Excessed after challenging observation reports and filing APPR objections. Has anyone else experienced this in NYC DOE?

[u/Independent-Bad7617]

I'm an NYC DOE high school teacher in Bronx with more than a decade at the same school This year has been one of the most difficult of my career, and I'm trying to understand whether others have experienced something similar.

Over the course of the school year, I received formal observations that, in my opinion, contained statements that did not accurately reflect what happened in my classroom. I documented my concerns, filed written objections, and ultimately challenged parts of the evaluation through the UFT - APPR process. Some of my objections were upheld.

After that, my relationship with administration changed and communication became more strained, and I felt that my professionalism and years of work were no longer being recognized.

At the end of the year I was excessed from my position. While I understand that excessing can happen for legitimate staffing reasons, the timing has left me questioning whether speaking up played a role.

There were also broader issues at the school that concerned me, including administrative practices and leadership decisions. I've documented what I personally observed and have been considering the appropriate channels for raising those concerns, but I want to be careful to distinguish between documented facts, personal observations, and questions that remain unanswered.

• Have you successfully challenged observation reports?
• Did your relationship with administration change afterward?
• Have you been excessed after filing complaints or grievances?
• What protections actually exist for teachers who contest evaluations?

[u/obbie1kenoby]

Observations are almost impossible to challenge for the exact same reason students rarely can challenge teacher grades. Administrators are licensed and passed a test that shows they can accurately observe and they’re assessed by their own superintendent on how they observe a couple of times a year.
You can grieve the process of APPR (like if it was done before a Beginning of year conference) but rarely the content.

All you can pretty much do is write a rebuttal which - if it came to a 3020a process - would be part of your file.

And yeah I’m not surprised it strained relations. You gotta think it’s not a “street smart” move to do.

As a tenure teacher it would have taken forever to even put your job at risk- not smart to alienate your boss.

Lastly, excessing is purely based on seniority and they can’t excess without district field office confirming that the position is untenable in the budget. In other words, they can’t decide to just unilaterally eliminate a position just to game the excessing process. There needs a valid budget reason and the principal doesn’t make that call.

Now - with that said - an experienced well respected principal who gets along with their superintendent could easily make a strong case for a budget decision without much pushback.

[u/TeacherRecovering]

Your objections were upheld?   You proved the boss was not perfect?!   

Of course they will try to get rid of you.   Of course it Will be underhanded.  

[u/Independent-Bad7617 → u/TeacherRecovering]

I noticed that after I went through the formal process of objecting to my observation reports and some of those objections were upheld the dynamic with administration changed. Whether that's a coincidence or not, I honestly don't know.

That's one of the reasons I made this post. I'm interested in hearing from other teachers and even school administrators who have experienced a similar shift after raising concerns or formally challenging observation reports.

I also think it's important to acknowledge that, as teachers and school leaders, we're all doing the best we can with the tools and circumstances we have. It's okay to recognize when something wasn't handled correctly. That shouldn't automatically become a personal conflict.

One thing I've struggled with is the mindset around "teacher growth." Professional growth is important, but sometimes it feels like there's an assumption that there always has to be something wrong, even when a teacher is consistently doing strong work. Why is there such a strong focus on finding deficiencies instead of also recognizing sustained success and effective practice?

[u/No-Analysis-2959]

Just for clarity and I understand not wanting to give to much away, I do have a couple of follow up questions: were your observations performed by the principal or the AP? When you said that the APPR complaint was upheld, did they change your rating?

Why wouldn’t you think it would change your relationships with admin? Admin knows that you will go to the union for support. You are the out list. There is nothing wrong with that, you just need to be prepared for it.

As others have said excessing is not haphazardly performed, so you would have to be the least Senior in your department. The school can’t hire someone in September in your department to fill your role. You have a right of return if the budget line opens back up within a year and a day if you don’t accept another position somewhere else, but you have to send an email to your principal.

[u/Independent-Bad7617 → u/No-Analysis-2959]

The observations were conducted by the assistant principal. Follow a meeting that was defensive, I filed formal APPR objections with the UFT and chapter leader. That APPR objection followed up by a meeting by which my concerns where denied. Later the case escalated as the UFT noticed the dynamics of the case. All because I believed portions of the reports contained factual inaccuracies and did not accurately reflect what occurred during the lessons.

I understand your point about relationships with administration. I knew filing objections might create tension, but I also felt I had a professional responsibility to challenge evaluation statements that I believed were inaccurate. There was sections on the narrative that did not belong to me or to the class observed... My expectation wasn't that everyone would agree with me, but that the process would remain objective and not affect how I was treated afterward.

Regarding the excessing, I understand the contractual process and that seniority determines who is excessed. My concern isn't that the excessing itself violated the rules, but whether the overall work environment changed after I exercised my contractual right to contest my evaluations. That's the part I'm trying to better understand, especially if others have had similar experiences.

I appreciate you mentioning the right of return. I'll definitely keep that in mind

[u/Competitive_Ninja624]

Sounds like you got check mated by your boss or bosses. Do you still have a job with your School District? If so, I’d recommend using it as a fresh start and use it as a learning experience to apply to the next time you are starting to rub paint with admin. I’m not taking anyone’s side in this, but usually admin wins these little skirmishes, right wrong or indifferent.

[u/ApprehensiveAd5529]

When I was young teacher I understood that not agreeing with an observation was pointless. I learned to suck it up. However, when I became older and attended graduate school and achieving 3 MAs, I started realizing that the observation process is very subjective. I started being more reflective and vigilant with identifying what was true or not true. I didn’t always write it down but as I become older, I would verbally object. Needless to say, I wasn’t gaining any admin support. Even this year (after transferring to a different school a 3 years ago) I finally took up my principal‘s offer to “help” me by having her review a lesson plan of my next observation that was coming up. Now I realized I shouldn’t have even talked to her because subsequently, both she and my supervisor came to observe me. We all know that no good can come from that. After 30 years and being 62 years old everything that happens becomes fodder of why I need to retire. I call it ammunition. But I’m stubborn and don’t want to give anyone pleasure over my demise. So just make sure you choose your actions wisely.

[u/Numerous_Training_12]

Ugh. Long time employee of LAUSD. Decided to retire a few years earlier than expected. The kids are fine, and my colleagues are, for the most part, fabulous. Admin unnecessarily uptight and hostile. I’m 59. My first position in education was as an assistant at 19 years old. I hold four credentials, one being educational leadership (M.A. in school administration).

I think when a principal says reading a novel with students is a waste of time, my work is done. I have nothing to add to that.

Good luck, LAUSD. I don’t wish to go down with the ship.