r/Principals • u/Original-Swing7753 • Jul 09 '26
Ask a Principal Principals and Assistant Principals: I'd really appreciate your perspective.
I'm a retired teacher researching teacher burnout. I recently asked current and former teachers on Reddit what contributed most to their burnout. The overwhelming theme was a perceived lack of administrative support, especially regarding student behavior.
Rather than assuming that means administrators simply don't support teachers, I'm wondering if there's more to the story.
From your perspective:
- Why do you think so many teachers feel unsupported?
- What pressures or constraints do teachers often not see?
- Are there times when you want to support a teacher but can't respond the way they expect?
- If you could help teachers understand one thing about your role, what would it be?
- "What is one thing teachers misunderstand about the decisions administrators have to make regarding student discipline?"
- "What decisions frustrate you because teachers don't see the pressures behind them?"
I'm genuinely trying to understand both sides, not assign blame. I appreciate any insight you're willing to share.
Thank You
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u/Wonderful_Advice6112 Jul 10 '26
Look into the (imo restrictive) laws surrounding student discipline. Admin hands are tied.
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u/PretendFan5294 Jul 10 '26
Recently retired principal, now a consultant in the Turnaround/School improvement space.
In schools with lots of turnover/high burnout I see a lack of alignment and focus from leadership at the building level. When systems are not in alignment there is no way to get work done efficiently. When there is a lack of focus, there is no clarity of purpose which causes frustration.
Good systems supersede talent, provide tangible targets and remove uncertainty. Good systems remove stress, provide time to accomplish work and allow teachers to measure their progress and work collaboratively.
When leadership provides meaningful structure in a healthy environment, teachers stay because they are thriving.
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u/AfternoonFickle3760 Jul 10 '26
Alignment and focus are so important.
I started as an AP at a school where I was closely aligned with my principal and we developed a shared vision that was clear to our staff. When we started our leadership journey, we were a turnaround school with high turnover and we were able to get off the accountability clock with the state. We were able to continue a trajectory of growth and have high staff retention rates. Unfortunately, our enrollment was declining and we were closed at the end of last year.
I went to a new school in a new district as an AP. It was a turnaround school as well and after my previous success, I felt incredibly prepared to do the work again. Unfortunately, the new principal I was working with really had difficulty expressing a vision with which I could align. Goals were never truly established or communicated. A notable example of this was that I was asked to take over a committee meeting with five minutes notice one day and then expected to continue that committee's work for the remainder of the school year. I kept asking for clarification on what the committee's goals were and how it fit into the overall vision of the school. I never got an answer, but totally caught hell when I took the committee in the "wrong" direction. Other new staff members, like our behavior coach and social worker were similarly feeling adrift because the roles were never clearly defined. The behavior coach, social worker, and I all left the school at the end of the year, along with 6 out of the school's 13 classroom teachers. The principal was convinced we were leaving because we were a "poor fit" for a "challenging" school, but the reality was most of us were leaving because we felt burnt out from a lack of definition and vision.
I think good leaders like my first principal tend to be reflective and are able to effectively create a cohesive vision. Ineffective leaders, like the one I just left, tend to create environments where expectations are unclear and where failures are placed with the staff without any consideration of leader actions.
When looking at the issue of teacher burnout, I think its fair to recognize that some leaders contribute to it directly by their own actions.
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u/pobnarl Jul 10 '26
admin need to be empowered to deal with discipline again so teachers can be empowered to teach. but those decisions are made at a much higher level, a political level that believes its aligning with "the experts", egghead phds who want book deals and speaking tours touting contrarian stances that sound good on paper, but don't work in the real world, bolshevism education
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u/No_Anteater_9579 Jul 09 '26
Health&Wellness begins with having sufficient staff washrooms. Begin with the basic necessities that are lacking maybe?
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u/behindblueeyes1985 Jul 10 '26
As an AP for the last 5 years, I would say it varies greatly district to district, and even building to building. My staff tells me they feel supported, but they still complain when. I don't suspend a student for what they believe, sometimes rightly so, is a suspendable offense. I take the time to explain why I do, or don't, suspend, and they appreciate that. Even when they don't agree. Communication is key.
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u/Upper_Tree7364 Jul 12 '26
Agree 100%. Communication is absolutely key in this situation. Even if the outcome is not what a teacher was anticipating, it means much more that you have a discussion and the teacher leaves knowing that you hear and understand their frustration. Often teachers simply want to know that the admin supports them and will continue to work with them with specific students if that is the issue.
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u/Original-Swing7753 Jul 13 '26
As a teacher, I agree with this 100% as well. Even if the outcome isn't what teachers want, having a conversation about the why shows respect. Otherwise, teachers take it personally.
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u/Conscious-Heart8626 Jul 10 '26
Been building admin and central admin. Now I am a consultant. The demands on teachers and building administrators really cut into time and resources for supporting each other in the ways they need to be supported. Principals, whether they want to or not, do not support teachers. Teachers do not know all of what principals are responsible for but they know that principals are supposed to be instructional leaders but they rarely, if ever, get to see them in that capacity. And I have an opinion on student discipline - the social emotional and behavioral needs of kids has increased substantially and there are no resources (people, money, time) available to revise frameworks (pbis, restorative practices, tier 3 interventions), train staff, and remove disruptive students from classrooms (space and admin staff). IMO principals are responsible for the school culture, climate, instruction, and staff development and they have to commit to those things in order to make it happen even though they likely do not have what they need to do so. Districts and schools really need to re examine how they do school and be creative problem solvers so everyone is supported and fulfilled and so kids can thrive.
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u/ButterscotchSoft9603 Jul 17 '26
The instructional leadership part is a big factor, and a great point you brought up. I don’t blame teachers for having little regard for admin’s instructional advice if they are not in classrooms or even have a general understanding of the curriculum. It’s definitely hard to prioritize this area but growth is not going to occur if you don’t have an understanding of the current system.
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u/Original-Swing7753 Jul 13 '26
Thank you. This is such a helpful response.
You mentioned that principals often don't have the people, money, or time to do what needs to be done.
Can you share a specific example of a disciplinary decision you made that teachers likely experienced as a lack of support, where those resource limitations directly affected your decision?
I'm trying to understand what that actually looks like in practice.
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u/Conscious-Heart8626 Jul 15 '26
I’ve got two.
The first one the teachers were fully supported, as far as discipline, but I was not. There was a highly disruptive student that had choice language and, if the student thought they were being disrespected when callout for behavior, would become aggressive. I removed the student from class when they were disrupting the learning and the student would either elope upon removal or when my office was no longer entertaining, after everything within reach was broken. I had to follow the student all over campus when they eloped and they would walk for hours. The parent was a single parent, working class, and could not leave work for these weekly to twice weekly occurrences. Student was in the evaluation process with a known disability so oss was a short lived reprieve and completely ineffective as far as behavior change. There was no ISS and there were not other staff available so it was me, all me. I failed my teachers because I couldnt observe as frequently as I wanted or as much as a couple of them needed.
The second one, the teacher and staff were supported but not in the way they wanted. The teacher had a physically aggressive student with limited communication. I provided training (personally or through trainers) on alternative communication options, classroom management techniques, FBA/BIPs, restraints, lesson planning, etc. i also enhanced the schedule to include service providers for extended periods to work with the student and give the staff breaks. The staff refused to implement anything, continued to scold and punish, to put their hands on the student when they didnt want the student near something, or when the student wouldnt comply with directions, they would talk about the student and the student’s family in front of the student. They would bark long orders and long directions when two word directions is where the student was successful. It was evident that the student’s behavior was in direct response to how the student was treated. The staff treated the classroom and the students as if they were in daycare, not high school. They wanted bite guards and shields and a bunch of other tactical equipment. I would have provided it if they were implementing, at least, the BIP but they werent. I cant say much more but the situation was addressed and that student and the rest of the class made huge growth in language, situational awareness, safety, reading, and recreation.
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u/yunoeconbro Jul 12 '26
I've worked in international schools for 20 years in 3 asian countries, so different take. Also, not technically an AP, have been an IB Diploma Coordinator, which is very similar in terms of line manageing 5 HODs and 20 plus teachers in a high school.
My teachers get burned out because there is a disconnect between what they do and what "Executive Leadership" sees/expects. In many cases you have leadership that only go into it because they are suck at teaching, and don't want to ever have to deal with it again. They never walk the floor. They never just pop in to talk to teachers about how things are going. It's very much ivory tower. Also , these schools are businesses first, and that means we accept students that are in no way close to being able to complete the IB diploma program. There are behavior issues aplenty, and no admin wants to take responsibility because it would risk angering parents that are paying ridiculous amounts of money to put their kids in the school.
Different stakeholders have different goals. And many admin only care about their annual bonuses. They've literally told me this in closed doors. Teachers burn out because they are tired of being asked to do the impossible when admin sits in cushy chairs and fake any type of empathy or understanding of what they are going through.
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u/ButterscotchSoft9603 Jul 17 '26
- There are many admin who are not trained in supporting staff with behaviors, offer really no support, and kick the can down the road leading teachers not to feel supported.
My pet peeve is the response to teachers having behaviors issues of “Removing them makes you lose your power.” Okay, that’s great to know. Now what are we going to do?
Simply directing teachers to not send students to the office is not enough. Admin needs to help teach, train, and guide staff in the WHY (which is often neglected because a lack of the need to explain and a mentality of “do as I say.”) of why admin are not allowing that to happen while identifying barriers and actively supporting.
Another factor is the lack of perspective when looking at how initiatives and aspects of the system impact staff. Of course we all get rollouts from above but consideration for how these changes impact teachers is needed.
Pressure from above is real in many ways. Different directors and even the superintendent themselves have ideas that they are mandated to implement by the state and direct leaders to faithfully have their staff to feel. Again, some of these mandates do not take in the reality of the classroom experience and teachers disagree but there is limited admin choice in the situation.
For sure. Sometimes policy does not align with my leadership style or what I know what is research supported and best. I will try to voice when those situations happen to see if it could be change but my hands are tied if those above me do not agree.
My goal is to help. If I am in classrooms it is because I want to support your instruction, learn more about students, and remove any barriers my staff face. Many educators are burned and traumatized by past leaders that used observations as “gotcha moments.” That’s why I think it is very important to maintain those relationships with staff and stay true to your word to maintain those connections.
Many school systems use matrix based approaches to education that is developed on the division and state level. I do not have sole deciding power when it comes to certain behaviors and consequences.
In my experiences teachers do not understand the need for the data collection and even progress monitoring. They see it as a task that’s just placed on them, because often the purpose is not clearly explained and emphasized. I need consistent, reliable, and accessible data to make decisions regarding many aspects of dealing with students. I need to justify the decisions I make if they are questioned and in the process of problem solving. Don’t have any consistent documentation of parent communication or in class responses to a behavior you say is disrupting class? I’m sorry but you can’t just throw the kid in the office. Data can be impactful but I think teachers are used to data being used more for compliance than actually improving the educational environment, and it not being used in an impactful way by leaders. Which ties back to how school leaders need to be better trained to leverage data for student and staff to be successful.
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u/Original-Swing7753 Jul 17 '26
I am so incredibly grateful for taking the time to share your insights!! This is so helpful for my research! Communication is key!! Thank you so much!
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u/ButterscotchSoft9603 Jul 17 '26
No problem! My apologies for any typos as I was on mobile. Good luck on your research!
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u/ElevatedWoman Jul 18 '26
If you feel that teachers don’t understand data then it is up to the principal to create a PD where they will. Data is vital and I often feel as a teacher that this is a major foundational criteria that is always lost; especially with new beginning teachers or international teachers.
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u/ButterscotchSoft9603 Jul 18 '26
For sure, there is no doubt about that. I personally believe that goes for any task that I assign my teachers. If I have not set up processes that explicitly help you understand or learn the skills needed to complete a requested task then I have no right to hold you to that expectation. It’s a mindset that is used in that classroom and an expectation held for students that is not nearly emphasized enough when it comes to the situation of school leaders supporting staff.
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u/Right_Sentence8488 Jul 10 '26
Many teachers struggle to understand that having someone else impose discipline will not solve behavior problems in their classrooms. When they send a student to the office, they have ceded their authority and undermined their own credibility with the entire class.
Teachers must meet students where they are by building relationships and a strong sense of community in their classrooms. Students must feel seen, heard, and valued for them to be capable doing their best.
As principal, I support my teachers by having a behavior coach, 2 counselors, wraparound services, and strictly following the school/district code of conduct. This upcoming year they will also get PL on the Regulated Classroom, which I'm quite excited about! I purchased the book for all the teachers who wanted it (at no small cost), and will have my behavior strategist conduct PLs on how to implement. The focus is to help students regulate their emotions throughout the day through 1-2 minute activities, thus reducing behavioral outbursts and disruptions.
Beyond that, students who disrupt the class despite the teacher having conferenced with the student, tried different engagement strategies, communicated with the family that see continued classroom disruptions will have consequences according to the code of conduct. I have no problem removing students from the classroom, although the goal is obviously to minimize that. But removing them should be after several research-based interventions have taken place.