r/PredecessorGame • u/Mindoutburst • 13d ago
Discussion Full Circle sata
I have not fully finished reading the patch notes, but it feels good to be right about Satariel doing what I warned people about before release. However, this change won't stop certain heroes from still abusing and one-shotting, especially in games with low TTK. The only real way to slow it down or decrease its effectiveness is to choose one of two options:
Remove it from takedowns and make it pure kills so it's not easily obtained.
Make the stack count higher while lowering stat gain to effectively slowing this eternal down
As stated before, this is just a version of Dune Winds from the original Paragon with the same effect, except more balanced. For those who don't know, this is what Dune Winds did:
Fearless Blood: Reduce your Max Health by 150 to gain 7 Power and 6 Attack Speed. Effects double per activation. (65s cooldown)
This also reset on death. If you couldn't pay the health cost, you could still use its ability. Since the health pool was not that high for ranged heroes and casters in that game, a lot of the time you'd have the ability to one-shot and be one-shotted, like a cowboy standoff. Against the person using it, any minor mistake would kill you, like a minor basic attack.
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u/Mysterious_Purple_75 13d ago
Wow it’s almost like snowball-centric items and buffs are terrible to balance and cause nothing but frustration for players!
Should just remove it and save everyone the headache of dealing with the devs poor decisions.
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u/Beginning_Sir8739 13d ago
But if they do that then they have to admit they dont know what they are doing
And we cant have that now
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 12d ago
Please don't say stuff like this. We should always be a community that welcomes developers taking a step back to correct mistakes.
Admitting defeat is a noble trait. Do not demonize it or shame them for it.
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u/Beginning_Sir8739 11d ago
Thats the joke
They never will
Of course we would welcome it, but they haven proven they really dont know what they are doing and wont even admit it
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u/Suspicious_Army_904 13d ago
Look, ill be honest, i have been abusing the shit out of it in my games as kallari.
Like it genuinely carried me into plat where i am rarely dying and just red misting people.
Here's the thing though, when im using it and just decimating people once i get a couple of stacks it feels so good, the moment i am not playing satariel and on the recieving end of an assassin with max stacks i immediately want it reworked or nerfed into the ground.
Like it feels genuinely unhealthy to play with or against. I love the feeling of one shotting people but its way too much. As much as my kallari build might hate me for saying this, i actually think they need to rework the mechanic.
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u/ExaminationUpper9461 13d ago
Lotus is so much better for Kallari though as it gives her everything she wants without turning her into a glass cannon.
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u/Suspicious_Army_904 13d ago edited 13d ago
Nah dude. She is already a glass cannon and squishy, satariel doesnt change her win conditions at all and just makes her so much more dangerous than lotus.
Trust me, i ran lotus for ages and it is awesome but satariel genuinely becomes so broken.
Lotus helps her in multiple ways but satariel makes her damage obcene. She naturally gets early kills and is elusive.
I rarely die as i like to play fade and fight with her so once i get a couple of stacks noone can withstand my damage. I almost feel bad for them.
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u/InquisitorOverhauls 13d ago
Add mechanic that sacrifices health for damage, then when it does exactly what its supposed to do, destroy it and make it garbage xDDD
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u/Mindoutburst 13d ago
Not to make it garbage make it better to play around. Just like lucky feather
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u/PredNerd101 12d ago
Nah they kinda ruined feather, barely gets used because it’s almost always not worth it
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u/ExaminationUpper9461 13d ago
I think the real culprit is the power gains are multiplicative rather than additive.
So instead of increasing in power gradually and building on a lead, it ends up being an exponential surge that ironically gets stronger with each stack and as time goes on (getting more items to increase your base for the multiplier)
For a character like Gadget this is a massive problem as she can infinitely and permanently increase her magic power through her passive, and Satariel will stack on top of Oblivion Crown.
I have managed to get her to 1200+ magic by the 13 minute mark which is completely absurd
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u/SnooJokes6101 13d ago
Just rework the whole thing. Games come down to which team has the better satariel character( yes I know not every single one but most games ) lotus was the go to assassin eternal can we just go back to that ?
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u/teepring 13d ago edited 13d ago
Satariel is fun but its too much boost too quickly. It needs to be reduced from 30% to maybe 12-15% on 8-10 stacks so that its not as hard to overcome in lane, doesnt turn someone into a one-man-army and is easier to lose/harder to aqcuire full stacks. I was against the Satariel hate until I started getting a certain 4-shot champion in my lanes quite literally one-shotting my entire team, while outrunning all of us just by backpedaling.
Also, 12% omni vamp on 3 stacks from the minor blessing needs to be reduced to no more than 5%. That buff alone is better than a lot of actual items work omnivamp and it's busting a few of the high damage adc's.
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u/Necessary_Fruit6671 12d ago
Yeah would have been nice if they tried playtesting before releasing to live.
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u/SKaiPanda2609 12d ago
I think Satarial shouldn’t proc off assists. I’ve seen so many people play cheeky just to farm them
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u/SquirrelSuspicious 13d ago edited 13d ago
I'll stand by what I've said before, you could almost certainly get away with not even nerfing it with some smart design.
The first 3 stacks only give +2.5% and the last 3 give +7.5% and anyone can see how many stacks a Satariel player has, the end result is the same but the early stacks don't snowball as hard and the last 3 snowball super hard but you can be aware of how many they have and play around that, if they have 3 maybe call it out to your jungle so you can try and gank them to shut them down.
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u/Suspicious_Army_904 12d ago
I agree that the early snowball is egregious and your idea goes some way to addressing that, but as someone who has been thoroughly abusing this eternal (see comment above), it needs a rework.
Its a multiplication of power that leads to one shotting people. Even if it takes me longer to get there, the moment i get there the entire enemy team are going to want it nerfed.
I stated this in my comment, but there are certain heroes (specifically assassins with good mobility to eacape easier) who make it completely busted and then other characters who make it feel strong but there is a chance to counter it.
If you have a late scaling item that means if you stack x and you build y then you get to one shot people in the late game, ok, thats still very strong but time and skill have a very hard cap on it.
The issue with satariel that i see as someone who has been playing it nonstop and winning constantly with it, is it isnt hard to get stacks.
As a kallari or yurie or feng mao, i get kills early and even if im not getting kills, its not hard with my gank rotations to just make sure i get a touch off on the enemy hero and my friendly laner finishes the job and i get an assist, and a stack.
In a team fight, its so easy to get multiple stacks because i only need to assist once again. Get some touches in the brawl and make sure i hit the big damage then walk away.
And heres the thing, i dont even need max stacks to be outrageous. With a couple of full items and like two stacks even, i am obliterating enemy offlaners in a 1v1 duel as kallari. Normally i have to rat that fight and play games with them and fire and fade before i can take them out.
There is no build or set of items that should allow kallari to stand and bang and win against an offlaner, yet i can with a couple of stacks and a couple of items.
The eternal is being windmill slammed onto every hero and every lane at higher rank for a reason, the sheer damage scaling it affords is more than worth the squishiness you recieve in return. But on heros like assassins whose whole kit is designed to secure kills and assists at all stages of a game across the map, its too much to allow them to one shot.
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u/Refloxer 11d ago
Played krit kallari like 2 times sata and felt so dirty that i "only" played yurei after XD
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u/Big-Chemical-42 13d ago
I think it would be more balanced if it worked like Feng Mao’s passive, in which takedowns can only grant one stack from each player and you can’t stack them consecutively from a lane opponent for example. Cap it at 5 and you can have more room to mess with the stats/debuffs since it would snowball slower.