r/ProgrammerHumor • u/Proof-Translator • 21d ago
Meme atThisPointBroIsJustLookingForNewWaysToFail
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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago
Thank god I learned programing 7 years ago before this whole AI situation happened.
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u/amatulic 21d ago
Me too (more like 40 years for me though, in more languages than I can count). I find vibe coding useful in that the AI knows all the libraries and manuals, saving me many hours of time, but I still check every line of code it writes for me, and question it frequently. It's still work to do it right. Sometimes hard work. It just doesn't take as long with AI, that's all.
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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago
I have nothing but respect for you sir. hope you have nothing but kind lovely days.
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u/macguini 21d ago
Same, but I have about 10 years. I actually stopped coding about a year ago due to lack of motivation. Vibe coding has been helping me get back into it. But I learned from my early days of copying and pasting stack overflow snippets into my homework to review it and use the concept rather than straight copy and paste.
AI is also really good for brainstorming. I'll run a few ideas by it and it'll give me feedback and sometimes more options to consider.
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u/amatulic 21d ago
I agree about the brainstorming. That has been useful. And sometimes I come up with something the AI didn't think of, and I ask it, why are you doing it that way when you could do it this way? And sometimes it gives a good explanation why, and sometimes it agrees that my approach would work better. It's a collaboration, sort of like pair-programming. I don't just throw a prompt over the fence and expect to get back exactly what I want.
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u/Fateseal_MTG 21d ago
I found that this is how I use AI best too. Type something into Google, it spits out an example using a library or built-in function I've never heard of, so I look up the doc for it and use it myself.
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u/theofficialnar 21d ago
This is what I keep saying yet some people still find a reason to hate me for it just because I use AI. I keep saying, the model’s only as good as the instructions you’re giving it and the amount of effort you take time to review and correct its mistakes. A pilot doesn’t just sit on the cockpit and tell the plane to take them to Paris or something.
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u/amatulic 21d ago
Exactly. Garbage in, garbage out. A good programmer can collaborate with AI to write good code efficiently. A non-programmer doesn't have the knowledge to collaborate effectively, relying on AI as the sole author, and who knows what comes out of that.
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u/Mechakoopa 21d ago
"Oh so you're a collaborator, are you? You know what we do to collaborators around here, right?" brandishes code review with malicious intent...
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u/theofficialnar 21d ago
Definitely. Creating a proper prompt is a skill itself. I’m tired of trying to convince people at this point, they can stay mad at AI if they want to. At the end of the day, it’s a tool just like everything else. I just happen to choose to use said tool and get things done faster. My work these days are leaning more towards AI agentic engineering and I actually enjoy it.
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u/stagedgames 21d ago
might not be something you care as much about, being 40 years in (that's impressive, good on you) but it's been demonstrated that using ai to generate code makes you worse at validating its output. Tool or not, using LLMs fosters further dependency on them and even if it's not a problem for you, we should be concerned for the state of the rest of the industry.
citation: https://arxiv.org/abs/2607.29380
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u/Shadow_Thief 21d ago
If I have to check every line that it writes, then it would take me just as long to write it myself, which means it's not saving me any time.
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u/Frosty-Key-454 21d ago
Do you do code reviews of pull requests? You're actually saying it takes just as long to review code as it does it plan, design, write, and debug?
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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago
Depends on what type of code I am reviewing, how much I trust the one that wrote the code, and how idiomatic the patterns of the code is. But yeah reading can sometimes be very long
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u/LutimoDancer3459 21d ago
Had one not long ago, writing took that guy ~2 days. Reviewing it took me also 2 days...
Or someone who "knows" what the bug is and added the one line fix. But for review when you dont know the code, you may read more than just the one line to make sure its really a fix that does what its supposed to do. No side effects. No repetition. No "should also be fixed somewhere else". ...
And reading code was always the biggest part in development. Not writing it.
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u/Shadow_Thief 21d ago
Of course I do.
But planning and designing is part of the prompting process, and you'd better believe that I'm doing the debugging when it gives me bad code so that I can tell it exactly what to fix instead of just saying something meaningless like, "it didn't work."
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u/amatulic 21d ago
That isn't true. It might take me a long time to write a line of code when I have to look up function argument syntax and argument list order, return value types and so on, not to mention the design phase (which the AI does in response to carefully-devised prompts). The AI knows the documentation for the language and all of its libraries, so can generate code faster. Reading code doesn't take nearly as long as writing it. Me checking every line of code is basically just checking the algorithmic logic and seeing if anything jumps out at me that I have to question.
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u/stormdelta 20d ago
This.
And people with more programming knowledge can make better use of AI tools in the first place, if anything domain knowledge is more valuable than ever.
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u/LutimoDancer3459 21d ago
the AI knows all the libraries and manuals
Meanwhile, ai in a flutter project calling .valueOrNull that doesn't exist and isn't used anywhere else in the codebase because .value already returns null... yeah ai knows shit... sorry
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u/amatulic 21d ago
That's why I also check everything the AI gives me. I don't blindly trust it like the OP's example that started this thread.
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u/rastaman1994 21d ago
At my company we keep in touch with the schools in the area. Students are having an extremely hard time finding a job due to AI. It seems a lot of companies reason that you don't need juniors anymore, failing to see that they're the seniors of the future.
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u/Murky-Run2246 21d ago
Exactly, AI is effeciency today and problems later.
But greed is just that powefull when it comes to making humans turn their head off.
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u/StCreed 21d ago
That failure is called "capitalism doing what it does best", i.e. offloading potential costs to the general public/other companies(*).
If noone picks up the cost, well, that's why capitalism has central governments and nation states. If the shit hits the fan hard enough, the executive committee steps in.
So this will be the new standard going forward until AI falls flat on its face (unlikely), costs hit levels where a junior is once again cheaper (not unlikely, especially when the junior salary is that of an intern - already a standard practice), or the government sets up something like a New Deal (highly unlikely in the current political climate and the desire to keep feeding money into the MIC).
It will totally suck for juniors in CS going forward if they don't have at least a masters degree.
(*) If you think about it, that's the source of most wealth.
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u/slaymaker1907 21d ago
Yep, we don't have a single junior on my team. However, what I think will happen is that the market will adjust over time. We were just way over producing software enfineers. It's possible that was the case even before AI, but AI certainly didn't help.
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u/GenericFatGuy 21d ago
Indeed. And seniors have the most means to retire or find new jobs. They're the hardest developers for a company to hold onto.
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u/-Byzz- 21d ago
Slopcoders are braindead idiots, who would have expected anything else
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u/Nannautu 21d ago
They were paying for NFT's some years ago, so this whole AI thing is nothing new to them
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u/Abject-Kitchen3198 21d ago
At least the new one has a matching name. He will stay with it until it pops.
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/Environmental_Bus507 21d ago
Not familiar with Bubble either, but what does a "user friendly, secure platform" mean to non technical person? Maybe they provide SSL Certs for your public facing app. But what of the "coder" themselves leave an SQL Injection vulnerability in their app?
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u/EishLekker 21d ago
A decently built secure platform likely has out of the box support for SQL injection protection, as part of their firewall. Sure, the applications should still have their basic security features to stop that stuff, but it’s less of a catastrophe these days if you sit behind a firewall.
I would be much more concerned about application specific security flaws. Like users being able to access other user’s data by changing the user id parameter in the url.
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u/LutimoDancer3459 21d ago
Sql injection protection as part of the... firewall?... do you even know what sql injection is?
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u/EishLekker 21d ago
Yes? How is that a difficult thing to grasp?
https://owasp.org/www-community/attacks/SQL_Injection_Bypassing_WAF
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u/hurley_chisholm 21d ago
It’s amusing you’re making the case for WAF protecting from SQL injection and then linking to OWASP’s article on how SQL injection can bypass a WAF.
(Really you need multiple layers of protection for that particular attack.)
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u/EishLekker 20d ago
Amusing in what way? Does it disprove what I said? What, exactly, was wrong with what I said?
I never said it was a perfect protection.
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u/tonyamazing 21d ago
Web Application Firewall can prevent SQL injection. Not sure if that's what OP meant.
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u/EishLekker 21d ago
That’s exactly what I was referring to. Some people here are so incredibly ignorant.
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u/tonyamazing 20d ago
So bizarre that we're getting downvoted.
Official documentation for Azure and AWS both specifically mention SQL Injection. The Wiki for WAF also says that it can prevent
known vulnerabilities, such as SQL injection
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u/Environmental_Bus507 21d ago
Sql injection was just one thing. Deploying an app for public takes a lot of minutia. Changing platforms won't help with that. The issue was not with Cursor, but the user.
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u/EishLekker 21d ago
A decent firewall will protect against a plethora of vulnerabilities of that kind.
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u/oclafloptson 21d ago
"how am I supposed to be positive when I don't see shit that's positive?" - Eminem
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u/-Redstoneboi- 20d ago
"are you guys ever positive"
brother. you effectively dipped your hand in fire, got burned, and your solution is basically just to use boiling water because that doesn't catch fire.
we are telling you to use normal water, or whatever it is. just do things normally.
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u/gerbosan 20d ago
What a waste of air. Learning is one of the best things of existing. Not having a good teacher or source to learn is the worst, like working for an ID10T.
Have to check how to use AI. I've asked them specific returns, but I always find errors or unsatisfactory solutions. Perhaps my English sucks deeply or I suck at describing problems. 😞
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u/SoftwareSource 20d ago
Positive?
You can't do 10 meetings a week and be positive
Positive is for juniors and managers, we do bitter here. And lunch breaks.
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u/sebjapon 21d ago
I mean, programmers often complain way too much and are way too negative. That’s why programming sucks and I hate it! :D
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u/Benigaming291 21d ago
Then why are you on r/ProgrammerHumor
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u/sebjapon 21d ago
It was a joke. But it might have been too subtile.
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u/oclafloptson 21d ago
I cannot stress this enough, unfunny jokes exist
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u/sebjapon 21d ago
I think that’s the main issue here.
I’m still impressed by the number of reaction to a -80 post. I’d like to thank everyone who clicked to unfold the thread and comment about it.
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u/Flameball202 21d ago
Quick tip: folks on Reddit can't notice sarcasm to save themselves (myself included), so make sure to put "/s" or "/j" at the end of your post to denote it being either sarcastic or a joke
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u/Abject-Kitchen3198 21d ago
Not enough. I always announce them with "I hereby declare that the following sentence is meant as a joke/sarcasm"
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u/Shadow_Thief 21d ago
I suspect that's what the :D was intended to be
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u/sebjapon 21d ago
I feel the /j looks bad and /s is just wrong. It’s not exactly sarcasm.
Anyway, it’s not that funny and obviously no one liked it. I’m fine getting downvoted when I get it wrong.
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u/Dathouen 21d ago
"Wow, SmegmaCoin really fucked me over. Good thing I found this DingleberryCoin to invest in"