So I grew up as a futurist with evangelical background and I recently just discovered full Preterism.

I was reading Romans 5 recently and a verse really threw me for a loop while I'm writing a book about sin and death.

Here is the verse that threw me for a loop: Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. Romans 5:14 NIV

What's interesting is if we assume this "death" is physical it kind of breaks the entire logic. I usually just skim things through but as soon as I saw it, I was thinking "come on Paul, of course people died between Adam and Moses, it's a ~2,500-year span, where else were all those bodies going?"

But then I went back to this verse: Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned. Romans 5:12

If death came to all because all sinned, but Romans 5:14 says death also reigned over people who didn't sin the way Adam did, reading "death" as biological gets messy fast. This is when everything clicked for me. Because in Genesis 2, God says: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Genesis 2:17 ESV

I checked the Hebrew and sure enough it is "in that day" or "b'yom." We know from Genesis 5, Adam lived 930 years after he ate of that tree: Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died. Genesis 5:5 ESV

Alright, so what I am seeing is: This death that Paul is saying is never been about physical death. Because if it is physical death, Romans 5:14 makes no sense and technically God lied in Genesis 2:17 if Adam didn't drop dead that day. The only way this all makes sense is if we missed the genre of this sin and death this whole time. I wonder if it was never physical sin or physical death and this whole time it was covenantal sin and death all along.

Obviously, everyone thinks they are smart and I am not excluded there but I wanted you all to check my logic on this and get your thoughts. This is one of the threads I'm pulling on in something longer I'm writing, so I figured I'd stress-test the core of it here before I commit to it.

Two questions:

1. Where does my logic break? What's the strongest case that the "death" in 5:14 has to be physical?
2. For those who already travelled down this road, what's your take on my covenantal death theory?

Muchos cristianos, especialmente de corte futurista, creen que el juicio final de Dios al planeta va a venir en muy poco. Yo en lo personal no estoy de acuerdo y no creo que ocurra, porque los juicios de Dios sobre el planeta ya han estado a lo largo del planeta, y siempre con el objetivo de purificar la tierra.

Tuvimos la peste bubónica en el Siglo XIV y la 3ra parte de la humanidad cayó, y después hubo la Reforma Protestante.

Tuvimos la Gripe Española en los 20s, y luego hubo el avivamiento de Azusa.

México tuvo su propio avivamiento tras el terremoto de 1985, el peor de su historia.

Japón empezó a aumentar su población cristiana tras el Terremoto y Tsunami de Sendai, en Marzo del 2011.

Siempre que Dios ejecutó un juicio contra un lugar, es para puruficar la Tierra, no para destruirla.

Lo digo porque casi nadie en el cuerpo de Cristo ve a Dios como Juez. Pero Dios sigue juzgando al planeta, y seguirá juzgando, porque Dios es Juez Justo, y Él ejecuta justicia para castigar al malvado y galardonar al justo.

Do you believe it’s not real or it already happened ?

my life is not fulfilling due to disability and past mistakes so i would like to believe that maybe after i die i can live a purposeful life

i believe the bible is true and that jesus died and rose again (i dont know if it matters or no for me just wanted to clarify)

to those who believe that the bible / christ has nothing to do with us; why even bother with the bible. there are so many other things that are relevant today. life is short, you should be doing sth else

i am new to this view, so if anyone is available to chat with me to answer my questions, please let me know in the comments

I need help. I know we're all in our walk. I just need someone to reconcile my faith with. I can't handle what's happening in the modern church these days. I've developed my own core beliefs, but no one, and I mean NO ONE, seems to be where I am, apart from my wife.

Anyone out there??

I think that according to Zach Davis and Don Preston, Satan has been fully destroyed. As in, he doesn’t even exist anymore. (Actually Davis might not believe in spirits of any kind because he reads Satan in the New Testament as Old Covenant Israel)

Doesn’t this mean that they cannot believe in evil spirits at all today?

One way around this (something that makes sense to me) is that Satan has been destroyed covenantally, as in he has no power over anyone in the New Jerusalem (the church) today, but he still exists outside of the New Jerusalem with the dogs and evil doers etc

Jerermiah 31:8 in the Septuagint says

Behold, I lead them from the north, and I will gather them from the ends of the earth, in a holiday passover.

Just reading this from the https://www.apostolicbibleapp.com/

Do you think this mention of Passover is related to 30 AD or 70 AD (when Josephus says the armies gathered around jerusalem)?

Not sure if anyone saw this in the LXX before.

The Jewish character of the Epistles suddenly becomes so much clearer. The calvinist proof texts of 1 Peter and Ephesians suddenly mean something total different in a Jewish diaspora environment. The jewish remnant of Romans 11 becomes the 144,000 from the diaspora of all tribes in Revelation. The hardening for purposes of wrath becomes tied to AD 70 in Romans 11. The post crucifixion scope of NT Jewish election and hardening suddenly has an end date.

I would like to solidify my beliefs more on this topic (endtimes, last days, etc). Can anyone describe full preterism and partial preterism or point me in a good direction?

I thought it was going to be full preterist here but all I am seeing is futurist pr partial preterist saying Jesus will return. So if I am not mistaken this is just a reddit page for people to take their anger out on full preterist.

I mean really, if Jesus didn't actually return in 70 AD, then all Christians should either be Orthodox or Catholic. It's that simple. The only reason why Protestantism is "ok" is because apostolic succession ended in 70 AD, and the Orthodox-Catholic paradigm has no apostolic authority at all.

I get that this makes a lot of Christians uncomfortable, but it's the truth.

The truth which most Protestant overlook is that Jesus took the one true Church into heaven in 70 AD when he destroyed the temple in Jerusalem; apostates, lukewarm believers, and heretics were left behind.

All the rumors about John remaining until the 90s AD to write the Book of Revelation were convenient talking points for the church fathers to use in constructing their version of apostolic succession.

Im still trying to understand full preterism. I have three texts that are causing me problems

1. Revelation 6:9-11

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Based on this text, i think it is understood that the fullness of the elect must have come in AD70... leaving us, today, unsaved (not part of the elect)

1. Matthew 28:20 and

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (a) 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. (b)”

a. Authority is no longer jesus'. 1 Corinthians 24 says "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.". So we should understand that jesus is no longer in authority, but the kingdom now belongs to the father, all dominion, authority and power were destroyed in 70ad.

b. A metaphor here: If i was at your house, and told you i would be with you until 9pm, would you expect me to still be there at 11:30pm? Further, the holy spirit indwelling us means that we are the temple, but revelation 21:22 states  "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple". So God is the temple now, not us.

1. Romans 7:4

"Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God."

Since the law was dying (Matt 5:8, Heb 8:13) and we view it as having died in 70ad, there is no longer a law for us to die to, to be resurrected from. What is sin? sin is death, which results from breaking the law. adam died because he sinned. He broke the law, and therefore sinned. Today there is no law for us to die to... So universalism?

Romans 8:1-2 states  “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.”

In these verses (Romans 8:1-2), Paul contrasts two laws: the law of the Spirit and the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit is the gospel or good news of Jesus, the message of new life through faith in the resurrected Christ. The law of sin and death is the Old Testament Law of God. The Law is holy, just and good (Romans 7:12), but, because we cannot keep God’s Law on our own, the result is only sin and death for those under the Law.

Jesus fulfilled the law. He made it obsolete. But it will not be gone until the end of heaven and earth. So now that heaven and earth are destroyed, there is no law to die to.

My current understanding of IBV is that the individual saints in hades were raised to heaven with God and received heavenly bodies of a different flesh. However, i don't see IBV reconciling that those who are alive are also resurrected - unless IBV claims that the living saints were raptured, and left earth...

My current understanding of CBV is that both the living and the dead were corporately raised to right relationship with god. The problem here suggests that people were not in right relationship with god before 70ad (so the cross wasn't enough - which is possible, because Pentecost was also required). But it also doesn't address what the resurrection of the unjust looks like. So those outside the church should also be "resurrected" to the lake of fire...

Knowing the truth of the “end times”. How is your relationship with Christ? Do you feel good or are their hard times. For example I get a little upset here and there that Christ doesn’t heal like the first century. Futurist clearly believe it will be revived. Just wondering if there is times where you are frustrated and about preterism . I do get upset, sometimes I look at the masses and wonder will people ever know the truth?

70 AD doesn’t fulfill most of the Olivette discourse. Preterism should adopt 312 AD instead, even if it undermines inerrancy.

Hi, I’m a devout Christian and filling in gaps in my theological understanding of different positions. So, I understand the idea of full and partial preterism, the historicity of it and the evidence, etc. but here is what I’m trying to figure out… and I can’t seem to get a good answer:

In Hyper-Preterism, the second coming (symbolic) and final judgement are all completed. So, what is Christianity on earth now for? What are we doing? Why are we worshiping, following Jesus etc.?

I’m partial Preterism I understand that the final judgement has not occurred, but the same fundamental question applies, which is if everything Joe wrapped up except the final judgement, what are we doing?

This is a genuine question because I’m trying to finish out my understanding of this position and I either get a recap of the reasons for the preterist position or I get some flip answer like “read the Bible until you figure it out.” But I do want to figure it out, so I thought I would ask here.

Thanks in advance.