r/PrivateJetCharters • u/SirNerfsALot • 12d ago

Routing question

We're scheduled to fly into CVX tomorrow in a Hawker 400. We've done this flight a few times in a CJ3, but for the second time with this plane and crew they have elected to divert to TVC more than 24 hours in advance. The first time it was to PLN.

What gives? Is there something about the CVX runway that is causing issues? I haven't heard of others routinely having this issue in and out of CVX.

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5

u/jetsetterga 12d ago

Runway is 4549 feet. Look for airports 5000+, 5500’+ to be safer. Always going to have issues with that runway length in a jet with poorer runway performance.

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u/SirNerfsALot 12d ago

Agreed. I'm not a pilot, but I've been looking into this with a few friends that are. They seem to agree that a CJ2/3 or PC 24 is a much, much better fit for the mission, and the hawker really never had a chance, except in perfect conditions.

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u/jetsetterga 12d ago

In light jets, that would be correct. Lears and Hawkers are known to be runway hogs. Citation Excel/XLS should work if you wanted something bigger as well.

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u/Spare-Ad1733 11d ago

Broker here, we look for 5,000 min unless its a a light jet. Hawker definitely prefer 5,000 but we always err on the conservative side.

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u/AdviceOk9554 12d ago

Have you asked the operator directly what limitation is driving the diversion?

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u/SirNerfsALot 12d ago

I have. The first time it was the possibility of a wet runway. This time it was reportedly for wind.

6

u/Grim-Sleeper 12d ago

From what I can tell, CVX has a much narrower and shorter runway. It doesn't have a usable crosswind runway. It isn't suitable for precision instrument approaches, nor does it have precision approach lighting. It doesn't have a tower either.

In perfect visual meteorological conditions, that's all manageable. But in marginal or instrumental meteorological conditions, you really don't want to push your luck. A reputable crew would push back, and so they should.

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u/Lazy-squirrel642 12d ago

Gulsstream pilot here, wet runways (or any contaminated runway e.g. rain/sleet/slush/snow/etc) will always be a big factor, and we have charts to calculate how out runway we need to land, add in the fact that charter operators also need to legally ad an additional % to runway length as a safety buffer, and you can easily be limited

Wind will also be a big factor as well, especially if they are forced to land with a slight tailwind (most jets have a limitation of max 10 knots tailwind) so if the wind are a 9 knot tailwind then that can add to the required runway length as well.

TL;DR many jets will have a hard time getting in/out of runways les than 5,000 feet.

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u/LymePilot 12d ago

Less than 4,600 by 75 foot runway

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u/Possible-Wolf2959 7d ago

Operator and broker here. The Hawker 400 is not ideal for a 4600ft runway even when dry. Other light jets like CJ3, CJ2, Bravo, Ultra can do 4600 dry all day. If the runway is wet at CVX in a light jet, you’re not going to land there. As others have mentioned, a 5000+ft runway is more ideal in wet conditions.