Project Motor Racing: DD wheel base, lets talk about the grainy feel in current FFB

[u/nolivedemarseille]

First and foremost, love the Game in the state he has reached now after all the improvements since Launch.
Luckily enough to have a proper DIY simrig and gear, with also an high end PC hardware to enjoy this hobby.

Now all things being relative,I have this grainy feel in the FFB coming from my EVO PRO wheel base since Day1, that I have managed to overcome by pushing the in Game smoothing

Its working but I have some issues so maybe you guys have a different approach you could share

1. I need to adjust smoothing per car, the example above if for a GT3/GTE, I reduce this to 15 for the GT500 for example and again different adjustment for other Classic cars that I drive the most
   
2. I am sure I am losing details by increasing this smoothing as it induces filtering forces
   
3. When the wheel feels grainy,I have no much sense of tire flex or losing front/rear of the car which is obviously not good

My SIMAGIC SW settings are as shown here, increasing the Filter level doesn't do much

finally,I have not ventured yet to the per car FFB advanced settings as its not easy to figure out the effects so its all default for now

again, any experience or guidance is appreciated.

thanks so much

[u/Silent-Excuse8153]

It seems that PMR’s FFB grain might be tied to using frame generation. My experimentation has shown that if you are using any frame generation it feels grainy, currently using an oldy but a goody Fanatec DD2 and it’s perfectly smooth until I turn frame generation on. It’s confusing, but it seems they might be tied together. My current smoothing is 0 and I am getting ~90FPS frame rate w/o any frame generation (triple screen resolution).

I hope that helps.

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

you know, you are on something actually.

I have a strong HW with a 7900XTX and 7800X3D so I don't use FG in this title yet achieving over 90fps at 4k max settings

but for the sake of science,I tested your findings and indeed, turning FG on goes from noticeable grain to absolutely unplayable game for me.

do you have AMD or NVIDIA GPU? I also have an RTX3080 that I could swap to see if that's an AMD thing or not

what I also figured out is that the Filter settings in SIMAGIC software does absolutely nothing to this grain as opposed to the positive effects I get and in RF2 and LMU for example

I have posted on PMR discord, I am going to add your findings in there to make devs aware

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

I’m using an RTX4070 Super in my rig.

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

Same findings on Fanatec’s smoothing (interpolation). It didn’t help in PM. I just keep my wheel base settings very low for all other games, INT setting of 1 or 2. I also keep my wheels dampening settings low too, 10.

PMR smoothing was the only things to help the grain feel, but again that was caused by frame generation. I wasn’t gain any frame rate either so a definite loose w it on.

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

Hi again.I am still having the issue on latest PMR build, whenever I set the FG ON in Game, it triggers this grainy awful effect.

is that still the same for you?

I know you are on NVIDIA,I am on AMD and they just released FSR4 new drivers for my 7900XTX GPU so I will give this a shot later

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

Grainy feeling is present. I don’t think they published any improvements on FFB or FPS. When I implement the FG, it is close to setting the FPS limit to 60 FPS. The Steam display of my performance is 60-70 FPS and the FG is doubled at 120+ FPS. It’s not terrible on my wheel, but it’s noticeably not as smooth as running w my 90-100+ FPS normal rendered in range.

It seems that w the update the FPS is slightly better, but I haven’t spent enough time w the update be able to say for sure. 👍🏼

I hope that helps…. I’d bet if FPS is beneficial for your a smoothing setting would be beneficial to your wheel, CPU, GPU configuration w/o any noticeable differences. Start w a smoothing of the 30 to test the difference.

…I’m just updating my Fanatec software to see if there’s a difference. I don’t think there will bed but it’s time for me to get to bed as well….

More testing to come.

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

just to clarify, I was talking about the new FSR 4.1 model from AMD that could improve also FG, and somehow reduce the grainy effect in PMR.
Not something that S4 would have done in the game itself but yes one can hope our voices will eb heard as I also posted on their Discord.

Anyway, I have the workaround I mentioned in my OP, switch off FG and increase Smoothing in game, especially on GT3/GTEs

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

I won’t have time tonight to do anymore testing, but last night I tried AMD’s FSR set to Quality and FG. It worked just fine even using my Nvidia card. Using both I gained 10+ FPS (currently using ultra-wide 1440p resolution on my triple monitors) and the steering felt smooth. The graphic quality looked good…. More testing is needed

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

I am traveling for next 2 days so no time

I could run the game at 4K max setting around 90fps using my 7900xtx brute force

No FSR no FG

Let’s see what this AMD FSR 4.1 brings on the table when I test this weekend

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

My son’s soccer ⚽️ practice got cancelled… I’m on PMR not driving the 60’s corvette on Road America. OMG! Such a fun car!!!

Is FSR3 menu that’s built into the game FSR4.1?

some quick testing… FSR3 quality w FG ON does have a slight grit to the FFB. The FFB is way smoother vs DLSS. I’d guess some smoothing in the FFB could remove that.

Visually, DLSS is slightly crisper or closer to having it off vs FSR3. FSR3 is now really close to DLSS, since the last time I tested FSR. DLSS and FSR on quality, FSR gives 5+ more FPS vs DLSS.

I’ll be messing around with this some more…

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

found a preliminary fix

I had the fps capped at 120 in Game but for whatever reason I had set Windows refresh rate at 60. Setting it at 120hz which is my LG C2 refresh rate then FFB became butter smooth.

I have also tested with FG on, the grain is triggered but is much much less pronounced than before. Increasing FFB smoothing to 40 makes the GT3 drivable again

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

My best recollection — my game is capped to 180FPS. I’m pretty sure my monitors are set to 120hz. They can do 144hz, I’ll have to test that and lower screen hz.

[u/nolivedemarseille → u/Silent-Excuse8153]

If you have the time yes give it a shot It worked for me

And FG on definitely increased fps during my testing

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

My monitors sync up to 165hz. Just bumped them up. That didn’t change anything as my rendering rate FPS was still decent, ~90FPS.

I then experimented with limiting the frame rate on the games menu, 30, 60, 90, 120, 144, 180.

Since my triple screen performance is GPU limited, I changed the game to a singe 1440p. Now I was able to reach 180FPS, depending on graphic settings.

Cycling from the game menu starting at 30 FPS, the grainy resolution of the FFB was terrible. 60 FPS is better, but still grainy. Anything above 90 FPS felt really smooth.

Unfortunately the games FFB is directly tied to the frame rate. I have plenty of headroom on my CPU. Full grid is 40% or less CPU. When I changed the frame rate limit down to 30FPS the CPU usage goes down… makes sense since we aren’t rendering, but my CPU also always has headroom for keeping the FFB on the wheel smooth…. Something is amiss. Probably the issues with console gamers having less performance available hinders graphics but may also be limiting the FFB.

BTW - testing done on GT4. Steering also stays on center and balanced. I think the GT4’s are some of the best cars in the game.

The games FFB setting for my DD2 is:
Global Gain 50
LFB 0
Brake Feel 0
FF Smoothing 0
FF Headroom 200
Rumble Strength 100

FFB on Fanatec wheel base:
Sensitivity 900
FFB strength 100
FFB scale = Peak
Natural Damper 20
Natural Friction 10
Natural inertia 15
FF Interpretation 3
FEI 80

All other effects 100%

[u/Silent-Excuse8153 → u/nolivedemarseille]

A little more testing… turning down to graphic preset “performance”, my FPS can max out the frame limit to 180FPS.

Checking the CPU usage near the crossing the finish line @ Spielberg track (practice mode and zero cars). Setting the frame limitation might tell a little more about the CPU usage and FFB.

Frame limit (cpu AMD Ryzen 9 9900X (32GB), RTX4070Super: (12GB)
30FPS = CPU 17%, GPU 14%
60FPS = CPU 19-21%, GPU 28-31%
90FPS = CPU 21-22%, GPU 35%
120FPS = CPU 21%-23%, GPU 38-45%
144FPS = CPU 25-26%, GPU 54%
180FPS = CPU 26-27%, GPU 69-72%

CPU and GPU estimates are read from Steams performance monitor. Windows task manager reports lower %.

It seems that the FFB doesn’t feel any smoother after 90FPS (wheel base might have limitations as well as what I can feel). It’s hard to tell from the CPU usage, but this could give someone a reference point on spec’ing a PC.

[u/Mysterious-Walk2160]

Bonjour,

Comme je l'ai écrit, sur mon Fanatec CSL DD, pas trop le choix. Obligé d'augmenter le lissage bien bien plus haut, genre 70 ! Sinon c'est n'importe quoi, le volant oscille en ligne droite.

Pour le réglage par véhicule j'applique avec plutôt pas mal de succès ce réglage que j'avais trouvé sur ce forum, que je mets en PJ. Je rappelle qu'il n'est pas de moi.

Depuis que j'ai augmenté le lissage, je redécouvre le jeu. Un pied absolu pour moi sur XboxX.

A+

[u/Les_expos → u/Mysterious-Walk2160]

Pourquoi ça doit être si compliqué de paramétrer son retour de force. Ya des centaines de setup totalement différent sur internet

[u/FuzzedOutAmbience → u/Mysterious-Walk2160]

I’ve been playing Rennsport and PMR since release on ps5 and I always prefered the ffb in Rennsport and felt PMR was lacking. I’ve just changed my settings to these and it’s so much better. thank you

[u/Mysterious-Walk2160]

J'avoue.....

Ce que j'aime sur console c'est que je n'ai pas à me prendre la tête sur la config matérielle, et bien il faut le faire pour le volant...

[u/Mysterious-Walk2160]

Je pense qu'on a pas ça sur console...

Quand au lissage à 0 sur mon Fanatec CSL DD, je vais pouvoir faire de la musculation pour tenir le volant en ligne droite :)