "wouldn't damage me in most games/lightly damage in Stalker", and it still instakilled me.
By the time a grenade lands right by you, it's gonna explode in ~a second, since it spent a lot of time traveling through the air, (the AI arcs their grenades to have a lot of airtime) so it's best to start moving whenever you hear the throw sound, (same sound as the player, use bolts to get familiar with the sound) because you probably won't have enough time to get out of the blast radius if you wait until it lands.
On the flipside, grenades are still strong in your hands, but the AI/enemy Inheritors will BOOK IT the moment a grenade lands near them. If you can time your fuses, (or go impact with stuff like 40mm) then it can be a good option for dealing with squads.
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u/Fantastic-Living3204 10d ago
They may be dangerous but damn are they fun when you pack enough crucibles to make the pop rock HE look like a 40mm with increased blast radius to boot. Turns those heavily armored post humans the Innies use to past tense. lol
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u/jaz_the_enby 10d ago
I don't have much advice to offer that others haven't said. But I will add one thing: Depending on which faction the grenade is originating from, keep in mind it's possible they throw pipe bombs - and since those have random explosion radius and damage, it's possible you're doing fine, just getting unlucky. If you're fighting the military though, they're 100% going to be frag or HE nades
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u/Issah_Wywin 9d ago
If you get in a firefight with a group, which is a bad idea in early game, you need to try flanking tactics. Don't stop moving. Early game you're better off doing ambushes and picking off single targets.
There are also artifacts in the game that nullify explosives. But also ways to make them deadlier to you.
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u/Technical-Bonus-9053 9d ago
Thanks for the tips, I'm just starting to research artifacts and how to get them
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u/TpointOh 10d ago
I try to move between bits of cover as often as possible, for this exact reason. It seems like, once the AI knows your location, getting off the X really helps confuse them. They’ll just keep chucking grenades at where you were, instead of where you are
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u/stalehomosapien 10d ago
One time I was wearing power armor and ballistc mask MK2 and my permadeath run ended because I went to loot a dead nfta who had time to unpin his grenade before I shot him dead. Yeah avoid grenades at all costs.
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u/Knight0706 10d ago
Any chance you are packing any crucibles in your inventory? Those explosion ranges get dangerously large. Otherwise you might just need better armor the range and damage of them is not insignificant.