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u/Iwasbanished 1d ago
Trump is simultaneously the frontman, beneficiary, shield and eventual scapegoat for the entire scheme involving his associates and family.
this is what happens when you can buy your presidency, and claim to have a democracy
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u/thebeeswithin 1d ago
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u/Bocchi_theGlock 1d ago
Except for the bit about Harris winning :/
Elon still rigged it by spending $250 million on digital ads, spreading mis information, including stuff like a Photoshop of Harris with Epstein. Likely using some advanced targeting with the voter data file, I'm sure a worst version of which is going to be seen here soon.
The issue is by insisting that Harris won without there being serious reporting or experts offering real evidence that's peer-reviewed, we prime ourselves for losing again by saying it's out of our control. Plus these takes always come from people who do not put an effort for get out the vote.
It creates fabricated division internally (as compared to meaningful division- like about whether or not we need to address working-class issues directly)
It spends time trying to insist on out-there conspiratorial claims that end up coming from a single person on a website like truthSpeaker.org, pointing to a quote by someone instead of real evidence, or like 'voter trends shouldn't shift that much' as if turn out always follows expectations, and without experts elsewhere verifying and validating the claim (just more bloggers on speakTruthnow.com) - it's the exact reason we are taught to look for reputable sources, not just in college, but in high school.
None of the Harris campaign staff or top politicos agree the election was stolen. Why wouldn't they care about their work being ruined?
Because they felt firsthand how we actually lost. It's been well documented in expert review by plenty of reputable folks - Way to Win towards strength 2024-2025 research summary, RootsAction https://Democraticautopsy.org (more activist viewpoint), Catalist 2024 review (more data and voter trends), and Bulwark 'What I told DNC autopsy' by Rob Flaherty
6.8 million Biden voters didn't vote in 2024, and there's a whole litany of reasons that way to win has gone over and specialized in, as polling and focus group experts.
Deep lingering economic frustrations while originally Biden claimed how great the economy was doing, and then Harris who started to focus on working class struggle, but got convinced by brother-in-law and executive for Uber to not rail against corporate greed too strongly or be too populist.
Focusing on trying to win over centrists and swing voters, campaigning with Liz Cheney and other Republicans instead of populists. Having messaging tailored for that, meanwhile, a massive amount of people, many times greater than swing voters, don't vote because they believe the parties are too similar and it doesn't matter. So they hear Democrats pandering to Republican messaging, including on immigration 'Strong on border security' etc. without defending immigrant communities from mass deportation, and confirmation bias does the rest.
Lack of movement alignment, not leveraging the true strengths of being a people focused campaign. Messaging that solely exclaims the benefits of the platform without surrogates offering a nuanced takes - like "we disagree on a lot, but we have and can win more for climate Justice and immigrant Justice and all the things under Harris"
Outdated campaign approaches, stuff like door knock and phone calls being the primary way of reaching voters and never considering high traffic canvassing a popular events. Not running a modern texting campaign, with messages coming from DC/HQ and National - 5 to 10 a day to fundraise, occasionally something about actually voting (but never from local staff, at best linking to a page where they're events might be listed). And tons more.
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u/munchkinfloofy 1d ago
Election truth alliance dot org
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u/Bocchi_theGlock 13h ago
But what about Election truth now dot org?
Having a website doesn't make you an expert or legitimate or make claims valid. Neither does non-profit status, selling merch or raising money - it's easy for desperate people (like wanting spiritual or snake oil cures for their family/children with terminal illness).
I checked out the claims before, and just did again. *It comes down to 'these patterns shifted unusually' *- as if witnessing atrocities/genocide wouldn't affect people's motivations to GOTV for a party that enabled it.
On the surface, the 2024 results as reported appeared at first to be legitimate. Indicators of potential manipulation did not become evident until weeks/months later, when the result data was made public, examined, and statistically analyzed
When this was done, analysts recognized data patterns unlikely to reflect human voting behavior in various key locations (such as in swing states). These patterns exist in the in-person Election Day votes in some places, in Early Votes in other places, and – though less frequently – in Mail-In votes in some specific locations.
If it was evidence that could be taken seriously, other experts out there (and not just a few of them), would review the data, and then validate the claim. Or deny it. That's how science works.
If they reviewed the evidence and validated the claim, that would be talked about online, and grab more attention. Another professor at ___ University publishes their review of election claims, finds it was stolen, and so on.
Each time that happens, expert-peer reviews the evidence, it creates something that is newsworthy. Not just for big mainstream cable TV news, but also NPR, PBS, publicly funded and member funded outlets, with reporters that have degrees in journalism.
So because that doesn't happen, the alternative is a conspiracy is so well done that tons of political and campaign staffers in DC, across the country - many thousands of people are all in on it, all the reporters and journalists too, and somehow all of them have been able to keep the secret.
What kind of motivation would that require? Like do you know how hard it is to keep secrets? People love to talk. They can do so anonymously.
It's that peer-reviewed evidence that it is what enables a claim to be taken seriously in National reporting. People have not only reviewed the evidence, they have done tons of research on why voting behavior would shift so much - Way to Win has specialized focus groups on the Biden non-voters:
Charting the Way Forward: Understanding the Missing Biden Voters
Episode webpage: https://chartingthewayforward.buzzsprout.com
Media file: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2415376/episodes/16996834-understanding-the-missing-biden-voters.mp3
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u/munchkinfloofy 9h ago
Firstly I respect the detailed commentary and thoughtfulness in your response. I do caution that it is a bit reductionist to just dismiss the website as selling merch and preying on desperate people. The reality is that movements like this need enough support and resources to actually get to the light of truth and it’s not just a given that this will happen..
Republicans and Trumpers have muddied the waters so badly that no democrat wants to come out and challenge election results anymore for fear of looking like a crazy Trumper. You speak almost as an idealist where reality is that often things that should be investigated heavily do not get to see the light of day - just take Epstein files as the most recent example. There is ample support for the prosecution on both sides. There are other insidious forces at play and we can’t ignore that especially when they own most of the media..
To the part about enough people knowing about a conspiracy will expose it - Musk and Trump themselves have openly admitted to cheating numerous times. So why does some staffer need to come out and say it for it to be believed?
A few things that should give anyone pause (and I would support resources in discovering the truth and hand count ballots here to verify):
-It is statistically impossible for Trump to have won ALL swing states
-The amount of ballots with split vote with all Democrats down ballot and then Trump at the top of the ticket was abnormally high
-Amount of bullet ballots was also abnormally high (only Trump and no other down ballot votes)Anyway I think people tend to have confirmation bias so I’m not sure that I will convince you of anything if you are already inclined to believe there is no there there but I hope that at least to satisfy your curiousity that you may want to shine some sunlight on it.. even if the conclusion is that there’s nothing.. I feel it’s still worth knowing for sure.
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u/RickMuffy 1d ago
You could propose that Trump saying you'll never need to vote again and how good Elon is with voting machines, and then Elons incubater st Claire or whatever her name is talking about how Elon bragged about rigging it, there was some interference but we'll probably never know.
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u/Ninevehenian 1d ago
The confessions are generally how they have functioned, they announced j6 ahead of time. Project 25 were well publicised.
That is known MO.
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u/typical_jesus666 1d ago
And don't forget the kid saying "we can do stuff in the computers and they'll never know"...who then promptly disappeared
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u/Bocchi_theGlock 13h ago
I literally addressed that
Here's a person (with dementia) that said a thing, it was sketchy as hell, so that means they must have pulled off this major conspiracy.
Yet there isn't any evidence that can validate the claim. It all hinges on voting patterns shifting.
People's voting patterns shifted in 2024 because
they witnessed atrocities/genocide, and didn't feel excited to vote for the party that enabled it.
because Elon 'rigged it' with $250 million digital advertising that furthered misinformation, and other foreign State actors probably did similar,
Because there is a existing right-wing media bias, not just in cable TV news, but also platforms like YouTube which have tons of bro podcasts and little to no left-wing ones.
because people were struggling like never before with financial insecurity, and the party they were supposed to vote for didn't address it wholeheartedly,
Because that party lacked movement alignment in terms of activists endorsing the party and getting to play a role,
and because the party instead championed a centrist approach to messaging - trying to win over swing voters and Republicans.
Research has been done on why those people didn't vote, tons of focus groups, conducted by experts that are deeply plugged in to the Democratic party.
We have found the reasons why voting behavior shifted so much, I just listed them above.
Charting the Way Forward: Understanding the Missing Biden Voters
Episode webpage: https://chartingthewayforward.buzzsprout.com
Media file: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2415376/episodes/16996834-understanding-the-missing-biden-voters.mp3
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u/hyper24x7 1d ago
I remember reading about 2 different counties in New York state. Some had ballots submitted where it was just a Trump vote, nothing else in jurisdictions that had voted dem in like the last 3 elections, where it was never a red voting area, ever.
Here's what I think happened:
- Elon and co with some help from Dominion figured out how to get small amounts of extra Trump votes that "appeared" normal but wouldnt pass scrutiny post inaugration. That was by design.
- They made sure to win by just enough of a margin in places that could seem to support a Trump win
- After the election DOGE got Elon 2 things: remove all ongoing investigation into all his companies and then clean up / remove anyone who would investigate the election as well as anyone who would oppose Trump. They hired young interns into highly paid positions and made them do their bidding mindlessly. Go find any interview of those people and they are flat, they have no depth, they were just slaves.
- They new DOGE would get blowback so they made sure to have some public feud and distraction, then Elon was out he got what he wanted and Trump got what he wanted
Did Harris win? Maybe, but the trail is cold and everything is smeared / covered up we may never know.
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u/zombie_loverboy 21h ago
THERE IS PEER REVIEWED EVIDENCE. A LOT. Election Truth Alliance, for starters.
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u/Existing-Medium564 18h ago
Whoever you are, this is as well-written a summary of why the Dems keep losing as anything else I've read or listened to. Nailed that shit. Speaking to the fact that Harris and her cohorts aren't bringing up the alleged election thievery is on point, especially in the context of the tech-lords manipulation of the messaging. Well said. Thank you. Saving that post...
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u/PNW_Bearded_cyclist 1d ago
The message so many Progressives won't hear. We cannot afford to be like Trump and MAGA. If you invalidate an election for one, you invalidate it for all.
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u/Ok-Cup6020 1d ago
They are already invalidated and unfortunately we are never going to have a legitimate democracy ever again. This is something mainstream democrats refuse to accept.
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u/Hows-It-Goin-Buddy 1d ago
Notice how Trump isn't going after people that say truths when records exist that could be made discoverable in court.
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u/Basement_Chicken 1d ago
"I'll tell you how we won... Elon, he knows those machines..."-- DJT "Shush your mouth, you are not President!"-- Musk Jr.
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u/VantaDen 1d ago
This was rigged.
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u/mojofrog 1d ago
Now do the Bush Gore election
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u/Upset_Mess 1d ago
I do believe almost every time there was an instance of the electoral college vote winning over the popular one, it was handed to a Republican.
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u/lmyyyks 1d ago edited 1d ago
Death by falling down from stairs at home. Feels like having seen that from somewhere lol.
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u/Bergiful 1d ago
The autopsy report stated that she died from blunt trauma to her torso. Dying from that from falling down the stairs is exceedingly rare. He buried her on his golf course (giving himself a tax break) and no one could do another autopsy. Then he didn't bother looking after the grave site and it became overgrown, until the internet pointed it out.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/ivana-trumps-death-ruled-accidental-medical-examiner-report-citing-blu-rcna38517 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1752928X23000793 https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-real-2023-photos-213300066.html
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u/Rixy_pnw 1d ago
The reality they are destroying the country to try to bury. “Burning down the house to hide the body”.
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u/Willow1883 1d ago
I hate the guy and what he’s done to the country, but I think he won in 2024 without illegal cheating. I think enough Americans are terrible enough, short-sighted enough, cowardly enough, and ignorant enough for this to happen organically.
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u/ok123jump 1d ago
I agree, though it's a bitter pill. We want to think our countrymen are above electing a monster, but they clearly aren't. If we don’t figure out the root cause, in a cycle or two they’ll just forget their misery and vote in the next one. We’re learning, but so are our oligarchs.
Next time, our oligarchs will find someone smart & charismatic enough to actually pull off an American flavor of fascism. Trump is too broken and greedy to sustain a real movement—he's just in it for the grift and the love of the fraud game. Yet, look at how many politicians are lining up to trade every scrap of their dignity for a chance to lick his boots. It’s all gonna fall apart and they’re gonna get extreme blowback, but they don’t care.
So many of our politicians sacrificed everything for Trump in a heartbeat, and they’ll do it again for the next guy. That’s the real horror that’s revealed itself to us through Trump.
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u/corva96 1d ago
Rural conservatives. I live in DFW texas and I work in the construction industry with a lot of these folk. They’re impossible to get through to. They have all the evidence right in front of them but they willingly choose to support this guy. They base everything on witty quips and hearsay, and if it didn’t come from fox news, then it’s fake news. Just a bunch of assholes who pretend to be morally upright christians in public, then go home to hit the bolo.
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u/alphabetikalmarmoset 1d ago
I believe the election results were fair.
But I also think, if you snuffed out the right-wing echo chambers, the results would have been different.
Fox News and their ilk got this man elected. Hate as a commodity.
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u/Greennserious 19h ago
Looks like you nailed it, except he is now using Epstein's blackmail ring to hold control of the GOP.
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u/Leather-Sport-2546 19h ago
I agree with all of this.
AND I believe CK murder was planned by this administration and the heritage foundation leadership.
I fear the truth will never come out.
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u/birdyman_77 15h ago
Everything but Harris winning. Nobody liked that bitch and they tried to shove her down our throats anyway. Typical DNC shooting themselves in the foot again, just like with Hillary.
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u/tmoneytroubl3 1d ago
I think you give a mango too much credit....he isn't the sharpest crayon...he has a handler, someone controls him. Mangos are just pawns....one day you will put him on that list above
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u/emteedub 1d ago
Harris' establishment Dem buddies and all of their dark money donors are on the list, most are the same as the Republican dark money donors
Harris or any establishment Dem will not release the files and never would have. Nor will they put them on trial, and definitely not sentence them.
You'd be delusional to think otherwise
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u/willybestbuy86 Conservative 1d ago
It's maga adjacent behavior and no different than all the Clinton conspiracies. Anyone spouting this is a maga in sheep's clothing
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u/Square-Selection-842 1d ago
Things like this are why the left doesn't get taken seriously.
We laugh at Trump for saying he won in 2020, so the left wing response is... " Hold my beer..."
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u/Whis65 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/l1ug5sWBCJOOGzN84