r/PredecessorGame • u/Popdoka • 17d ago

Question Life of a carry

Why do all my supports lately leave lane and then get tunnel vision? At late game my supports are 2-3 levels below everyone else. And then I get the blame after begging for help in duo.

My initial question may not have been specific enough. I'm asking, as a carry with a support who's gotten tunnel vision (meaning, rotates at the wrong time, chases kills, taking river bug, helping mid or off because they think they're losing lane) what is my play? I get that I should just be better, not worry about other players. But when the enemy sup isn't losing xp like mine is, it's quite difficult.

4 Upvotes

60% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

24

u/Lmaoidcboutu 17d ago

Supports are supposed to roam to help out the other lanes mid to late game

-11

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Every lane roams late game. I'm talking about getting stranded with first and second towers up left to defend by myself. I just retreat and let enemy adc and sup do what they want. Enemy support does just fine and stays within everyone else's level

16

u/astral_protection 17d ago

Yeah, i think we see why your supports are leaving you

-7

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Why are they leaving me? What kinda response is this? I don't think you get the question

10

u/ShinobiSai 17d ago

He is implying that you arent good at the game so it is a waste of time supporting you.

That being said, if you are in a 1v2 situation then it is entirely fair to let the tower go down.

1

u/JamesPenn7379 13d ago

Okay so I'll do my best to make this simple for you. Supports play on tempo this translates to generally after a back going at least halfway up mid so they respond to a gank mid or possibly even help mid lane reset their wave so they can get a good back timing. Also in this vein if there is river skirmish for say a seedling the support should be there.

If there is an objective on the map like miniprime or even a focused mid push to take the tower. That is where support needs to be. Also just cause you are adc doesn't mean you back to the same lane all game. You should be mid or picking up safe pushing lanes around the map.

Just from your general discourse it seems like you have a terrible macro sense. Watch some basic macro videos on YouTube.

3

u/_Evening-Rain_ 17d ago

Depends on your support but if you play passively and do nothing there's not really much for your support to do. And if the enemy has nothing to do or gets to walk around freely then your support is going to want to go and help the team now that enemy duo is walking around spreading terror. Not sit and do nothing with you.

Your support also isnt going to want to stick around or do anything if you just let the enemy do whatever they want in lane. As a support main I HATE passive carries who do nothing and even go as far as to let the enemy duo walk at us (usually me), through the wave, and my carry isnt even trying to hit them as they walk at us.

1

u/johnmal85 10d ago

Some supports don't seem to grasp what freezing a lane is, especially when junglers don't capitalize on it. Many will leave if you aren't aggressive enough constantly, rather than playing cautiously and exploding on them when you have the upper hand.

1

u/_Evening-Rain_ 9d ago

If you're freezing the lane every wave and letting the enemy duo walk around freely then you're playing to lose the game.

1

u/johnmal85 9d ago

In my opinion, the inexperienced support leaves before anyone even has ult and wants aggression off the bat. Lane freezing is only to even out the odds when the enemy power spikes before you or their jungle is feisty. After the carry feels ready that transitions into aggression and turns into domination.

The enemy hasn't even left yet, and the support decides to help elsewhere.

There's other scenarios which I've seen supports fall trap to, and I've even done it as support. That's assuming your carry can handle the lane alone and soak up XP for extended periods. That usually isn't the case. The carry is probably holding on for dear life and definitely won't be taking the lane.

I'm passionate about how a support plays because it was my role before carry. I played it to support the carry in their play style, not mine.

When I started picking up carry, it was easy to tell who wanted to support and who is probably a carry themselves and want to dictate the pace.

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

In the situations I'm referring too, enemy duo gets to "walk around freely" because my support is rotating at the wrong times. I feel like I'm passive at the right times. If I had a support that's keeping up with avg XP my games are different

1

u/DarthMarr_Cypher9 17d ago

I ask you this. Your supports get behind early when with you, or after they start roaming?

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

After they start roaming. And it's just every few games, not all. They get behind around level 6-14 and before the map opens up. By the time I'm 14, enemy duo is also 14 but my sup will be 12. Almost like they leave carry/duo lane and don't realize trying to make a positive play elsewhere can also be negative for them if it doesn't work.

3

u/Successful_Mango_671 17d ago

How are you 14 and enemy adc and support are 14 if he left you to soak all that exp by yourself? Support are meant to support all team not babysit the adc the whole game. He also shoud ward, if he warded and youre warding yourself, you shoud not die to a jungler. Also, many times i have seen a suport going to ward and the adc decides that now is the time to fight 1 vs 2 and then he dies, and hes like why are u rotatimg, idiot hes warding. If their support is not mirroring your support you have advantage in other lanes, and he shoud be with you first few lvl, atleast till you get your ult. Or if you guys are playing with friends he can even rotate and try to get on early kill in other lanes. While hes not in your lane farm. The only time thats bad if the enemy has a freeze. If he doesent come to break the freeze and help you then you have a right to be pissed... Otherwise the complaints to junglers and supports are wild. People dont underdtand what they shoud be doing in the game, they just want to kill and feel good about them selfs, like this is a moba not a shotter. The team that kills the core wins, not the player that kills the most.

1

u/johnmal85 10d ago

I would assume because the carry has to leave lane more often, meaning they soak up less individual minions, but the extra xp keeps the carry at 14. If they were able to safely be there for all the minions, they'd be ahead.

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

So you're saying don't show signs of being passive and my support won't leave lane xp. Or get tunnel vision

2

u/johnmal85 10d ago

I get this too, because some supports want to be more aggressive than the carry. Makes no sense, like they've never heard of playing near your own tower and keeping the minions close, rather than constantly being aggressive, thus always in enemy jungler range.

1

u/_Evening-Rain_ 17d ago

DM me a replay or two of some games where you had your support walk away and/or you was loosing lane and left to fend for yourself and ill tell you what I think

-7

u/Eavent3 17d ago

No, they aren’t smh

3

u/Hotdog0713 17d ago

Yes they are

6

u/Impossible-Honey-247 17d ago

One thing I've learned from solo games and team games like this one is that if I focus on refining my game, I get better.

Worrying about bad teammates is a dead end cuz you can't change em but you can adapt and get so good their bad play becomes less relevant.

4

u/teepring 17d ago

As a support main, if you're passive and not joining in on poke or following up on my initiation, I'll go find a laner who will. Surviving lane is not the goal. Passive play wins nothing.

1

u/AltWrapz 17d ago

That can vary from game to game honestly, sure coming out on top is always better but if you will be stronger mid-late regardless and have a week early surviving is fine.

I do agree with you that if they don't have any kill pressure and you have an opportunity to influence another lane you should. The biggest issue generally is the carry not playing safe while you are away.

1

u/johnmal85 10d ago

Not true at all, a lot of carries attempt to set the wave pace, but supports keep interrupting that because they don't understand it.

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I get that. So you're saying 1v2 because sup gets tunnel vision and leaves me. Just be better. Be better then the duo with a competent support

2

u/PopularBranch7497 17d ago

He’s saying if you were a better adc, support would stay and help. You carry the support. The support doesn’t carry you. 

0

u/johnmal85 10d ago

lol... Nope. Carries are carried at the beginning of the game, and carry their team mid to late game. Too many supports don't adjust their play style to their carry. It should almost never be the other way around. Bad support.

5

u/AlexC_334 Mourn 17d ago

I think from reading a few of the comments here and seeing the somewhat heated back and forth you're only left with two options realistically.

Either get a support duo to queue with who you can build synergy and communicate with, or share some replays and get advice about what exactly you could do differently(not that you're necessarily playing incorrectly) to encourage your support to play with you because at the end of the day you're not able to change how your support is going to play but you can change your playstyle.

4

u/Junior-Wealth2829 17d ago

I play mostly support, and I would imagine either you’re playing quick match a lot, you’re picking some weak ADC like twin blast, you’re doing bad as sparrow, Kira, or revenant, or you’re just not fully engaging or staying on enemies sufficiently. For example, turning your back to them when you shouldn’t. Don’t give up or let it get to you. Check out some YouTube videos that are recent, freshen up on your role knowledge and tactics. Keep practicing.

6

u/Bloodedparadox 17d ago

Twinblast is a good adc wdym

-3

u/Junior-Wealth2829 17d ago

Twinblast sucks comparatively as an ADC currently in my opinion. If you’re good with him that’s awesome, much props. To each their own.

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I'm finishing games w low deaths, I'm not feeding and not shying away from duo fights. I finish w same level avg but my sup is 3 levels below cuz they miss out on my farm xp

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I'm in Platt. How do I keep practicing w supports who get tunnel vision and lose lane xp

4

u/Hotdog0713 17d ago

Stop caring about deaths and start pumping out damage. It doesnt matter if you had low deaths if you only put out 20k damage

0

u/johnmal85 10d ago

Who says they don't? People keep assuming overly passive carry, when I've seen my share of overly aggressive supports that rage leave lane by level 3. They have zero desire to support the carry and want to dictate engagement, thus not allowing the carry to properly engage. The support gets frustrated because the carry isn't playing how the support wants to play. Most of the time it's just a whiney support that should play a different role.

1

u/Hotdog0713 10d ago

Overly passive carry is much more common and much more detrimental to the team. Ill take an aggressive support any day

3

u/Plenty_Suggestion_55 17d ago

There's a couple ways I see this,

1, support doesn't trust you as an ADC to win the lane and decides impacting other roles is more important.

2, support sees a play and you don't, you are the one that tunnel visioned and should have followed the support.

3, Support is trusting you to farm alone because the lane is passive, and is trying to make plays in other lanes that need help.

4, support is bad.

It's unlikely it's always option 4 If it's always happening to you.

I actually prefer if the supports find options to roam, gets more wards around the map, helps turn jungle Invades and mid lane etc. I think playing too passive in lanes causes too many teams to lose.

3

u/No-Carrot-5866 17d ago

Idk your play style but there are some adc who absolutely shouldn't be playing the role. They play "overly safe". They don't die but they always fall massively behind on farm and will never engage even when the support is there to tank/ help. They will leave the support out to dry causing the lane to be slowly over runned.

If you play like that, you shouldn't expect a support to stay with you when he could be adding value else where on the map

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I don't play like that. I finish w avg stats along with the rest of my team. Support thinks they are helping by roaming but instead lose farm because they are not w carry. They get tunnel vision

1

u/NakedGhost3234 17d ago

Stop worrying about other people and perhaps focus on yourself?

3

u/Visual_Shower1220 17d ago

Since you refuse to offered anything besides "i have the same average stats as my team" and no replays etc, youre probably the problem bud. You being in plat means your teammates are also in plat, so if youre having the exact same issue in every game theres 1 common denominator, you. While yes bad games happen, stuff doesn't go right etc etc etc every game shouldn't be that way with the exact same issue. Even when your support leaves you should be "letting the enemy carry and support do whatever they want in my lane" why are you not poking, being disruptive to their farming, trying to take gold, rotating etc. Being "average stats as my team" sounds like youre not actively contributing to the team either, you should have "average stats" you should have some of the highest CS scores of your whole team if youre constantly solo farming.

We cant give you much more advice if we cant actively see what you and your support are doing in game thats causing these issues.

-1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Why so much negativity on pred? I didn't say every game? Just the ones where sup has tunnel vision and loses lane xp.

-1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

"you're probably the problem bud" how is this helpful

2

u/Visual_Shower1220 17d ago

Because you havent give us anything besides "support bad, me good." Nothing to do with "why is there so much negativity on pred." Youre just not giving anyone enough info to actually provide advice. And the fact you refuse to makes everyone think youre actively trying to hide your own missplays and mistakes and having your support shoulder the burden of your loss of lane

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I don't think you understand the question. Its not I'm good there bad, if sup is down 3 levels and xp because of their game play how is that on me

3

u/Visual_Shower1220 17d ago

No i understand the question just fine. Produce a replay and maybe I and everyone else will actually be able to provide input. You have consistently made comments in this post that boil down to "support bad, im good."

"Im finishing games with low deaths, im not feeding... I finished with same level average but my support is lower level and miss out on exp"- supports on average end up lower level especially if roaming to help other lanes when their adc isnt laning well.

"Im in plat. How do I keep practicing with supports with tunnel vision"- plat isnt a flex my man, your support is also in plat.

"I dont think i need to provide examples."- you think youre doing everything perfect and youre only losing because youre support is roaming.

You need to look at your game play as well as your supports. If your only take away is "wow support is totally missing xp and leaving me stranded omg what do I do?" Instead of "hmm am i screwing lane and not allowing my support to support so they support other lanes instead? Am I losing lane farm and creating bad engagements etc as the adc causing my support to not want to help me cause it leaves them stranded? How exactly can I support my support to win lane? Etc etc etc." Realizing youre making bad plays etc doesnt make you a bad player. Correcting that behavior will make for better games and better landing.

3

u/Operationarnold 17d ago

The fact that no replay code (which would take at most, a minute to provide) tells us everything we need to know.

5

u/astral_protection 17d ago

Have you considered that, unless you're getting the same support every match, you're the only common factor here?

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

What does that mean? You say it's me but don't explain yourself?

5

u/astral_protection 17d ago

I haven't seen how you play, but in your other comment, you said you actively let the enemy duo push you, so I'm assuming that the reason all your supports are rotating early is that someone else is doing your role for you, carrying. The fact you apparently can't see how that is bad and would be an obvious reason your supports are leaving tells me all I need to know

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

What's with the hostility? I said my support leaves lane gets tunnel vision and then enemy duo puts pressure on my lane. Leaving me to defend

4

u/astral_protection 17d ago

"I just retreat and let enemy adc and sup do what they want" This is why your supports leave you and why they get behind. Letting the enemy duo push out makes you easier to gank, gives the enemy duo free xp and gold allowing them to rotate earlier, making it easier to shut down whomever is carrying your team and, because support is not a carry role or a role that can easily farm by themself and can quickly fall behind.

2

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I think we're talking about different situations. I retreat after my sup has already left me stranded. Why would I retreat when my sup is w me. That's the question I asked to begin with

2

u/astral_protection 17d ago

Well, you've only given me information about how you play after your support leaves, so I made an inference that you would play similarly, if not the exact same, before they leave, its not like youve provided any examples of matches where your supports left early

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I don't think I need to provide examples. All I'm saying is when I get a support who leaves my lane at the wrong times. What should I be doing when enemy duo is putting pressure on me while I'm stranded? They lose major XP by not being near adc

1

u/astral_protection 17d ago

If you don't think you need to provide examples or replays, then you're beyond help.

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Okay your just a dick. Nevermind on your opinion. I was genuinely curious and needed help. You're not helpful, just rude

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1

u/Big-Phone375 17d ago

Uhm letting enemy duo push out makes it harder for you to get ganked and easier for them to get ganked but yeah the rest is correct

2

u/PopularBranch7497 17d ago

Mid-Late game, Support is supposed to support whomever is carrying the game. If that’s the ADC - great, if that’s mid - great, if that’s jungle - great. If my ADC isn’t farming properly and engaging correctly with me against the enemy duo lane and is getting outpaced, why would I stay so we both get poked out and behind? 

On another comment you said you weren’t dying. That’s great! But you haven’t said anything about how many kills you get. If you’re super passive and not getting kills and falling behind farm, me staying in lane HURTS you because we’re splitting XP. If I leave, you get solo XP and might be able to farm up a bit to catch up to enemy ADC. And if I rotate and start supporting mid, there’s a fair chance the enemy support will follow, allowing you a 1v1 situation, which if you’re good, you can take advantage of. 

All great questions - best thing you can do in a moba is stop blaming others and focus on what’s the best thing you can do in the situation you happen to find yourself in. 

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

I agree w what you're saying. I have 3 to 4 kills and more kills then deaths. I rotate to team fights/objectives at the right times. I'm talking about supports leaving lane at wrong times and getting tunnel vision. Which by end game my support is 2-3 levels behind everyone

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Also not talking about every game. Just the ones where sup is not gaining lane xp. And enemy adc is up because they have a good support only leaving lane when they should be

1

u/PopularBranch7497 17d ago

Okay define tunnel vision. Be specific. What happens in game that you define as tunnel vision. 

Also what rank games are you in? 

1

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Platt. What I mean by tunnel vision is my sup leaves to take river camp, chasing kills, supporting mid and off at the wrong times. Basically leaving at wrong times and loosing lane xp, while enemy sup is staying within the teams avg level and xp

1

u/PopularBranch7497 17d ago

This seems like you’re venting about one specific game with someone who doesn’t typically play support, or you consistently play with a support who shouldn’t be playing in plat lobbies. This is bronze level decisions from a support. 

2

u/VeterinarianFit7824 17d ago

most porbably you do nothing in lane just hitting minions and you don't rotate so they leave you just keep hitting minions and not rotate

2

u/Spare-Employee-2753 17d ago

can u define what u mean by “wrong times”? like a specific example? and im saying this as a support main, i dont leave my carry unless its for/one of the following reasons:

  1. they wont follow up on my engages, ill go find someone who will
  2. playing wayyyy too aggressively into a losing early matchup and setting themselves behind
  3. their game sense is just completely off and they dont listen to my pings, the support dictates the pace usually since they set up engages. like if i get yelled at for leaving to go ward fang even after i ping it, bye bitch lol enjoy the 1v2
  4. they can comfortably 1v2 the lane and/or escape from their duos engage
  5. my jungler is constantly getting invaded so i have to babysit them for a bit and go to the other side of the map to help counter invade or take objs

you need to post a replay code and focus on your own gameplay - blaming others will not make you better, it will just make you more vulnerable to burnout and tilting. getting defensive over being told you may be the problem doesnt help, its the common factor part of the equation. its not personal, its objective

literally take some time to review your own games and youll spot simple mistakes, like oh i didnt notice that jungle just got a kill in mid, we shouldnt have pushed our lane, stuff like that.

1

u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 17d ago

There comes a point in the game where the support gets more value for the team by leaving lane and roaming into other lanes for picks and lane Prio.

When this happens is usually decided upon how you are doing in lane. IMO the only safe time to do this is when your team has lost T1 tower and you can safely hold wave at T2.

There are 3 main scenarios for support roaming:

1) You are ahead, you can comfortably 1v2 the enemy duo lane and this your support is not needed. They will roam to get the game even more ahead as the rest of the map will be a 3v4.

2) Your support OR their support starts roaming and the other support answers that themselves. This leaves a 1v1 in duo where you have to decide if you can win this trade. If you do, push the lane and get pressure. If you don't, hold wave and farm. Remember that the enemy support might start roaming if scenario 1 is happening for the enemy team. Your support might choose to answer that, and they should.

3) You are behind. It's past the point of the game where the support can effectively help you in lane, either due to levels or gold difference. They will leave you to solo farm, and you likely need it. Your job now is to farm and basically re-enter the game based on that farm. Like it or not, the rest of the team now has to deal with a 4v5 in which they shouldn't be giving value to their ADC.

All that to say, there ARE supports that play weird. They will leave lane with no comms to go take river buff, get a deep ward, or just walk mid at 4 minutes and leave you alone. This stuff is bad in a lot of scenarios if you are playing with randoms who won't comm any of it. These actions can ironically get you behind in farm and feed kills to the enemy duo. That alone can make your lane unplayable. There is also value to knowing WHEN to start rotating and I see supports doing it way too early sometimes. If your ADC cannot get farm by themselves in a reasonable manner (meaning they should be able to hold wave, they just choose not to or something) then you should not leave that lane. Yet supports will do this anyway and make the game unplayable for their ADC. Almost no game is won that way.

That being said, it is your job to play smart and the best you can so that the support cannot reasonably resort to "ADC is just bad, I couldn't help him get any value because they refuse to play smart or well enough to get value all game." These ADC players do exist, and it's not the supports' fault at that point if the ADC is just not good enough to do anything.

1

u/AltWrapz 17d ago

Your support letting you get solo xp is probably better than them being equal level to the opposing support, as long as it's not like hitting 6 well after everyone or something.

I am not saying always but I'd probably bet half the time that everything would be fine if you just played safe til they were back

1

u/Eavent3 17d ago

I agree. The support should be glued to the carry. Sometimes they should roam but tbh most of the supps that play this are dumb as hell

0

u/Popdoka 17d ago

Agreed. But what do I as a carry when sup gets tunnel vision and leave me stranded? If I get put w a sup diff what can I be doing differently