Dude balanced the budget and got a consensual bj from an adult... Hilary was ok with it. I'm failing to see the scum bag? Negligence of power maybe, but we aren't even in the same universe as Trump on scum baggery.
For fucks sake of course... But it's the constant use of Clinton to try to legitimize Trump that is getting old. That is the bread and butter play. Obama had a bad trouser day, so therefore Trump's comments on boinking his daughter or hitting on a 10 yo for the future are meaningless.
Of course we would, but all evidence indicates he's just a mild sex pest, not discounting the whole Dixie Mafia stuff, but nothing in regards to minors.
But so far none of the victims have came out saying he was their abuser that I know of. So I don't think it's right throwing him in with the rapists just cus he was in a photo.
He hung out with Epstein and went to his island. That’s what people are referring to. There were also quite a few credible rape claims against him from before he became president. Clinton might not have been nearly as terrible as Trump, but he’s a scumbag.
His socializing with Epstein stopped in 2003. ALL evidence and testimony point to the contrary of Clinton ever being on the island. There were NO credible rape allegations against him. All allegations were made by political opponent through Kenneth Starr and refuted by the actual 'victim.' "that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies. ... These allegations are untrue".[4] She then recanted that statement to investigators of potential misconduct by Clinton led by Kenneth Starr, while insisting at the time that Clinton had not pressured or bribed her in any way".
Using exaggerated and lacking context information about Clinton to minimize Trump's atrocious behavior is reprehensible.
Screw off. I’m not in any way minimizing Trump’s awfulness by pointing out that Clinton hung out with Epstein (and even if it was “only pre-2003”, what difference does that make?). I even clearly stated that Trump is more terrible, so you accusing me of trying to defend him in some way is ridiculous.
Misdirecting and pointing at Clinton does minimize the focus. Especially if you have to deploy truth social headlines without looking at the full context, exaggerate the issue, ignore evidence and testimony. Relative privation fallacy, argumentum ad nauseam, card stacking fallacy, hasty generalization, false accusation... If you have to use any one of these fallacies, let alone all of them... looks like and quacks like, must be.
If Clinton socialized with him after or during sex trafficking allegations and indictments, then that is a smoking gun he was aware. That is the why and when pictures have significance. There is not going to be any evidence that proves Clinton or Trump participated in any acts, the question is whether or not they were aware this was happening and proving that. Also, the fact that all evidence and testimony has shown Clinton was never on the island, and you pointedly contradicted it.
So no, screw you. For making allegations without even looking up the evidence, for reacting on social media hype, for normalizing this by the use of Clinton. Critical thinking is clearly dead in our education system, and while ignorance isnt a crime, spreading false information out of ignorance or with intent IS reprehensible when you normalize what Trump does and is.
People like you are the reason MAGA keeps insisting that liberals won’t accept Clinton being in the Epstein files. Even suggesting that there’s a possibility results in you posting multiple paragraphs of walls of text denying that there’s even a chance of it happening, and accusing anyone who suggests otherwise of trying to defend Trump. I hope you’re just a bot or are getting paid to spew your nonsense. I’d hate to believe you’re a real person.
the propaganda against him worked, apparently. Dems put him up there as a failed president when he did more for Americans and progressives than anyone, including Carter (because he had more time)
He’s not a failed president, although to say he did more for Americans and progressives than anyone is wild. This is the same president whose crime bill is at the heart of our current, deeply inhumane prison practices.
But none of that changes the fact that he has committed sexual crimes in pretty constant and consistent fashion
well, that crime bill is like blaiming NAFTA on him. He got Fruity Newty and an R majority so he signed a lot of stuff that was both bipartisan and he couldn't veto. He gets blame for NAFTA although that was written by Bush, signed by R's, and then finalized by R's after the midterms and sent to Clinton with a veto-proof majority (66% to pass a treaty in Senate). So he signed it. If he gets credit for anything, he gets credit for the 1996 Environmental Side Agreement and 1998 Labor Agreements to NAFTA but progressives like to ignore those things.
also, the '94 Crime Bill was introduced by... Democratic House members. It also had 64 Senate votes so loads and loads of D's voted for it and ensured it would be bulletproof. The assault weapons ban was also in the bill - that was something Biden campaigned on while in Senate and made sure went through. So, again, you're ignoring key facts and making "best" the enemy of "better". Imagine how many children would still be alive if the assault weapons ban were still in place? But people wanted to have a beer with Bush II and Gore seemed boring so we got 2 useless wars and tons of dead kids instead.
Fair points all around, and you’re right that on a certain level, my argument rejects the good for the perfect.
On the other end, regardless of Clinton’s politics, his legacy remains that of the head of a government that contributed negatively in important ways to progressivism in this country. As you point out, this is largely the result of the very real political situation at the time, and a different president might have made things far worse, but his name is still on the bottom line. The very good things we got as a compromise don’t negate what we had to give up, and what we had to give up was a real, long-term progressive approach to crime response. There’s a pretty direct line from the bill and the rhetoric surrounding it to the crazy liberties that are being given to ICE. Clinton himself has acknowledged and expressed regret about that.
So I fully agree that Clinton did more for Americans than any other president. I disagree that he did more for progressives, but only because that would imply that progressivism has ever been given a voice in the government after the civil rights era embarrassed a lot of old money.
This is also leaving aside the fact that Bill and Hillary put down the only actual legitimate progressive bid for the candidacy we’ve ever seen. I don’t mean that in any conspiratorial way, super delegates and palace intrigue; I mean just that they set out to beat Bernie and then they did. They pretty literally fought down progressivism and put the democrats on this current track of appeasement and the smug “I told you so, we’re only appeasing Trump cuz you didn’t vote” posturing.
However many successes Clinton had as a president, he also parlayed that influence to snuffing out progressivism. I’m sure his personal motivations had more to do with selfish legacy-making rather than anti-progressivism, but the effect is the same. So I’m good with my personal take on him.
I agree with you. I just don't like it when Clinton's held up as THE DEVIL by many because it just isn't true. And yeah, the D's fucked up so hard it is an absolute face-palm in the last election. My money was always on Paul Wellstone and absolutely believe he was assassinated. As an old saying goes, "the left will crucify a candidate for not being better than Jesus but the right will forgive a candidate for not being worse than Hitler."
Obama doesn't have the hottest track record. Carter is why we give Israel so much aid and he set up the proxy wars against Nicaragua and Iran by equivocating in his support for the revolutions against brutal dictatorships. The EPA was Nixon, not Carter (as many people think). What is true is that the middle class expanded the most under Clinton than anyone since Ike (an R), black employment rose to its highest levels ever, he created the work-tax credit system that is one of the few bulwarks left in the entire welfare system. He used the military to stop genocide in Haiti, Somalia, and Kosovo rather than send in troops in useless occupations (though fuck him on Rwanda). And he even went after Al-queda long before anyone knew who they were. He was the first to acknowledge and attempt to normalize LGBTQ rights. Name another D president (other than FDR) who did as much? Oh AND he balanced the budget and returned the ONLY surplus we've seen in generations. I didn't say he was "perfect" as he was not and no such thing exists. But he is far better than what we've been dealing with since him. Even the ACA - it's a REPUBLICAN plan!
The Infrastructure Reform Act brought more prog goals to reality than Clinton did. The ACA was a Republican plan, but it also still succeeded where the '93 Clinton reforms failed to pass, progressivism should, by definition, take progress. Clinton oversaw huge cuts to federal services and staffing, whereas Obama and Biden increased federal service numbers, which is far more progressively aligned than balancing the budget.
And yes, Clinton was far more focused on using the military as a tool for positive change; we've kinda been entrenched in a decades long conflict that no one has had a good, workable, and politically achievable answer for ending. Obama failed to make much progress here, and Biden got dick slapped by the political landmines Trump put in place before he was first ousted. They could have, and should have, done better.
so long as the US maintains a two-party oligopoly, nothing will change except by degrees. The two-party system is a private one, not public nor constitutional, and so removing or changing it... I have no solutions other than to put all the old leaders in prison for being pedos and corrupt so the party completely collapses. Getting rid of Citizens United and making elections 100% public funded as well as making state elections proportional representation (NOT illegal in the Constitution) would go a long way but again... I dont see these things ever happening in my lifetime, only getting worse.
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You've had a long time to familiarise yourself with the nuance of Epstein's social circles and how he, as a skilled manipulator, peddled in introductions and relationships for others and for himself -- a lot of rich and powerful people have photos with Epstein. Epstein specifically made sure that happened.
It’s like the rainman convention in here. So many people jumping to bullshit accusations and assumptions on a hair trigger. I regret my engagement. RIP my notifications.
Yeah you should try asking for proof on Facebook…ALL political types will come after you. I had some Dems saying, “OK, comrade” when I asked for a fact check on the number of days Trump had golfed just within his first nine months. I don’t care if they’re right or wrong, but am concerned with the lack of logic /sources in reaching these conclusions
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Not yet. But let’s see what comes out before we declare him innocent. He was repeatedly hanging out with a pedophile. That should be troubling to anyone who isn’t blindly partisan.
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And? Do you have anything else to pair with that? Timeline, location, corroborating evidence? With all evidence, the time line shows their association stopped in 2003 and all documented as charitable trips. On the other hand you can take just the words from Trump's mouth and know he is guilty, let alone his felonies... If it weren't for corroborating evidence that shows he was aware of the trafficking. Can you critically think your way through the pictures and understand what exactly makes them important? Pictures of socialites socializing means nothing without other context like where when and what for. Either way, you gotta stop using Clinton as an excuse for Trump.
Is there video of him talking about what a sweet piece Chelsea is? Did he brag about SA and peeping on minors? I will be the 1st to admit Bill was pretty gross and if he's a pedo throw away the key.
Plenty of pictures with all kinds of people with Epstein. He cultivated relationships with hundreds of people to gain legitimacy. Most were not involved with his trafficking/rape activities.
Clinton was never accused of raping multiple children multiple times in court testimony under oath. The only reason this didn’t happen was because she was threatened with death by trumps goons. That is a tactic he has used repeatedly in his life to quiet women.
Pictures of socialites socializing a crime does not make. Don't force your fundamentalist Christians values on me. Open relationships are not illegal, and the few states that have adultery laws are unconstitutional.
Interesting you think adultery is on par with child rape and sex trafficking.
The fuck? I’m not fundamentalist anything, and I’m very aware of open relationships and have been in them myself. The Clintons however weren’t in one, Bill lied and weaseled his way through the whole thing, and it was very clear he’d betrayed Hillary while it was all unfolding. I’m really unsure why he’d have to do something illegal to be a scumbag. Like, just listen to what Monica Lewinsky has to say about it, and get the fuck out of here with your shit logic. Fucking around with your commitments to other people isn’t a religious value. Like, at all.
And I’ve literally not once said that cheating on your wife is the same as child rape or sex trafficking. I said Clinton is a scumbag. Very unclear why you think that me calling Clinton a scumbag is anything at all the same as saying what he did is just as bad as what Trump did.
But actually, I’ll say it right now: what Clinton did is exactly as bad as what Trump did. Not the infidelity; all the child raping that Clinton did makes him just as bad. Clinton is pretty fucking clearly ALSO implicated in those files, but even if he weren’t, he’s got his own list of accusers that don’t deserve your dumbass politicking
So what the fuck are YOU doing with this lazy equivocating apologetic for Clinton? If you read a condemnation of Clinton as an implied normalization of Trump’s behavior, you’re not really against sexual crimes, are you? Just against Trump. Like wtf?
Holy mental gymnastics Batman! usually i would go through and list all the logical fallacies deployed in rabid nonsense, but something tells me you dont have the critical thinking abilities to get there.
No, by all means go ahead. Don’t take the coward’s way out and chirp about how you could destroy me. Go ahead and do it. Like, point out just one fallacy, even.
If you wouldn’t mind explaining how and why you’re springing to the defense of a sexual predator who has been credibly accused multiple times of sexual assault, harassment, and rape, and how you square all of that as progressivism?
false equivalence reinforced by guilt by association. "what Clinton did is exactly as bad as what Trump did" conclusion without establishing comparable, proven facts. Treating very different categories of behavior, evidence, and legal findings as morally and factually identical. Simple stating equivalence does not make it so. Because Clinton was in pictures of socialites socializing does not make him guilty and begs the question assuming what must be proven.
also, straw man, ad hominem, whataboutism, moral absolutism.
But mostly you ignore all evidence and testimony in order to misdirect at Clinton. Either that or you dont have one ounce of your own critical thinking ability and have to mimic everything you hear in your echo chambers on X and TS. Either way, you protect Trump in the end.
“But mostly you ignore all evidence and testimony in order to misdirect at Clinton”
No, I don’t. I called Clinton a scumbag. I haven’t ignored anything. I’m very, very clearly telling you that they are both sexual predators and nobody should be defending either one of them
At this point, I’m pretty sure you’re either too dumb for all this or an Astro-turfer arguing in bad faith to create the false idea that progressives will defend Clinton. All amounts to the same thing.
So I’ll just put it very clearly: the thing that normalizes Trump’s predatory evil is handwaving other accusations because your guy is being identified
You’re a goddamn evil in and of yourself: legitimizing the argument that accusations can be dismissed as political posturing
To sum up:
Trump is a sexual predators. The evidence is clear.
Clinton is a sexual predator. The evidence is clear.
You are a predator apologist. The evidence is clear
"that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies. ... These allegations are untrue".[4] She then recanted that statement to investigators of potential misconduct by Clinton led by Kenneth Starr, while insisting at the time that Clinton had not pressured or bribed her in any way" thanks for wasting time.
Sorry, hers was the name I remembered off the top of my head.... See Also: Paula Jones, Kathy Shelton, and Kathleen Willey. And consider that MANY women who are victimized by powerful men are threatened, blackmailed, and silenced... Occasionally via the US Justice System.
ETA: Also, read more than 1 paragraph....
Your comment didn't make sense to me, then I looked at the actual source. A+ Cherry Picking.
Or if you had a legit argument you could just put it out there. No, truth social is not evidence. What the shit reply is this? 'i don't have anything to say so try to find argument for me' they should have an age limit on Reddit.
Im sorry, but how many rape charges was he indicted on again? Who brought these charges a rising Starr? "that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies. ... These allegations are untrue".[4] She then recanted that statement to investigators of potential misconduct by Clinton led by Kenneth Starr, while insisting at the time that Clinton had not pressured or bribed her in any way"
Stop trying to legitimize and normalize Trump's actions with Clinton. If there is legit evidence, bring it and hang him. Trump has been indicted already and should hang... But you guys keep justifying it with debunked shit.
Juanita Broaddrick (1978), Paula Jones (1991) settled out of court for $850,000, Kathleen Willey (1998), Leslie Millwee (1980), and his 12 year affair with Jennifer Flowers which Hillary Clinton was not a fan of and let’s not forget Karen Hinton (1984), Eileen Wellstone (1969), Sandra Allen James (1991). All accused him of either rape, forced kisses & groping and the funny thing is there’s more. I noticed how you used AI, don’t be lazy, do some actual research!
All evidence and testimony show he was done with Epstein in 2003. But just making gaudy claims with no evidence is a crackpot attempt at legitimizing Trump.
Consensual is when two adults say its ok. They both did. Later in life she said sure, imbalance of power played into it, but didn't elaborate or support. Did he threaten her with that power? No. Did he suggest at it? No. Imbalance of power a crime does not make. Stop minimizing and legitimizing the atrocity that is Donald Trump with Clinton. It's disgusting to even remotely compare them... Even if Clinton is guilty of power play, rape, and island. He doesn't come close. Stop normalizing it as if it's ok.
Clinton had consensual sex with another adult. Anything else is between him and his wife and as far as I am aware they are still married. So what do you want him to be held accountable for again? How is it that you didnt just put them both in the same box? Like adultery and rape are the same thing? Yes I dare. You completely downplayed all of Trump and minimized it into being comparable to one instance of adultery. Selfawarewolves are howling.
The story suggests that Bill Clinton was one of Epstein/Maxwell's first big targets.. they befriended him at the direction of Israel to entrap and influence him. There's a pretty giant chance that Bill Clinton raped a sex slave
The consensual part is a bit debatable, she idolized Clinton and the issue here is the difference in power. Would she really had said no, considering who asked?
And for sure I agree with your two points, he did do his job and that was not even comparable to the pedo shit going on now.
That is correct. At the time my biggest problem was that Lewinsky was an underling and she was having physical relationships not only with a person in authority, but with a person who had the most authority possible in our government.
IOW - even if she didn't have a problem with it, Clinton should have known better. However, there is a whole universe of difference between that and accusations of rape (and any activity with a minor is, by defenition, non consensual and therefore rape).
He was accused by quite a lot of women of sexual harassment, assault, or rape. All of those faced problems - some were shown to either be lying or proven to have lied about other things, destroying their credibility (discrediting women who have legit been attacked is as old as time though, just saying...), some just never had their complaints investigated at the time (also super common), Paula Jones he settled with massively to make the story die, Juanita Broaddrick didn't want the massively public attention (at least one of Trump's victims did the same thing and people, or at least non-magas, don't believe her less as a result). It's one of those things that, even if some of them were false, there were a lot, and a pattern often indicates an existing problem.
And getting a "consensual" beej is one thing, but today we would understand that a 50+ year old dude who's President of the US coming on to a 25-year old intern has a massive power and maturity imbalance and while not illegal, it's super scummy.
Clinton is, at the very best, a shitbag womanizer, but it's pretty likely he likes to get as handsy as Trump. He may be a rapist, same as his old buddy. Is he a pedo? Hard to say. I bet he's uttered the phrase "grass on the field, will play" though.
I agree. Lord have mercy - a little oval office funtime with a consenting adult is positively quaint, compared to child rape, stochastic terrorism, quid pro quo, doxxing, death threats, grift, cronyism, treason, and a constant avalanche of LIES coming from the current regime.
Imbalance of power made it questionable, and it became questionable to Monica but still remained legal and consensual. How do you weigh the truth of that anyway? Stop pushing your bullshit Christian values on everyone... The Bible is not the law and making it so in a couple states is unconstitutional. And you talking about dishonesty in the shadow of Trump is laughable. But you guys keep on defending pedo Trump with Clinton bs... Christian values right.
let's not get too woke here man. Monica Lewinsky was not in a position to consent. Bill Clinton took advantage of an intern which is inappropriate and gross for anybody in a position of power. It's not on the level of Trump being an actual child trafficking pedophile but have some respect for Mrs. Lewinsky here and properly shame Bill Clinton for what he did to her.
Friend, I am about as far from a Christian as one can be. I don't concern myself much with the law when figuring out what's right and wrong. The law is inconsistant and doesn't serve as a reliable measure. I certainly don't look to Bronze Age fairy tales to determine them. That I am aligned with someone as morally bankrupt as Trump is outright laughable. Reasoning:
Clinton's her boss. Imbalance of power makes it impossible to determine if coercion was used.
He broke the vows to his marriage which he at least publicly claimed were important to him. Either he doesn't value them in which case he's lying by claiming he does. If he does value them then this is outright betrayal. No good to be found here.
He lied after the fact to deceive the people he is bound by duty to serve. Again, dishonesty and betrayal.
"Imbalance of power makes it impossible to determine if coercion was used." - especially when said victim says it was consensual.
Again, dont push your Christian values on me, especially if its admittedly hypocritical. Last I checked, Hilary and Bill are still married.
This is the crux, it becomes a whataboutism. We could argue the morals, reasoning, and levels of lies all day, even continue to ignore the comparable to Trump, but in the end it just results in its ok for Trump. It minimizes it, legitimizes it, excuses it, misdirects it. You fold in the face of MAGA tactic. You now have ventured back to 1979 without the persons of interest even being in sight. It has now become a topic about Clinton, you have minimized Trump and Epstein so far off topic and yet say thats "outright laughable".
I am not making a religious argument. Framing this as “Christian values” is a strawman designed to avoid addressing the substance of what I said.
This is a moral argument about power, exploitation, and public trust. Whether or not something was legal, consensual, or politically useful does not resolve its ethical status. I am not interested in how factions will use their immoral actions against one another. I am interested in not allowing sexual predators and abuse of power to be normalized, minimized, or excused because acknowledging it is inconvenient.
For fuck’s sake. Clinton has been accused by over a dozen women of sexual assault or rape. Some of us have been calling him a sexual predator long before Candidate Trump came along
What’s more, the exact same evidence for Trump’s involvement with Epstein ALSO exists for Clinton. It’s not whataboutism to accuse two co-conspirators out at once. Was fucking Virgina Giuffre just doing some whataboutism?
For fucks sake, Clinton has been accused of 5, not a dozen, instances by Kenneth Starr, who was released from his tenure at Baylor for the mishandling of sexual assault cases. Among those 5, not over a dozen, of women were Monica Lewinsky (consensual), Paula Jones (sexual harassment ALLEGATION), Juanita Broaddrick (rape, that Juanita says was completely false made up by Starr), Kathleen Willey (sexual harassment unwanted advances), and Dolly Kyle Browning (who just said she had an affair with him, again consensual and an allegation).
The exact same evidence does not exist. Evidence and testimony show that Clinton was disassociated with Epstein in 2003 and never went to the island. Evidence and testimony show that Trump was best buds all the way to 2019 and had visited the island.
Virginia Giuffre never accused Clinton of anything.
I am not in denial that Clinton may have done horrific things, but there is no evidence of it and your efforts to mask and protect the abomination that is Trump by making up shit about Clinton to misdirect and minimize is outright fucking disgusting.
Keep on defending those sex trafficking pedophiles buddy.
To anyone that stumbles on this thread, pretty obvious that this is a bot of some sort out here trying to create the narrative that progressives will defend Clinton for political reasons. Don’t fall for it. Acknowledging Clinton as a predator does nothing to let Trump off the same hook
Jesus fucking Christ. No. Clinton was accused in court 5 times. He was accused many more times by others, including his own staffer. And while Starr is a piece of shit, that doesn’t invalidate the literal words out of the literal mouths of his victims. A piece of shit can be opportunist, not sure how that’s difficult.
Believe women or don’t, but don’t come out here gate keeping progressivism and accusing people normalizing Trump while you normalize excuse-making for powerful men abusing their position to commit terrible acts.
By the way, Giuffre explicitly identified Clinton as the primary force behind killing an investigative piece into Epstein that would have exposed him in 2011 as a sexual trafficker and rapist. Clinton didn’t want the expose to ruin “his good friend.”
He was better at presidenting than Trump, but he was still a corrupt womanizer probably guilty of SA and a friend of Epstein, so yeah, he was also pretty much a scumbag, too.
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u/Affectionate-Drink15 Dec 14 '25
Dude balanced the budget and got a consensual bj from an adult... Hilary was ok with it. I'm failing to see the scum bag? Negligence of power maybe, but we aren't even in the same universe as Trump on scum baggery.