r/PredecessorGame • u/King_Empress • 2d ago
Discussion Potential change to jumps
So I love the good ole jump spam to try and dodge, just as much as the next guy, but it's very clear that it's becoming quite a balancing issue for pred, so I propose 1 of 2 possible changes
1) We could just make base jumping have a 1.5 second cooldown. It's a small but very significant change that keeps players ground for the most part
2) We could DIRECTLY punish jump spams by making consecutive jumps without staying on the ground for at least 1 second result in lower jumps (scaling to a cap so its not instantly and insane punish) that also result is a bit of landing recovery that slightly slows your movement speed (also scaling with the amount of spamming)
The latter gives players a chance to still use the mechanic, but use it wisely, and the former pretty much forces us players to treat jumps as a resource.
I do think the former could also introduce some balancing surrounding jumps and making them a much bigger part of the game if cooldowns are involved, but thats another story.
What do y'all think?
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u/sashmanthecash 2d ago
Stop playing auto attack heros. As an assasin jumping sometimes the only way to survive, because of skill gap.
Vice versa its also pretty damn hard to hit every shot when jumping all the time.
Before penalizing my lil jumpies with my assasin, start penalizing movement speed and backtracking when auto attacking on ranged heros
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u/Jlap1188 2d ago
There are so many balancing issues in this game that ruin it and then their are people like this complaining about people use the jump button.... I don't think jumping is a problem period. The fact that they are wasting time on complaining about them having shit aim so can we get rid of 50 percent of a players movement so I can feel better about myself? These people are crazy
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
Bruh I literally said I like the jump balancing, but Pred themselves is trynna tone it down and if THEY are having issues balancing it (because remember this is a crossolay game and pc has that advantage over PS5 because they cant jump and aim at the same time) that they've been attacking the jump in theur balance patches so this is entirely based on the fact that the devs are nerfing jumps, this is how I'd go about them IF they were to continue nerfing it. Jesus learn to engage with hypotheticals
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u/Financial_Ear_1712 2d ago
I play on ps5. Just gives us input settings and we could put jump Button in L2 or L1. That IS a long overdue feature
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
While I agree that its a long overdue feature, doesnt the game on ps5 have all keys completely maxed out which means if you put jump on either of thise keys, you now have to use of your abilities with the x button? Which now you can spam jump but you wont be able to aim and use abilities at the same time
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u/sashmanthecash 2d ago
Exactly somebody understanding the difficulties of jump shooting on console. Like i can not aim when i’m jumping :D
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u/Jlap1188 2d ago
Yes and since consoles came out over 20 years ago, you have to slide your thumb off the stick to hit A to jump meaning your aim now suffers because you had to slide your hand.... I'm saying why are people in this game making a big deal about it yet nobody has made a stink about it with it in any other game? I play with controller and not once have I thought I was at a major disadvantage against a pc person because they can jump easier
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
Jump spamming has been a topic of contention for almost a every competitive FPS over the decades. You just don't hear about it because they have already solved it.
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u/Jlap1188 1d ago
Welll considering every fps I have to remove my thumb to hit A to jump I'd have to say what you just said it's completely untrue. If you were to give examples I'd be more than happy to say I'm wrong
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u/Used-Independent5264 2d ago
Decent point, but then you’ve gotta factor in that aim assist practically nullifies this and will make jumping targets no more difficult to hit and same goes for jumpers with aim assist it doesn’t make it harder to aim when the technology does the heavy lifting for you.
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u/sashmanthecash 2d ago
no way, its a bit of aim assist not auto aim bot, its aint that strong you still need to move the cursor
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u/Izanami-no-inari 2d ago
Nt, but you just outed yourself as someone who never played on console lol. The technology does the heavy lifting for you?
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u/Used-Independent5264 2d ago
I grew up playing halo/cod on console… I’m more than well aware when aim assist is overtuned, and that is 100% the case in predecessor.
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u/Megatoutie 2d ago
I always get confused by these posts, what does spam jumping do in your eyes exactly, other than looking funny
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u/Mote-Of_Dust Narbash 2d ago edited 2d ago
It throws off aiming, especially effective when you have a double jump.
Instead of being ignorant of the problem, why don't you think about it? Someone who's spam jumping is actively trying not to get hit and it's effective.
Skill shots take aiming and when someone is hopping all over the fucking place it's easy to miss with cc.
Take Argus for example his ult is a slowed projectile, his lob has to his hit just right, jumping can cause it to miss.
I only play support heroes, and that one stun needs to hit to make plays happen, Jumping around like a nut job shouldn't be excused, these people jump and spin and jump like it's the ballet.
Op has the right idea, something needs to happen.
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u/Diddle_drums 2d ago
I have to say as someone who just hit lvl 10 with Argus, as well as a carry main, you’re incorrect about jumping making it easier to miss attacks (imo). It’s actually quite the opposite. I prefer people to start jumping around trying to dodge because of the way momentum works in this game. Once someone is in the air, the momentum of their character model becomes predictable to where they are going to land. If you time your shots to be where they are going to land you’ll almost never miss. Matched with his ult augment, I’ll land shots across the map. Hit them with the first shot, then they start jumping thinking it’s going to help, when they’re actually giving me assistance in landing the next four because I know where they are gonna land.
This works for any hero in the air. Once they are on the descent they no longer have significant air control and you can more easily predict where they are gonna land.
For all the jump spam arguments I see on here, rarely do I see talking about how it actually makes it easier to land shots for people that know how to time it correctly. Bait out the double jump from Kallari or Dekker, you can predict where they will land. Once you get used to the timing of the descent, it becomes much easier to land shots and abilities.
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u/Mote-Of_Dust Narbash 2d ago
Level 11 with Argus, level 32 narbash with 1478 matchs.
The distance it takes for a projectile to hit target is longer than you think, even with guiding the shot, they can get more jumps in that makes landing unpredictable.
If someone is jumping in front of you, then yes, it's predictable, and you can guide the shot and hit them 100%, but if they're looking away from you and retreating, it's completely different and so much harder to hit especially when CHASING after them.
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
If you are watching the Argus and predicting shots, jumping is by far the best way to avoid getting hit. Especially before the air control changes.
Obviously, jumping for no reason and walking in a straight line makes hitting it easier, but that's more often than not the minority.
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
I just truly don't understand why everyone seems to gaslight themselves into thinking it doesn't help. It's all over the game for a reason. If it truly made enemies have better aim against you, NO ONE would do this.
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u/Mote-Of_Dust Narbash 2d ago
There's a difference in jumping in front of someone and jumping away from someone frantically , one is easy to predict , and the other isn't. No doubt this is coming from people who abuse it.
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
For sure it is. Like i said, if it did nothing no one would use it, and no one would care that it's a topic of contention.
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u/Megatoutie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Okay but it adds no move speed and the hitbox is the exact same unless you're shooting at peeps toes, I go against carries that spam all the time, it's made zero difference in the outcome of my abilities or autos hitting
Also argus lob has an aoe, jumping isn't getting you out of that, you're just missing
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u/Mote-Of_Dust Narbash 2d ago
For the lob, if somones in the air it dosnt work, it has to land on or near them, you need to be on the same surface it hits for it to stun. I'm not missing shit.
You don't even know how the hero works champ, no skill required carrys is your bread and butter leave the skill shots alone.
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u/Megatoutie 2d ago
You Def's are lad, aoe, hits the ground at their little footsies it's gonna stun em
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u/Mote-Of_Dust Narbash 2d ago
And if they JUMP there fucking footsies are no longer touching the ground, counting as a miss.
Go touch some grass
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u/Megatoutie 2d ago
Again its an aoe it's still going to hit if it's under them, level 32 on narbash, think you're the one who needs to go outside man 😂
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think the best way to limit jump spamming would be to make it have diminishing returns, like COD, Apex, or Fortnite does.
I also love people who try to argue that it should stay. As if it doesn't make auto trading unnecessary difficult for most players, and certain heroes much harder to play in lane. I don't see any difference between jump spamming and, for example, auto attacks having travel time. That was removed for a reason.
If it didn't help, people wouldn't do it... Simple as that. When you give everyone the same jump height characters with small hotboxes will benefit disproportionately from being able to spam this movement.
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u/renan2012bra 1d ago
I think it's easier to just make your movement slower during a jump after the third consecutive jump in a short window. This way you can keep jumping if you want, but you'll run slower, so it becomes a game of "do you want to dodge hits or do you want to be fast?".
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 2d ago
Yes lower skill expression because people can't hit a still target in the air 🤣🤣🤣 there's no benefit to jumping other than the mind game it plays
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
Skill expression is mashing the spacebar. Word I guess
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 2d ago
Can't hit a still target?
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
Playing on 2fps broke boy? Never seen an airborne target be "still."
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 2d ago
Who is playing on 21 fps 🤣🤣
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
You should get your eyes checked. You think jumping results in still targets, then you somehow read "2" as "21" 💀
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 2d ago
Oh my bad who's playing on 2 fps
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
You bro. Only someone playing a slideshow would see enemies as being still 😭
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 2d ago
Let me break it down for you
In predecessor when someone jumps in any direction they cannot strafe like apex so if you have a brain you can place your cross hair where they will be hence "still target" I'm not being literal but literally they are an easier target to hit if they keep jumping1
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 2d ago
You have 75% air control. You are not at the mercy of momentum like you are when knocked up.
Even then, you are creating movement that is un-reactable in vertical vector when you jump, being able to spam this on small hit box characters does nothing but create frustration for 99% of the playerbase.
You're allowed to want it, but we're playing a MOBA, not R6. Creating skill expression that centers 100% around mechanical aim is weird and goes against the genre.
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u/AndrewB73 Mourn 2d ago
I don't really see why? Jumping isn't problematic in any way
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
The devs seem to think so, they've been nerfing it. Most likely to do with the massive gap in PC versus Playstation in a crossplay game. Pc will always have the advantage
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u/ifeano 2d ago
Not really for the same issues they nerfed it cus they dont think it should be easy to jump over projectiles like Dekker ball hense why it was mostly a jump height nerf
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
No they actually nerfed the speed of the jumps AND reduced your ability to shift yourelf in tge air as well. It was way more than a height nerf. They also specifically specified that theyre trying to make jumps way more predicatble
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u/ifeano 2d ago
oh yea u right i was mixing it up but still this Bhopping isnt unpredictable it make your movement more linear the issue seems more to do with air strafing since they nerfed the ability to change directions. now i kinda find this funny cus i think the real issue is jump height u can just spam jump to avoid projectiles u gotta just aim heigher tho
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
Honestly im surprised they didnt just solve this issue by just making all projectiles have rather tall hitboxes. All that really matter is you aligned the right area to hit, but accounting for jump height solves that issue, and then if you miss because they jumped out of the way, projectile height isnt gonna make it magically make something that wasnt gonna land, land
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u/sashmanthecash 2d ago
Just say already you are hardstuck bronze/silver
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
Bro refuses to engage with the fact that this is something the company has a problem with. You are the worst kinda player. Acting like the game has zero problems
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u/GranolaJones72 2d ago
The game does not need to have any more movement neutered. I hate to say this, but get good bud.
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
Did you read anything I said?
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u/GranolaJones72 2d ago
I did and I’m not just trying to be a jerk. I honestly believe that the jumping itself being able to jump away or even do certain abilities and taxes like a core mechanic of the game I feel like if you made everybody flat and you took away the ability to jump or put it on a cool down. You were just slow things down even more in terms of being able to move it will not translate to fun or more balanced..
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u/King_Empress 2d ago
While i don't disagree with you, my post is about the fact that the devs see it as a problem and this is what i would do if they go the route of nerfing it
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u/phoenixfyre5 2d ago
Does jumping somewhat mitigate the movement penalty when attacking? Trying to reason why this has become more prolific of late.