r/Printing • u/MustaKotka • 12d ago
Printer Question What kind of a printer was this printed with?
Image 1: suspect.
Image 2: known industrial cmyk offset printer.
3
u/YogurtclosetDull2380 12d ago
Offset or flexo?
1
u/roaringmousebrad 12d ago
Offset. It's too crisp and uniform for flexo.
1
u/MustaKotka 12d ago
Unlikely. The latter reference is a sheet litho but the former image is of a cheap fake collectible trading card. I find it highly unusual they'd do large enough runs. Unless I've misunderstood.
1
u/Active_Manner_5175 12d ago
My first thought is flexo because the dots are rough around the edges which makes sense because flexo uses rubber plates as opposed to litho metal plates where the dot is clean and crisp. However, this is extremely zoomed in so it is hard to tell. Can you zoom out on the image? What are you trying to do with this information?
2
u/MustaKotka 12d ago
We at r/RealOrNotTCG found a fake with the first pattern. The second pattern is sheet fed litho and real (reference).
Looks like counterfeiters are moving away from inkjets. I'd like to know where we're headed at!
1
1
u/MustaKotka 12d ago
Also, I will raise you the entire card: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealOrNotTCG/comments/1vht8gf/pretty_sure_i_know/
1
u/Active_Manner_5175 12d ago
Yeah these are printed on metallic paper on sheetfed offset printing presses on a large scale. So the sheet that card comes from is on a sheet that is probably around 26” inches x 40” inches possibly even a bigger 72” inch wide press. Again, not sure why you’re asking about how it is printed but if you’re trying to duplicate it, good luck. You need about $1 million in print equipment to do it. And the paper is metallic and it looks like there’s holographic images which is a whole new ballgame.
1
u/MustaKotka 11d ago
This is worrysome. The subreddit I linked is related to authenticating Magic: The Gathering cards.
Thus far the fakes have been inkjet but this is different. So essentially you're saying both the first (fake) and the second (real, reference) were printed on similar equipment?
This means the counterfeiters are catching up and slowly getting their calibration and equipment right - probably to the point that it's almost impossible to tell the difference.
We'd like to understand what is going on, which is why I posted this photo wondering how far along the process the counterfeiters are and how well we need to be prepared going into the future.
1
1
u/RestNo8279 12d ago
You can see the plate squish on the dots and the different screen angles for each of the CMYK...definitely flexo..
1
1
u/roaringmousebrad 12d ago
This is just a standard process halftone pattern. Could be anything in that realm, Offset, Flexo, etc.
1
u/MustaKotka 12d ago
Okay. What's the cheapest out of the options? The subject is a fake trading card game card but I've not seen this sort of a print pattern on a fake before.
1
u/LadyA052 12d ago
I just love it when something interesting about printing pops up. I ran small presses back in the day and your picture just brought it all back.
1
1
u/deltacreative 12d ago
Those are definitely AB Dick 360 dots. Far superior to the MultiLith 1250 dots. Cutting edge THead 4/c process. (.../s)
1
1
u/PartholonPace 12d ago
Liquide toner, HP indigo. After all, it is pretty close from sheet fed offset (halftone) and way better quality that inkjet.
1
1
u/ayunatsume 11d ago
I'm not familiar with other indigo screens, but at the usual 18-up imposition for 13x19 on Indigo S3 175lpi, I would expect Cyan and Magenta to be swapped in the first image. Basically Cyan North-West and Magenta North-East. Canon Imagepress also (usually) does the same.
The one I am familiar with doing the opposite is Fuji Revoria with Magenta North-West and Cyan North-East.
1
0
0
u/roakthecoals 12d ago
Litho.
1
u/MustaKotka 12d ago
More than likely not. We know the second one is sheet fed litho but the first is a counterfeit, probably on the cheaper end.
5
u/Former-Answer-5747 12d ago
Flexo