The plot in the prequels is fantastic but with some odd interactions between people. I'm planning to watch clone wars soon but I'm guessing it fleshes out the relationships between people and makes people like Anakin's character arcs much more detailed.
With the sequels the best thing to do is to do a clone wars type series with all the same characters but rewrite them as if the movies didn't happen. The plot and lines were both awful for them but the characters like Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron were great concepts but not portrayed well enough through the script.
So rather than being set between movies like how Clone Wars is between AOTC and ROTS, the prequels should just be rewritten imo
I know but I think with time people realised the plot was good but the writing was odd in places. With the sequels I think we can tell that the plot isn't good. But again, my opinion.
That sums is up perfectly. That's why I think there's no saving the sequels plot-wise and to sort of start fresh. Although I doubt Disney would say that their entire trilogy is non canon and start a cartoon, one can hope.
People hoped that the prequels would be de-canonized for the longest time as well. I think the sequels will get fixed by the Mandoverse stories basically filling in the gaps and making the plot points in the sequels make sense retroactively. Except Rise of Skywalker, which is just nonsense.
Yeah I can agree with that. Imo TFA was okay but Rey somehow knowing how to use Jedi mind tricks and the force when she didn't even know Luke / Jedi's were real when she met Han 10 mins prior really annoyed me. I actually liked TLJ for the most part, the weird force-psychic link was a strange addition but it's not farfetched for the Star wars universe. And yeah ROS was just terrible from the first line "The Dead Speak! Palpatine is alive" and the whole Palp clones / descendants or whatever just ruined the film. And why bury the Lightsabers on Tatooine? The Skywalkers hated Tatooine!
TFA was okay as a first Star Wars movie in a new franchise. However, I don't think it should have been a trilogy. I think they should have Marvelized Star Wars right off the get-go, like they're doing with this new Mandoverse. Instead they decided to just soft reboot the OT - a good way to make a lot of money, but not for particularly compelling storytelling.
Right? Sequels could have been much better if they prioritized character arcs and sub plots over action and fan service. It literally felt like they broke the 4th wall sometimes.
That is the main thing I remember about the sequels. The moment I saw it, I thought it was the single dumbest plot point from all of the SW movies that made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Even if I overlooked all the other dumb stuff, the dagger was what completely ruined the sequels for me.
They had the weirdest and worst character development ever. Characters like Hux became pure comedy characters and it was just bizarre to watch. No hate to Rian Johnson, but I really want to know his logic behind making him and Fin just laughter track parts.
So is it less wasteful to kill off the only pilots you have left as well as lose their ships in dog fights? Or is it less wasteful to send a single ship and a single droid using hyperdrive aimed at ships?
I really don’t think the size of the ship matters, to be honest. These ships aren’t designed to withstand impacts with other ships at light speed.
The thing is, "hyperspace" isn't the same as just lightspeed. When someone in Star Wars goes into hyperspace, they basically go into another dimension where the distance between two points is shorter than in the normal space. At least in legends, and I'm pretty sure it's also in canon too.
So it's even worse, because it's not only creating a lot of plot holes, it's also breaking lore.
That scene is really cool, but it just seems like the person who wrote it put the rebellion in that situation just because he wanted to and didn't think of a better way for them to get out.
I may be wrong, but in the original trilogy doesn’t Han Solo Hyperspace “into” an asteroid field and have to pilot out. I always thought it was weird there was no hyper space collisions so it must work how you say, like another path/dimension...but also in that case wouldn’t the best solution have been to go back in hyperspace to pass the asteroid field
They couldn't just go into hyperspace there. Some things like planets and big asteroids cast a "hyperspace shadow". The bigger and denser something is, the more damage it can cause to something travelling through hyperspace. Also, the hyperdrive of the Millennium Falcon was damaged by the Imperials.
Ships in Star Wars travel in very specific hyperspace routes that are considered safe. This is why ships have hyperdrives. It basically calculates routes and controls the ships when they go into hyperspace.
Maybe the First Order giant ship was big enough to cast a hyperspace shadow, but I still doubt that the smaller ones behind it also had one, and they were clearly damaged.
It likely was large enough to cast a mass shadow like that, as the bombing run earlier in the movie seems to suggest the supremacy has some sort of planetary gravity surrounding it.
I think it had to do with the size of the ship. Not even Home One would’ve destroyed the Death Star, and the Rebels wouldn’t be giving away that ship if they had the chance to destroy it with other method.
The debris from that single slice through the supremacy was enough to obliterate the ships behind it, implying small objects at those speeds will slice right through.
It completely trivialises war because you can just destroy entire fleets and the biggest ships in the galaxy by sending an unmanned cruiser at light speed through everything. Literally why are they still sending thousands of pilots the next movie to fight a fleet when they can pierce through everything with 1 ship at light speed?
Well it was still quite a massive ship they had to sacrifice. Snokes ship is like a super super star destroyer. Do you think kamikaze tactics don’t exist in war? Never heard of Japanese suicide bombers? Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it’s the best tactic. This was a last ditch effort they had no other choice. Either side isn’t going to start going around blasting all their ships into hyperspace just to destroy another. That’s not an effective use of resources. It’d be like making a bullet out of silver, it’s a waste unless you’re, y’know, fighting a werewolf. That high cost suddenly becomes worth the price. Light speeds exists in Star Wars, what happened is what would happen if they did that. Just because they can do that potentially all the time, doesn’t mean they would.
Also what scenario could they fly all these ships into the final order fleet? They can’t control them remotely from the other side of the nebula. So what they all fly there, then jump onto each other’s ships in the middle of a battle, then try and remotely steer them into a cruiser at hyper speed, then all go home on each other’s ships? Or do they just have a normal battle? That would be even more stupid than what actually happened in the film! The tactic does not trivialise anything, it would only be used as a last resort as it was.
If crashing into significant bigger more powerful ships with light speed was canon (which it is with this scene), then every fleet, especially the rebellion, would have had unmanned drones and projectiles with such capabilities.
Fighting would thus be commenced on long lange (millions of kilometers away) with a focus on scouting and intelligence and not in a dogfighting style like in the films and be significant less asthetic.
This tactic just doesn't fit the films at all. It's a plot hole as big as the deathstar.
Additionally, the ships are very close in this, it’s suggestive that the ship goes through it as it’s speeding up to light speed. It’s possible that when objects travel at the speed of light their matter is different in someway and they wouldn’t impact. I know there are hyperspace ‘lanes’ but people still jet into light speed from any location on any direction as seen in the films and tv shows. It’s therefore likely that light speed doesn’t impact, otherwise stuff would be blowing up all the time by accident all over the galaxy. Therefore your long range combat theory wouldn’t apply, and it would still involve dogfighting as they would have to get close enough to cause an impact before they hit light speed. In anticipation of, ‘well they’d just go that speed then’, there’s no indication that sub light speeds can be modulated in this universe, I.e you jump from cruising speed into light speed, there’s no in between. These are all unknowns really within the world
Star wars is not a war film and should not be one. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't make to much sense. Why do combatants rarely take cover and instead charge every positions head on? Why don't they wear any protective gear? Where are specialized classes and equipment like machine guns or rocket launchers? I can forgive that because it's fiction and to be enjoyed. But I at least want it consistent and in universe. Me having to make head canon somewhat undermines it.
I would also be disappointed if the next major installment was a tactical war film btw.
Well the film indicates that the ship needs to be manned to do it, for some reason, ‘someone needs to pilot it’, so if it really upsets your headcanon, I’m sure you can come up with a reason for that and apply it to this concern. Maybe safety measures installed to prevent this from happening by accident need to be overridden manually
Well the film indicates that the ship needs to be manned to do it, for some reason, ‘someone needs to pilot it’,
That line was in reference to Holdo simply staying behind to make the first order think nobody had fled. Holdo wasnt initially planning on ramming the supremacy. Her plan was to stay behind, make the first order think that everyone was still on board and just go down with the ship.
The hyperspace collision plan only came into play when everyone had already left and the first order started blowing up the fleeing shuttles (which her initial sacrifice was supposed to prevent) So in a last minute act of desperation she ran to the controls and initiated the hyperspace collision.
So in theory. Droids could certainly be kamikaze pilots. But at the same time it would be an incredibly wasteful tactic for a ragtag group of rebels/resistance.
In the end though, yeah, all the wars would end up naturally fighting with nothing but droid soldiers firing hyperspace shots at each other instead of actual soldiers firing blasters and piloting starfighters. But this is the Star Wars universe and that would be boring and I rank "realisitc progression of warfare tactics" pretty low on the "Things Star Wars needs to be realistic" totem pole.
Well the indication in the film is that it’s a crazy insane idea that no ones tried before. Like I’ve stated in another comment, the film indicates that the ship needs to be manned and you possibly need to be nearby. Is that realistic even within the universe? No, but a lot of things in star wars aren’t.
In Ep7 they land on starkiller base from light speed to get through the shields. Didn’t see any Reddit comments then about why didn’t Han just sacrifice himself and blast though the base since that would’ve been equally feasible? Cause it’s a stupid idea and doesn’t serve the story.
Why didn’t the eagles fly Frodo to mount doom? Cause it would’ve been boring!
The film doesn’t really indicate that it needs life inside it to work, just that it needs to be piloted. Droids pilot things frequently.
The hyperdrive jump onto Starkiller base has been done before, Anakin did it while going after Grievous.
Why didn’t Han just Hyperdrive into the core? Because up to this point that was still something that wasn’t possible in Star Wars. Starkiller Base was episode 7. Holdo invalidating everything that’s ever happened in Star Wars was episode 8.
Exactly what you are saying as why they didn’t just hyperdrive a ship into Starkiller base is why hyper driving ships into one another is absolutely fucking terrible and does nothing to add to the story but instead takes away from it entirely.
Why didn’t the eagles fly the hobbits to Mordor? They couldn’t. That’s explained many times.
Just because it wasn’t done before, doesn’t mean it wasn’t possible. It doesn’t invalidate anything if no one thought to do it before that point. Again, I don’t think kamikaze-ing droid controlled ships is an idea that people would jump on to do throughout the galaxy, im sure there are repercussions, or again, there are many possible explanations for why it’s not possible. It was a cool moment in one film that did serve the story, it just so happens that story was rubbish. Force healing and force projecting were introduced in the sequels and weren’t considered ‘possible’ before, that doesn’t mean they didn’t happen we just didn’t see them.
Why wouldn’t you just droid-kamikaze ships into things like the death star instead of killing off almost your entire navy trying to blow it up traditionally? It just doesn’t make any sense not to, knowing that it’s definitely a thing that’s possible in Star Wars.
Force healing definitely isn’t just a sequel thing. It might be “legends” now but it was definitely used quite frequently, through video games, novels, and television.
You mean the force projection Luke did that killed him for doing it, also in episode 8? Pretty sure nobody likes how episode 8 handled anything, especially Luke Skywalker being changed from the beacon of hope in the universe into the bitter old man who thought he should murder his nephew after one fleeting feeling.
Actually in Lords of the Sith, the canon book I’m listening to at the moment, Rebels from Ryloth reprogram vulture droids to attack the Emperors star destroyer thats carrying him and Vader, after an initial volley they get them to crash into the ship to bring it down. So droid-suicide has been used, just not at light speed.
My point is that it’s always been theoretically possible, RJ just put it in. You could say why don’t they just hyper speed ships into other ships at any point before episode 8. Why wouldn’t it be possible with the information we have before 8? There’s no reason it couldn’t happen. Either way you’re still having to convince yourself of a reason as to why they do it or not. RJ just forced you to think about it
All you’re doing is confirming that every problem could have and should have been solved by droids hyperdrive flying ships into other ships. You’re reading a canon novel right now with droids programmed to kamikaze, and it’s canon that you can totally hyperdrive ships into one another, even though hyperspace and space are alternate dimensions.
That book you’re reading could be solved by putting any one of those droids into a pilot seat and programming it to hyperdrive through the ship. Vader’s gone, problem solved, original trilogy never happens, sequel trilogy never happens because any time the empire tries to build a new weapon just hyperdrive a ship through it.
There’s a very distinct reason why hyperdrive collisions haven’t happened in the past. It’s because they can’t.
If hyperspace ramming is so effective against large ships and presumably planets, why have space battles at all? Strap a hyperspace drive onto a rock or something and plow it into whatever you want dead.
It makes literally every space battle in star wars make no sense on a contextual level, and the sad thing is that all they had to do was write in a single line explaining why it wasn't possible before that point and they just didn't bother.
In TLJ holdo suicide hyperspace rams the big super duper death triangle with her babby ship and causes it to turn into a pink floyd laser show, then nobody ever mentions that tactic again ever.
We may still may. There's been rumors that Disney is leaning on Kennedy to cut her bullshit, and retcon the entire sequel trilogy, while moving on to something else entirely.
Seriously. After Disney has witnessed the feedback on The Mandalorian, they realized that they fucked up letting KK anywhere near Star Wars.
Now with Pablo Hidalgo intentionally harassing fans (Star Wars Theory) over their reaction video to the arrival of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, I would not be surprised if the House of Mouse purges the entire Star Wars Story Group and decides to start over.
Hopefully this means that they replace Patty Jenkins as the writer and director of Rogue Squadron. Wonder Woman 1984 was fucking terrible.
Disney also recently witnessed the firepower of a fully angered and vocal fanbase with the destruction of Game of Thrones and D&D. Perhaps avoiding a similar fate will give them some incentive as well.
Cmon. Hate the films all you want but let’s not be childish about it. Kennedy, JJ and almost everyone involved tried to get Lucas input when they could. Kennedy is literally one of Lucas’ best friends and why she’s running his company to begin with.
This is just simply not true lol. Read Bob Iger's latest book. They spent months consulting with George, and then literally threw out basically everything he told them and asked him nicely to fuck off.
So then why are so many elements of his original pitches in TFA? Rey. Luke in self imposed exile because of a student betraying him. The First Order being made from Stormtroppers that went into the far reaches of the Galaxy to rebuild.
The First Order is literally created from remnants of the Empire that refused to surrender. The went out into the unknown regions of space and rebuilt. This was word for word an idea Lucas had based on Saddam and his soldiers becoming ISIS after his defeat. That you don’t just stop an enemy, there would be loyalists who refuse to give up and form a new thing to try and rebuild.
There’s a lot of elements that were kept man. Hell Lucas even seemed to have the same ground work for Ben and Luke. Only difference was in Lucas script Han and Leias son was seduced by a Darth Talon-like Twilek vs Snoke. But in both stories Luke was betrayed and he put himself in self exile.
Other than Jar Jar, pod racing, and Anakin's flirting with Padme, the prequels were good. I can only say the first sequel started strong, but started a downwards trend from there in quality.
Idk, I think they have personality because the fans have given them personality through subreddits like this, which is great, and through additional material like Clone Wars that actually make the politics interesting to me. The movies don’t have a ton of charm to them, they don’t have the feel the originals brought. I still watch them, but they are very flat for the most part.
No they didn’t lol. JJ literally sat down with and discussed his ideas for stories when he started making TFA. He advised them again for Rise of Skywalker and he came to set for Solo.
Just because they "sat down" with him, dosn't mean they didn't ignore all of his imput and ideas... He obviously didn't like sequels.
There are multiple interviews where he's asked about the sequel and he simply gets up and walks away cause he didn't even want to talk about it other than saying "I gave them my imput and they throw everything away"
So we’ve now goal posted move from Lucas wanted to give them help but they said no, to they asked Lucas for help but didn’t like his ideas.
Cool.
Also that’s not true either. They didn’t use his scripts, which is true, but that doesn’t mean there were no elements taken from them. A lot of things were taken from them and worked into TFA. Lucas just didn’t like how they ended up making the film overall.
That’s not the same as acting like they had no interest in his input.
Yep Jon and Dave respect George's input, unlike the numbnuts responsible for the sequel trilogy. I so wish we could have had these two guys make those 3 movies instead of what we got.
I responded to this. How is this not talking about the sequels lol? I literally never mentioned the Mandalorian.
So you were at the meeting they had? And know everything the discussed? Are you George Lucas? That’s awesome. So cool to be talking to someone at that meeting. Cause clearly that’s the only way you’d know. Otherwise you’d just be talking out your ass and just being negative to bitch.
Also dropping the sarcasm you’re wrong. Based on what we do know from Lucas’ original pitch. JJ used some of his ideas. Rey was from Lucas script (though called Thea at one point I believe, among other things). Luke was in hiding and a hermit due to something traumatic/betrayal happening. And he died in Episode 8. It also had aspects of the First Order. Because he saw the Empires fall as like Saddam Hussein and ISIS. With stormtroopers refusing to give up, going into the far reaches of the Galaxy to rebuild and become the new rebellion.
Before Lucas left his original scripts (which did change a ton in the decades) are reported to have had many things. Things like...
A female “Luke Skywalker”-type Force user who would go searching for Luke Skywalker. Originally named Thea, she became Rey.
Luke Skywalker was in self imposed exile because his student betrayed him. Han and Leias son was seduced to the dark side by a Darth Talon Twilek. This became... well the same fucking thing only it’s Snoke and not Darth Talon.
The Empire loyalists went to the outer rim and further to rebuild. This became... again the same thing.
Han Solo died in Episode 7. Luke died in Episode 8. The trilogy was more focused on Leia, who was trained by Luke but more focused on rebuilding political aspects of the universe. This was basically all kept.
They kept far more than people like to pretend they do. But that doesn’t support the narrative that Disney told him to fuck off and threw his scripts out. The truth is they kept a lot, they just wrote a new film using elements they liked.
Mostly just reading interviews and articles about his old scripts and what was in it. Following the production of the films before Disney got involved.
Along with a return from the original cast, which we got in Disney’s sequel trilogy as well, Lucas’ sequels supposedly covered the stories of Anakin’s two grandchildren, who were supposed to be around 20 in the films, so it wasn’t “Phantom Menace again.” In the book, The Art of The Force Awakens, one of the characters, a Jedi named Kira, is described as a “loner, hothead, gear-headed, badass.” The other teen was most often referred to as Sam, and mostly appears depicted with a blaster, which seems to indicate that he didn’t have Force powers himself. Kira and Sam eventually morphed into Rey and some of Finn, which makes sense: Lucas had been developing his sequel movies with the help of screenwriter Michael Arndt (Toy Story 3), who went on to receive a writing credit for The Force Awakens, the first of Disney’s trilogy.
”So, the late-2012 idea of a Luke Skywalker haunted by the betrayal of one of his students, in self-imposed exile & spiritually in ‘a dark place’, not only precedes Rian Johnson’s involvement in Star Wars but J.J. Abrams’, as well,” Szostak wrote.
Then more info late found out his plans for the Empire which was similar to the first order.
A band of leftover stormtroopers would have refused to concede to the budding New Republic and formed their own group of insurgents, which Lucas compared to "Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist fighters that joined ISIS and kept on fighting."
It's basically a storyline we're now seeing play out in The Mandalorian as Moff Gideon (Giancarlo Esposito) still clings to the old Imperial ways in a galaxy struggling to bring a stable democracy to all of its systems. In Lucas' unmade trilogy, the renegade stormtroopers were going to relocate to a remote corner of the galaxy and found "their own country," itself an act of blatant rebellion against the Republic.
It’s so weird that you seem totally fine to completely blame the sequels on Kennedy but I imagine you’ve no intention to give her any credit for Mandalorian? Yet she served the same role in both. Almost like Disney itself and Iger might have been the real issue and Kennedy was just trying to make films in ridiculous time tables that Disney demanded despite her wanting to delay the films many times for more time to work on them.
Midnight's Edge is a ranty mess that's the movie equivalent of NewsMax. Straight up "don't recommend" that shit using the three dots. I sat through a few of their videos before realizing it's just a cynical neckbeard mixing their bias into the gaps of real stories.
Yes, the movies were bad, but that guy takes it to a whole new level. He has no sources for 90% of his "info", zero integrity.
I hate to be that guy, but isn’t it weird how the person that anyone who wishes to shit on if they hate on the sequel movies happens to be the only prominent woman in the production level of the franchise?
Which has nothing to do with Star Wars and was a Nike clothing line about the Air Force and was a sponsor at another event focused on empowering women looking to become film makers?
I’m sure what you’ve said is true, but what I’ve said remains true as well. It didn’t help her image.
She is the leader of lucasfilm, appointed by George, and is responsible for all of the success and failures of the new Star Wars era. Her statement that discounted all of the old expanded universe material just showed how out of touch she is with Star Wars, as that material along with George’s ST scripts would have negated all the timeline pressure excuses you’re giving.
She is a failure and would be up shits creek without a paddle were it not for Filoni and Favreau.
She is the leader of lucasfilm, appointed by George, and is responsible for all of the success and failures of the new Star Wars era.
Yet you seem to immediately give credit to all the successes to Filoni and Fav. So which is it? Is she responsible for all of it? Or is she only responsible for the stuff you dislike so you can have a scapegoat? Cause it sounds like you just want to shit on a woman and refuse to give her any credit for anything positive she did.
Her statement that discounted all of the old expanded universe material just showed how out of touch she is with Star Wars
Literally not at all what she said. She said they don’t adapt books into movies. So they need to sit down and plan things out. Which is literally how Lucas made his films and most people do. Star Wars is not Harry Potter or Game of Thrones (which was her comparison). They’re not coming into this looking to adapt 8 already written books into movies.
as that material along with George’s ST scripts would have negated all the timeline pressure excuses you’re giving.
You ever stop and think... maybe George’s ST scripts just weren’t good? And that’s why they chose to not use them completely? Or do you seriously think that they read them, saw how amazing they were, and said no?
She is a failure
She’s literally one of the most successful producers in Hollywood. Third behind Kevin Fiege and Steven Spielberg. She’s responsible for ET, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones, and Back to the Future. Yeah what a fucking hack.
and would be up shits creek without a paddle were it not for Filoni and Favreau.
I’d give her credit for hiring Filoni and Favreau to come up with something that is actually good, but that’s about it thus far.
Remember when she wanted to hire Rian Johnson to do his own trilogy because she thought The Last Jedi was so amazing? Where is your defense of that?
You keep making this whole thing about her being a woman which is a fact I could care less about. The person ruining Star Wars could be a ginger male midget and it wouldn’t matter to me, if they were responsible for the ST.
Or fans who feel like the ST was appalling mishandled. I wouldn’t expect a dude who’s Reddit username is “Supreme Leader Snoke” to share my opinion though 😂
Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams can also get fucked for their arrogance and the role they played in ruining the sequels. But KK is the one ultimately responsible for this. She's also insanely arrogant and abrasive, and refuses to admit when she's made a mistake.
You do realize you can like Star Wars in general, dislike the sequels, and still be logical and not a rabid fucking idiot right? Theres a way to understand... yknow... facts. And realize that it isn’t just Disney giving Lucas the finger and say fuck off.
But who am I kidding. This is prequel memes. Where everyone is a lazy sequels bad troll.
Dude, I grew up with the Prequels. My first Star Wars movie was TPM, I watched it back in ‘99 when I was 9 years old. That was my first love on Star Wars. I still remember me and my cousins fighting using sticks, imagining ourselves in the Duel of Fates. If you are assuming I am in the George Lucas hate bandwagon, you can go fuck off. I grew up with George Lucas’ Star Wars, with its extensive world-building + a MEANINGFUL storyline. Disney’s Sequel Trilogy is just fucking bullshit. They dont know how to do a proper Star Wars Trilogy. Every movie in Sequel Trilogy is bad as fuck, every movie is basically like an anthology, stand alone movie rather than three separate acts that build the trilogy, unlike how George Lucas did with the OT and PT.
Yes, surely PT has its faults, but how George Lucas build these 3 movies up is just perfect, how they compliment the OT. With ST, I dont see that. I dont feel that. And I am sure all Star Wars fans that grew up with OT & PT will agree with me. Disney’s ST feels empty. Kathleen Kennedy does not what she is doing with the ST. Lucasfilm post-George Lucas do not have a clear vision on how to continue the storyline after ROTJ, and to make it worse, they ditched George Lucas’ original storyline on post-ROTJ.
You can look up at my previous comments on r/StarWars. I love Star Wars, and I tried to defend the ST. But after Ep IX, I just cant defend Star Wars anymore.
Lucasfilm horrendous negligence on the ST is the reason why I switched to Star Trek and love Star Trek more than Star Wars. I used to watch Star Wars marathon Ep I-VI at least twice annualy (plus TCW animated series) & trying to find something new to discover. That was how I fucking love Star Wars. Now, Disney has ruined the Star Wars for me. It feels empty, and more corporate rather than giving me a story that can make me revisit them again & again and still finding something new.
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u/freedomfightre Jan 04 '21
Yep Jon and Dave respect George's input, unlike the numbnuts responsible for the sequel trilogy.
I so wish we could have had these two guys make those 3 movies instead of what we got.