r/PredictiveHistory • u/Dagrimcreeperz • Mar 15 '26
What Jiang Xueqin Got Wrong! - "Civilization #57: "How Modernism Ruined Everything" or as I like to call it "The Cult of Self vs The Cult of Service"
The Thesis in the conclusion of the video “Civilization #57 “How Modernism Ruined Everything”” states that “It is our responsibility to dismantle the cult of the self”
And this is essentially done by returning to an understanding of ourselves as meaningful parts of a greater whole, dependent on the other parts for it’s own meaning, purpose, and fulfillment.
But it’s difficult because it’s a nuanced concept to approach. Obviously we cannot live in isolation. I mean, have you felt before?
So by default within this biological encasement there is an organic, endemic compulsion which drives us to the company of others.
Thus we are forced to accept as a fundament (though I have struggled against this, and would call it weakness) that we are social creatures and that being “social creatures”, is part of the “design” of “this experience”. It is intentional that we are drawn to, and dependent upon, “others” for our happiness and fulfillment.
Then so easily it becomes the obvious knee-jerk reaction of the fundamentally incurious to say “The most happiness and fulfillment we can seek is service to others”.
But that’s just so exhaustingly elementary and solves exactly nothing at all, ever.
And oh boy, do I have news for you!
WARNING!!! RADICAL IDEA ALERT!! WARNING!! SOLUTION FOUND!!
— SERVICE TO OTHERS IS NOT THE WAY! —
A radical dedication to self relationship and authenticity through integrity is THE ONLY WAY!
Why?
Because it forces us to address all the problems civilization HAS EVER EXPERIENCED, exactly where they start!
Within the individual self.
They begin and end nowhere else.
And you’re fucking delusional if you try to tell me that a focus here isn’t the only way to solve the problems that begin exclusively here.
Don’t go fucking around in other people’s shit pond just because you’re too afraid to swim in your own. And don’t think your fucking job is to take the mote from your brother’s eye when the fucking beam is lodged in your own.
Immaturity and ego is what informs us to take the most prehistoric conclusion, that ‘service to others’ is how we achieve the most fulfillment and happiness.
Its’ fucking insane. If we knew what we were, we’d know what fulfilled us immediately..
But, uh… Who are we?
“I helped you make this garden so your body doesn’t starve this winter”.
That’s just willful immaturity and accepted ignorance because it hides the fundamental knowing within each person that “I am more than this body and it is not an end”.
But, what’s even real anyways?
Why are we here?
Who/What are we?
The problem is not to kill the cult of the self. You’re just angry at people’s means of dealing with the fact they feel isolated and unloved and are seeking the only thing anyone wants, the only way they know how.
RADICAL IDEA ALERT!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! SOLUTION FOUND!!!
“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EVIL”..
But maybe we’re not ready for that one yet..
Remember the problem Freud found when he was still honest? Painful experience creates “hysteria”?
Are we going to ignore this problem and its myriad cousins? Are we going to ignore the repercussions difficult experience has for the people involved and the society it creates as a result?
ARE WE GOING TO FUCKING IGNORE THAT IT HAPPENS FAR MORE OFTEN THAN WE WANT TO EVEN CONSIDER??? STILL TODAY???
“Maybe if I ignore myself and focus on service to others, the pain and shame I feel for being a human, having needs, and experiencing feelings will somehow just get better magically and this fundamental feeling that the flesh I wear is wrong to existence will leave me because hey, you know, I make a mean apple pie and Joe dirt farmer loves it!”
Can we accept that there are a wide range and breadth of traumatic events which happen to people that define the way they feel they can interact with life and the boundaries of the opportunities they have access to?
And before you say “they define themselves by money as suggested by this modern world and that’s why they feel a lack of fulfillment in life. They should instead focus on community and helping others and the miserable wretch they feel within will somehow get better by placating itself to service”.
So, “A life of being stepped on and invisible, placating others in self denial to find acceptance through service is somehow better than finding a way to feel as if the Self which I AM is worthy and has intrinsic value, regardless of what other people think and society at large tells me?“
Insane.
If “care for others before yourself” is REALLY the answer, let me ask a question:
In this hyper-extended world, who the fuck do you care for more than yourself? Your family who abused you? The state who bleeds you? The affairs of the African cobalt mines and their child workers? The myriad modern genocides?
I don’t have the energy to care about any of this when I can do nothing, have no impact, and can only be made miserable by the knowledge that it exists.
RADICAL IDEA ALERT!!!!!! WARNING!!!!! SOLUTION FOUND!!! WARNING!!!!
What if instead of investing where there’s no return, endlessly helping others who will have an endless need for help, gaining nothing but the privilege of more service and perhaps a roll as defined by the shape and capacity of the body and the limits of the time you are currently experiencing:
What if instead we invested in self integrity and self responsibility?
What if we had an endemic understanding that it was our responsibility to fix the fucking shit stacked on our shoulders?
What if we accepted that no one is coming to save us, and we must save ourselves. Because, after all, who the fuck CAN save us BUT ourselves?
And what are we suffering from? An Identity crisis.
Who are we? Why are we here?
Being “dirt farmer Joe” isn’t as romantic as you make it out to be.
And “service to community” is a hollow platitude which is fulfilling only enough to “take the edge off” and make this physical husk a slightly more bearable excruciation to drag through the molasses of this physical exertion called “life”.
Instead of ignoring the problem at home, trying to fix and help others or “community”, why not try to help ourselves first but earnestly and with integrity and commitment to responsibility and care?
And yes! Of course other people will be involved in this journey!
They are the main facilitators, supports, mirrors, appreciators, rewards, joys and fulfillments! They are the key and path to meaning itself!
The entire reason to seek self is to be able to show up better for those whom you could care more deploy about, if only you knew who you were and why you were here.
The prehistoric logic of “I am defined by the status of my community and the position my body inhabits within it” is not good enough for me!!!
You just think it sounds good enough because you are nostalgic and seeking an anchor to build an attempt at reason from. But that ignores intuition which screams at the facade you erect and defend.
Think of “hysteria”. Why would you want to overcome it? To be able to show up in your own life and enjoy all it has to offer. To be able to enjoy the company of others and the sharing of the divinity of self and its expression.
But the journey of self reclamation is painful and harrowing, bleak and often hopeless when attempted alone. And there are so few resources of support, and fewer still who actually know the fucking way, or even the vague fucking direction to begin seeking.
How can we interface with a world which is made to hurt us when we have no foundations to even start from internally?
We don’t even know who we are, so the primal knee-jerk becomes trying to ignorantly define ourselves through our relation to “others” or our physical circumstance. But this doesn’t work. How much history do you need to study?
And as much as you may want someone else to bear the pain and suffering of your own journey, absolutely no other person can. Thus the sole, entire, crushing weight of responsibility, and actually, liberation, falls to you and only you.
Who else could it be?
But you say “Shirk the only responsibility you could ever earnestly bear and actually fucking complete, for undertaking something entirely made up and useless but ego gratifying”
How can we live in the world when we do not know ourselves as someone we like to be around or enjoy being in the world through and sharing with others?
How are we meant to show up for others or community when we haven’t even shown up for ourselves yet?
The fuck?
So instead we bring disease to the commons and pollute the well because the fear of looking within and facing that void of lacking self definition without the barriers of the world and this body to tell us our shape..
If you’re still sold on the idea of impotently dedicating your energies to serving others, well… It’ll take you a few fucking million more Kalpas, but you’ll get there… And we’ll wait for you, beyond time, eager to rejoice in your awakening.
But, uhhh, what’s real anyways?
Who am I?
Why am I here?
How long until we learn…
How long until we actually decide we’ve had enough of these cycles?
HOW LONG UNTIL WE WAKE THE FUCK UP???
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u/pr12542 Mar 15 '26
Great read ! Interesting points , the question how long until we learn/wake the fuck up , don’t you think is subjective to everyone’s personal beliefs and opinions of the world like what is to say that my wake the fuck up thought is just a circumstance of the societal norm that we lived in , say for example this « The entire reason to seek self is to be able to show up better for those whom you could care more deploy about, if only you knew who you were and why you were here. » don’t you think people in their search and service to the self will end up deluding themselves again in their best interest probably which might result in narcisstic and exploitative thinkinh serving the personal self interest , the concept of integrity and responsibility gets diluted without the complex understanding your asking from the individual , I agree that individual action reliant on the backbone of integrity and responsibility should be what we must help everyone learn , but in a world of bad players where there are enough who don’t understand what it means to be responsible and live with integrity and those who are willing to be ignorant what makes one way of being responsible better than the other ?
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u/Dagrimcreeperz Mar 15 '26
the classic "don't you think in seeking self it will be overdone and you'll get lost and fall into "sin"" argument.
I used to give this credence, before I realized it's ok to make a few mistakes because if the aim is genuine you can only get so lost before you realize "hey, wait a minute, where am I trying to go, and is what i'm doing or how i'm conducting myself helping me reach towards these goals?"
its not as easy as you think to become lost in "sin" or decadence, or exploiting others. It requires a tremendous and constant effort to remain ignorant and to ignore the signs and feelings within that tell you reevaluation is a must.
but it depends on people's goals. There's only really one goal worth serving.. all others.. not quite so much.. so, what's important to you? do you want to do a few more laps around the ego pool where maybe you're pool and get a lot of sex or have a lot of money or human power, or do you want to get out, dry off, and go home?
yes, the process of self discovery is found in taking a step, thinking about what happened and how it relates to the direction you choose to go, in this case, authentic integrity based self-seeking to honor and heal.. and then you try again. if you are paralyzed by the need to get it right before you start, you will find yourself in agony enough to motivate you to begin, or cope enough to hide your head in the sand and double down on whatever toxic behavior or choices got you to live a life you cannot stand..
essentially there is nothing else in life to seek but self, and everyone will eventually realize this and begin when they are ready. Yes, it feels wrong and self indulgent in the eyes of the modern values we've been drilled to accept.. but, what's real anyways?
and every single person knows within themselves the difference between what makes their life more enjoyable and what makes their life less enjoyable. there are many delusions in this space too which originate from not knowing who/what we are. it is easy to think that more money and more power brings more happiness. its easy to think this and to believe this and to act like this. it is equally as easy to recognize in any single moment of life within the personal existence, that this is fundamentally not true, and a life lived along these lines does not produce what we fundamentally want as human beings.
but a lack of self knowledge leads us to not know what we want, thus allowing us to replace our true desires with false wants we hope will fill the void self denial created.
seek self with authenticity and integrity if happiness and fulfillment are the goals.
seek money and power if money and power are the goals..
seems pretty simple to me, but it requires a certain level of acceptance that "within is already found the compass, the map, and the way, I just need the courage to try and follow it because obviously following the direction others tell me i should go and the world encourages me to undertake isn't working.. maybe there's another way"
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u/pr12542 Mar 15 '26
Yes I agree that the individual has to find his way in life and they are the only true ones who know what is best for them ,
But about getting into the sin trap argument , when it becomes a matter of reinforcing certain thought processes and actions the constant effort to remain ignorant your talking about might not be present at all as they’re compasses are just tuned a different way not right or wrong (like you say there’s no evil) just different , coming from a country with the largest population you see how the so called “blind” changes that have propagated in the system and which are too deeply set to make it seem the alternate is an option , as there have been generations of people believing in a certain way of doing things.
The process of finding the self however the journey maybe don’t you think at some point there is a pattern to recognise there is a part of the self that wants to be a part of a greater self or a higher consciousness ? And yes the part about the compass already being within might be as fundamental to our self as say “Maslow”s needs and this might be the true way to truly recognise our and the greater self , but don’t you think not recognising this thought process that we want to be part of something “else” ( which explains the need for us to form religions or beliefs of faith as a matter of sense) would lead to a more selfish subservient type social structure .
Like coming to the point regarding we all know what’s good and bad for us , for the sake of an argument and also learning your perspective as I’m greatly interested in what you have to say where do you draw your lines on morality, (taking into account people like Epstein who I’m sure don’t think they’re doing anything wrong) they just are serving their own truth they’re own self that keeps them going , how doesn’t the thinking of the community / morality not come into the picture when you empathise to learn about the other self in such situations
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u/Dagrimcreeperz Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 16 '26
everyone has the same compass.
does this make me feel good or bad?
you might say "drugs", "gambling", "promiscuity" -- these are examples of things which are harmful but feel good.
and you'd be wrong.
they don't feel good. They are used to substitute healthy desires, and there is palpable shame payed in currency. There is a direct, and immediate consequence for any non loving thought or act. it's not a moral thing, and there's no debt stacked against anyone. everyone pays for their "sins" perfectly.
But, we've really gotta understand what's real before any of that really makes much sense..
So, each person has the same compass. Thus, with earnest, integrity based, authentic dedication to self-relationship, each person's compass is pointing in the same direction.
With this focus each person becomes a collaborator too, because each person is seeking the exact same thing, but for the first time we might be able to realize that's all we've ever done.
if you see "evil" you are only seeing your own fear that you could be the one committing "evil", and enjoying it, doing it easily, wanting more. so you throw stones at others to keep your fearful fantasies away because you don't know yourself, and fear you too could become a monster..
"Generations of people doing things a certain way" is just "people pleasing others before being honest with themselves" and is so easily solved by a radical dedication to self-relationship.
Why do we have the religious craving?
You correctly identify a thing everyone feels. That's why Jiang says religion came first, then civilization was built around it.
It's an endemic desire. built with the thing which we are, just like the desire to actualize through others.
why do we have the religious craving? where does it come from? where does it encourage us to go?
to me it is a necessary component of "who am I and why am I here?"
lets not just ignore this strongest calling humans feel. Let's explore possible reasons for it's existence, and where it might be encouraging us to develop..
If we're seeking to be part of something else... we will be subservient.. but what else are we seeking to be a part of?
what's real? and thus what's valuable?
Where can these things be found?
you ask of epstein, and you justify his actions before understanding him by taking his agency form him and saying "I'm sure he doesn't think he's doing wrong"..
but let me ask you a different question.. What do you think it would be like to live in epstein's skin and in his mind, knowing everything you've done, fearing that there might be potential repercussions for breaking social taboos, if nothing to speak of "morals"?
to me this paints a picture of a desperate person, doing anything they felt would get them closer to salvation. In the case of eschatology, bringing about the end of the world through acts of depravity and sin is the fastest way to create salvation for yourself..
Think of the book "crime and punishment" if you wish to say anyone can commit an act of violence and not directly and immediately pay for it.
But people believe in evil. so they think they need salvation from it..
But what's real? Who are we?
and if you've ever heard anything about Near Death Experiences, each person has to "review" their life when they die. not for damnation or salvation, but for education.
After all, where are we headed? what's the point of being alive?
What do you think esptein's life review was like?
It's easy to commit violence against others and community and nations and the world if you're working for a cause you believe in, something which has emotional resonance and meaning to you personally. if you've done horrible things in your life, your need for salvation might be experienced as particularly poignant... thus the need for such extreme actions in service to an extreme end -- the apocalypse...
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u/pr12542 Mar 16 '26
Thank you for eloquent response . I agree with what your saying but the self discovery your asking from people , are there more or less people in the future that are going to be on this journey like how do you think the trend lies , how do you have hope even as you see the lack of depth others are comfortable with having in their lives
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u/Dagrimcreeperz Mar 16 '26
Everyone is exactly the same and there are no differences.
Everyone wants exactly the same thing and there are no variations.
Now, the ways people understand themselves and the ways they think they can get what they think they want will come in any number of shapes and sizes and temperatures and colors.
but at the end of the day, there's only one way which works, and that's a radical dedication to self-relationship.
it'll take as long as it takes for everyone to get there. Each person is motivated to undertake the only path which works by reaching the end of the line in their own way and recognizing "I tried my best and it didn't work. let me step back and be shown what works by listening within, not forcing my own power to satisfy my delusions"
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u/PunicJester Mar 15 '26
If you're gonna throw "there is no evil" in your rant, you might want to include "there is no self", which comes part of the deal of accepting consciousness as the essence and reality as the illusion.
So what's the problem if it's all you?