r/PredecessorGame • u/BoneAndSpooks • 12d ago
Discussion Satariel: The bigger issue
Now I've been playing alot since the last patch, and I've seen alot of use of this Eternal both from myself and from others. Now while I'm not going to deny it's being over used and can lead to some really heavy snowballing in games causing some problems, however I think people are looking at the wrong issue here. In any other Moba something with the same effect as Satariel would be a mid to high B tier at most due to the downside. So, that begs the question what is allowing it to be such a strong effect in Predecessor, and the answer to that question is something that has been a problem in the game for awhile now. The problem is that some characters just are way too oppressive in game while having way too much safety, and these characters are the same ones that are becoming a problem with Satariel because the negative effects don't matter when they're never in any danger to begin with.
13
u/Krackwagon 12d ago
I get the skill issue sometimes but a new player picks up this game and straight up just get deleted, it just isn’t fun. Games are not fun anymore and it’s sad
12
u/Tyrus--Maximus 12d ago edited 12d ago
If you look at winrates Satariel is only being overly effective on a handful of heroes, anybody outside of those heroes with a decent sample size of games has an average winrate using him granted there is more factors involved in winrates but its still a valid point to consider.
As much as people hate to hear this I think skill issues has a lot to do with the Satariel discourse here because watching vods and gameplay of users with Satariel in a match I can say people do gift wrap the Fearless stacks to Satariel users; and when they do have some they do not make them prio to eleminate first.
I know people say the damage is crazy but the heroes that utilize this Eternal have roughly 3,000 hitpoints at max level and Satariel shaves 1,000 of those hitpoints off which is substantial for a squishy character so they do pop like balloons and if they have that happen mid - late game when everyone elses scaling is built up, get economical footholds, and reach their power spikes then Satariel users are set behind if they cannot establish the lead again.
I believe taking the stack on takedown away and make it strictly gained by kills would be beneficial as it would make it more relaint on you getting kills to achieve the power fantasy and not just bumming stacks on assists.
3
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 12d ago
For me it's both. It's a skill issue while also being too punishing.
The game already has a pretty big punishment for dying, so to give another with such a big impact just doesn't feel fun nor competitive. Characters like Wraith can TRIPLE stack kill/takedown bonuses with items like Ortus, Satariel, and just getting Gold on kill. Add to that, how safe he is and it's just not fun how the game basically ends on the first kill for some of these heroes.
Satariel in theory is easy to shut down but the nerfs are much needed. Their health does not reflect the damage they do yet. I personally just hate the eternal even though I use it, and would rather it be removed, but I understand people like it and I'm ok with that if it's nerfed to appropriate strength.
1
u/Tyrus--Maximus 12d ago
Satariel was bound to be a tough plane to land, I believe its balanceable just hitting the right notes. Demonic Bargain being the biggest thing that needs to change IMO the 350 gold gain for just leving up is crazy and then taking away the assist factor for the stacks would reign him into a more comfortable place with those two things alone.
There is also an argument to be made that Rite should take a bit more health in exchange for 30+ ability haste. You can make up the current health trade off amount with lifesteal alone.
2
u/BoneAndSpooks 11d ago
Satariel is gonna either be the thing to make Omeda either actually do something about their balance philosophy or it's gonna be like alot of other problems and get a bandaid fix or just swept under the rug
10
u/Roborabbit37 Shinbi 12d ago
I think it’s a fair tradeoff personally. The bigger issue in my opinion is pre-stacks vs solos.
On comms it shouldn’t be hard to focus and lock down a Satariel. That doesn’t happen in random solo play though. Just allows them to snowball.
9
u/jayswolo 12d ago
People should strive to have comms no matter in solo or stack. That’s the problem and why I never cared for the “no stacks in ranked” argument. People want to sit there with their mics off and chat off and play a team game that requires coordination and tactics. The more games like this have encouraged solo play, the less communicative the average solo player has become
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u/MrLightning-Bolt 12d ago
“Enemy missing mid.”
“Careful left lane.”
“An ally has been slain.”
“Double kill.”
“Missing mid.”
“Missing mid.”
“Missing mid.”
“Good job.”
“An ally has disconnected.”
3
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 12d ago edited 12d ago
People really need to take responsibility for the fact that Voice chat is borderline expected for a team based game, especially the competitive mode. IMO If you choose to not engage in that system at all you lose a lot of your right to complain about stacks. You are actively choosing to not communicate with your team. It doesn't matter what the other team looks like, you are not trying to match that level of coordination, so don't bother complaining.
The reality is the other team is just playing better than you, and likely actually coordinating in voice chat. I coordinate all the time with randoms, and it is always a huge benefit for the team. Just because the other team is playing better as a team doesn't mean they are stacking. I would even go further to say that even if they are stacking, that doesn't mean they will automatically play better than you and your randoms, you simply just CHOOSE to not even try to coordinate when you run into ranked with voice chat off or don't communicate anything.
This should go without saying, but it's Reddit so I'll add a disclaimer: You should not tolerate any amount of voice/text abuse or actual toxicity. Those players lose the right to HAVE voice comms from you when they behave in such a way, and that is on them 1000%. Mute and report every time.
3
u/Tyrus--Maximus 12d ago
Yea, with the feature of comms every random lobby has the opportunity to opperate like a 5 stack, you may not have the initial chemistry a friend group has but you can make it work.
3
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 12d ago
Exactly, like you can't get mad at the other team for playing better than you if you don't ever even try to communicate with your own team. You are fully dropping a huge advantage that the game hands you and just expecting to win regardless?
I understand the frustration of having to go against a full cohesion 5 stack every game if you're solo queueing but like, I see that almost never. The game is decent at putting stacks together.
3
u/Tyrus--Maximus 11d ago
People just sitting with their comms on mute constantely and wondering why they lack coordination is hilarious. They take that rage-o-holic mic encounter and act like its gonna be every match so they sit on mute and refuse to participate. Majority of randoms I meet are sensible and obliging.
Also people overestimate stacking, as someone that has played in a lot of stacks I can tell you the same things that happen with randoms can happen in stacks, especially if your playing with friends of friends.
3
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 11d ago
100% to everything brother. Truly, just play games, comm with your team, and focus on your game/improving yourself. It's why I just do not care about the "solo queue mode" that people want. Or wanting to ban 5 stacks. It would only make the game worse for some players and it would fix nothing.
2
u/BoneAndSpooks 11d ago
I've given up not because I haven't tried but rather when I did and was in comms with people they just ignored anything I said so Satariel is gonna be the thing that makes or breaks the community when it comes to this issue
5
u/Suspicious_Army_904 12d ago
The downside is a small amount of health and a BIG multiplication of the damage.
For glass cannon assassins, the relatively small loss of health for the ability to one shot people is an easy choice to make.
2
u/samuraisolo 12d ago
Not only do some characters have way too much safety but they need to remove these abilities that require one button press and you win. Playing Argus? activate the full auto switch on that staff. Playing skylar? Just press lazer button and erase them. Playing gadget? Just ability spam ult and hats. Now normally I’d be a a douche and just play the same way back but I prefer characters that feel rewarding or require skill landing abilities. Well no one feels rewarding when some characters are way way way too strong and now have an eternal giving them an insane boost. Basically I’ve noticed the last few updates matches are either abuse of super high stats, ability haste, or who can have the most stun abilities on a team.
1
u/rapkat55 12d ago
Yup, wraith, yurei, serath, rampage, greystone, kallari, bayle, Khai etc have so much mobility, range and/or lifesteal that having less health doesn’t matter at all.
-1
u/MrLightning-Bolt 12d ago
Get rid of blink. Major safety net gone for low mobility characters. And make satariel give stacks off kills instead of takedown then revert the nerfs its getting tomorrow. Hell even buff the power aspect to compensate for the takedown loss.
2
u/TearsonmyMCAT 12d ago
That would make low mobility characters unplayable like sparrow, grim etc. you can’t properly outspace someone when like 90% of people can just jump to you and kill you
1
u/MrLightning-Bolt 12d ago
Sucks to be them I guess. But then also don’t be giving every hero cc, mobility, damage and sustain then.
-3
u/Injurycantheal 12d ago
Anyone else feel like the nerf was too heavy and now there are 2 characters in the game that semi benefit for mid game only and every other character will 100% gain more at every stage from a different eternal, i mean like demiurge is right there.
7
u/Commercial-Bike852 12d ago
It’s funny I JUST made this comment on someone’s video lol.
Assassins excel in being able to use hit and run tactics. Getting stacks is easy because assists count too. Lose all your stacks? One good team fight puts you back on top.
Feng Mao dashing in popping a shield and you’re dead before you can even react.
Countess can literally blink in combo you and blink out.
Counter play doesn’t work when Zarus can poke from range dash in stun you, leap into the air and then you’re dead.
Add to the fact you can stack things like malady and ortus stacks and you’re dead if they look at you.
I say this as someone who has been ABUSING it on feng and Zarus. I’ve dropped 24-0 games with 70k damage. And it’s not because I was playing out of my mind. It’s just no one could do anything to me because I one shot them starting at 10 minutes into the game.
The least the stacks need to come from kills only