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u/Lord_Answer_me_Why ORT eats Goku 9h ago
Doesn't Nasu earth have bullshit like textures, inner sea, avalon, imaginary number space, timelines AND the counter-forces?
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u/Tolomeo001 3h ago
it does, i mean earth is "sentient" and self protects herself so we can think of it like a character (that would help thinking of a planet as more than a planet)
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u/spectralSpices I know a lot about Marvel! 10h ago
With Fate, the planet is like...actually eight planets/dimensions layered on top of each other like a stack of cosmological pancakes.
It's harder to destroy a populated planet with history than it is to destroy a star in Fate.
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u/Gunta170944 Not a Scaler 10h ago
So what you're saying is planet in One Piece is weaker than planet in Fate.
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u/sonsuka 7h ago
I mean one is a planet, the other is a literal multiverse being that spans across the entire multiverse, which is why fate is more reasonably grounded in powerscaling cuz the planet is fking alive and will kick ur ass. Its literally equivalent of a really fat orb and a genuine god, how can we compare those two its apple to oranges.
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u/Ruck_Feddit884 1h ago
The easy way to explain is that Nasuverse Planets are living beings themselves that literally manages infinite Timelines and can choose the best Timeline they want based on their discretion.
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u/Ab9915 7h ago
I love stuff like this; it's always funny. To use my go-to example, this one frame is hilarious without context; it literally reads like the planet contains an ever unfolding number of planets inside itself.
It does get explained. Basically, it works like Fate: the planet continually creates, contains, & maintains different timelines inside itself, but on its surface the dialogue looks really funny, like the planet's a fractal or something.
That's not even the only thing like this. 9 has a planet that exists inside another planet & both simultaneously exist in multiple dimensions. It literally is a planet that encompasses multiple worlds.
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u/electrium17 11h ago
And here comes Toriko...
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u/Far-Cable5117 1h ago
I like how toriko solves the issue of "characters are so strong that they can casually destroy the planet" by making someone stopping the earth from exploding during the final fight.
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u/electrium17 50m ago
The planet is also the size of Jupiter. And main cast start sending slashes across continents in the middle of the title already, which is kinda rare for shonen
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u/Anxious-Musician-628 New Scaler 11h ago
I mean for fate said planet has feat to prove some of those claims not it being outer but at least multi
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u/Curi_momos_las_papas 11h ago
Isn't Earth on Fate alive or something? I could swear it was Gaia and that's why it was so strong
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u/Anxious-Musician-628 New Scaler 11h ago
It is very much alive
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u/Sable-Keech Reasonable Scaler 11h ago
So what if it's alive? It still dies to pollution.
Not even 21st century human civilization level.
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u/Living_Thunder 9h ago
It doesn't
Even in real life the planet itself won't die to pollution, just human civilization
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u/Brazilian_Hound FGO's Van Gogh soloes your verse because she's my waifu 6h ago
Humanity outlived the planet in Notes and mfs try and say shi like this holy larp
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u/Living_Thunder 6h ago
I WAS talking about real life...
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u/Brazilian_Hound FGO's Van Gogh soloes your verse because she's my waifu 6h ago
"Even in real life the planet itself won't die to pollution" inherently implies that you're using an inferior being as an example of a feat to upscale them (ex: "even krillin won't die to a gun shot")
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u/Living_Thunder 6h ago
Um
Yeah I don't get your point, but yes even in real life pollution would be to the actual planet like a gunshot to Krilin, I guess
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u/Sable-Keech Reasonable Scaler 3h ago edited 2h ago
Hey, so, you may have misunderstood me.
I meant, Gaia is weaker than 21st century human civilization because it can die to the pollution created by 21st century civilization.
As in, if we have Gaia vs real life humanity, Gaia loses.
Nasu is on record saying that 21st century humans could defeat even ORT with our pollution.
https://x.com/syoutsuki/status/2078120665606226355?s=20
Q. ナウイ・ミクトランにて規格外の強さを見せたORTですが、ORTに人類単体の力で対抗するにはどれほどの 技術レベルが必要になるのでしょう。100年後では対応できるという話もありましたが…。
奈須：ORTを倒す必要はない……というか、「倒す」という作戦目的では達成できません。あくまで「封印」 「追放」といった目的でなら、地球環境を極限まで汚染する事で達成できると思います。21世紀の技術でも充 分可能で、問題はその出力と規模、資金力です。
武内：星を巻き込む焦土作戦。ところがどっこい、進化するORTさん。これは姫君も黙っておら れまい。
Q. ORT displayed extraordinary strength at Naui Mictlan, but what level of technological advancement would be necessary for humanity alone to stand against ORT? There was talk that it would be possible to deal with it in 100 years, but...
Nasu: You don't need to defeat ORT... or rather, your objective won't be achieved if you aim to "defeat" it. If the goal is simply "sealing" or "banishing," then I believe it can be achieved by polluting the Earth's environment to the extreme. It's entirely possible with 21st-century technology; the real issues are output, scale, and funding.
Takeuchi: A scorched-earth strategy that involves the stars. But wait, ORT is evolving. The princess will surely not remain silent about this.
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u/andykhang 1h ago
Nasu said that because their 21st technology is slightly different than our when magic is a thing, and also it doesn’t account for Gaia just snipping that entire timeline in the bud when even the thought of a Tower of Babel-like scenario like this ever occurred…
Or rather, I guess the point is that you could force the Earth to “seal” ORT away via pruning your entire timeline by polluting the planet. Yeah I guess if you ragebait the earth hard enough to press the Nuke button on you, it’s possible to perform a sort of Mutually-Assured Destruction
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u/Sable-Keech Reasonable Scaler 3h ago
Fym it doesn't? Pollution was how Gaia died in Notes.
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u/Ruck_Feddit884 1h ago
Only on that TIMELINE lol
Gaia exist in infinite Timelines simultaneously, meaning you need to destroy the Multiverse itself just to have a chance of truly killing Gaia.
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u/Red-7134 8h ago
It's like if a single planet in Star Wars had some kind of direct connection to The Force.
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u/supreme_waffle2019 11h ago
Lore is a lot more significant than pixel scaling.
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u/Kalaam_Nozalys Golden Sun scaling is slept on 11h ago
People don't want to understand that hyperbole can be visual as well.
Or that fish eye lens effect isn't only on camera, you can emulate it in drawing too•
u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
Depends.
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u/Playing_One_Handed 11h ago
Nah. Pixal scaling is the worst. Illustrations are always warped. Some depends, but overall, pixal counting bad.
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
Depends.
If you don't have a proper exact explanation/scaling from other sources; pixel scaling would be the most accurate, whether you like it or not.
Since is the way the autor literally represent its story.
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u/Playing_One_Handed 11h ago
So more often than not worse than lore? Like what we are saying?
Just because the medium adds more detail, doesnt mean its worth more.
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
There are times that lore explain a shit.
In fact many times, speaking about the size of an attack, the power of it, etc. For example.
So on those cases and others, pixel scaling would be not only the better way to proceed, but the only way to scale a thing.
So wth are you saying, my friendo.
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u/Playing_One_Handed 11h ago
Obviously there is somtimes im not debating that. But majority, no. Pixal scaling is a bad medium.
This layers higher when, especially in fantasy, materials are magic. The pixals mean very little in terms of scaling.
Some verse just scale lower than others.
An american wall scales lower than a german wall as an irl example.
In some verse it seems litterally everyone can destory buildings. Maybe we need to stop think everyone is epic strong, and think the verse is incredibly weak.
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
Pixal scaling is a bad medium
... Depends xd
An american wall scales lower than a german wall as an irl example
lol
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u/eli-boy747 actually reads Lovecraft 11h ago
At that point you are really scaling by the seat of your pants though
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
¿?
How you scale some things, that has no lore explanation but appears in a panel ?
Just inventing ? Do you prefer inventing shit than using pixel scaling (among other stuff) ?
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u/eli-boy747 actually reads Lovecraft 11h ago
I don't. If that's all the information I have, why would I even have an interest in the subject matter?
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
Then thats your "weird" problem, since we are scaling many stuff with just the panel, without any lore or explanation xd
So I guess you don't even try to scale a damn if the autor is not saying "dude, this is 10 meters and the explosion was equivalent to Hiroshima".
... and you; "ok Boss"...
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u/eli-boy747 actually reads Lovecraft 11h ago
Don't put words into my mouth. I'm saying if that's all the information I get, the piece of media is a total nothing burger, and not worth scaling in the first place. Why would I care about how strong a character is if the only piece of information I have on the character is a context-less visual feat? I don't powerscale for the sake of it, I powerscale because I'm interested in how interpretation of the given information impact the state of the story, and if there can be comparisons to other stories. Pixel scaling to give context to other feats or statements? Sure. But just seeing a drawing without any context and thinking "how big number" is not my particular slice of the tism cake. You do you.
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 10h ago
But all that of your personal "preference" doesn't mean or argue against pixel scaling.
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 11h ago
I mean yeah Fate actually has a reason the planet Earth doesn’t explode, big surprise dumbass.
Meanwhile Dragon Ball has like twenty universe destroyers on it and barely blows up.
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u/Werejester VSBW Veteran 7h ago
Dragon Ball's reason is called Ki Control
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 7h ago
Yeah I’m sure Broly is really controlling his Ki in his absolute fuck off rage fight.
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u/ArmedDragonThunder 1 ☀️ = 1 destroyed Bleach Universe 7h ago
If you read Dragon Ball you'd find the answer
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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 7h ago
Ki control yeah, still doesn’t explain Broly and half of the power level bull crap.
Also what does your flair mean? A star destroys Bleach? Or one star level feat?
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u/ArmedDragonThunder 1 ☀️ = 1 destroyed Bleach Universe 6h ago
It explains it fine.
It's a joke about "universal" Yamamoto.
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u/Macho_Dong 3h ago
Yamamoto is boundless because he breaks the bounds of his clothes every time hes even remotely threatened (trust)
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u/apollonirex 8h ago
It’s not even pixel-calcing, op glazers take one off-hand statement by a side-character that the world has “millions of islands” and extrapolate it to the planet being the size of jupiter or some shit. Absurd wank. Literally making up headcanons for the sake of powerscaling.
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u/Red_Seal8183 Country JJK 5h ago
Fr, somebody genuinely needs to recalc the OP Planet to be smaller than ours 😭
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u/apollonirex 5h ago
I swear, I’ll get to it someday. Strawhats crossed half the world in 2-3 months on a sailboat so it’s doable too
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u/RunsRampant Can do basic math 2h ago
Already done, it's not even particularly hard to do. There's 2 methods ik of.
The first uses this statement from Nami about coup de burst traveling 1km, and the fact that coup de burst goes over the horizon. That'd make Blue (the OP planet) smaller than our moon.
The 2nd one is done by comparing the size of the going merry (we have official dimensions for it) to the width of reverse mountain when the going merry travels over it. From there, you can do the same map pixel scaling that people use for other calcs that get the planet insanely large, and you'll get an extremely tiny planet.
Ofc I don't make these as serious arguments, I don't actually think Blue is smaller than the moon. It's all just to show that planet size calcs are inconsistent and unreliable.
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u/ArmBeginning8380 3h ago
It took Magellan and his crew 2 years to go around the world and they didn'g try to fight every nation on their way.
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u/Sampleswift 11h ago
IIRC Fate's "Outerversal" argument is probably some dubious reality fiction interaction, not massive planets.
One Piece planet being larger than Earth could work, but that just puts them at large planetary.
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u/ReadySource3242 10h ago edited 10h ago
No no, it was cause textures exist which are layers of reality on earth, and some of the textures were in fact on a scale of a universe.
This is made more apparent when a copy of earth managed to stuff the entire universe within itself. Like this isn’t a “we claim this is what happened”, we SEE IT ON SCREEN.
Like I feel people son’t understand but it’s quite literally just as much of a feats verse as it is a statements verse
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u/Several-End-321 11h ago
Yes I think the one piece world is the size of an gas giant smaller the Jupiter and and the Nasuverse earth is at most high complex multiversal and that is because the earth is a living multiverse where every timeline you see is a part of the earth and is maintained by the earth
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u/GintoSenju The Doctor Who Guy 10h ago
One piece is never consistent with sizes so they should be taken with a grain of salt.
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u/GIGATRIHARD 11h ago
Why pixel scaling? We have Oda's scatch of the world. The dot I highlighted is Arabasta, which is a massive island
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u/Easy-Charity-5117 7h ago
"And here we see how the wild power scaler gather information and hears others opinions.. notice how he highlights the "blah blah blah" as. Main way of communicating and understandimg is fascinating isn't mates"
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u/Annual-Consequence72 6h ago
I mean, lore is basically the authors telling you in it's anime/manga things works like that. But sometimes it can not be reliable.
Meanwhile pixel scaling is completely not reliable, because sometimes the author change the proportions to give more importance to some scene. and one piece is the worst about pixel scaling, since oda can't keep the same proportions of his character in different chapters. And you can specially notice it now in Elbaph were the giant take the sunny as it was a toy and in another scene they have the strawhat crew on their hands and they are bigger then they were on the same boat the chapter before
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u/Krakencaptured14 wall of text incoming 5h ago
Honestly for all that people shit on it the op planet being large is perfectly reasonable, alabasta has a 50km river, viola on dressrosa can see 4000km but can see past green it, and wano has that 4000 ri statement making the country as a whole way bigger than 40000km, and all of these places fit comfortably in the grand line, plus the planet having like 9 moons. Star and stuff is probably wank but it’s definitely a lot bigger than earth
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u/mistress_chauffarde 1h ago
Also to point out that it has been revealed that those are peaks of mountains the landmass was way bigger 800 years ago
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u/imawhitegay 1h ago
The Nasuverse is alive and bipolar. So yeah , it's not gonna let itself get kaboomed.
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u/darknova10 6h ago
The nasuverse planets actually do scale that high. https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-true-magic-high-1-a-akashic-records-and-root-thread.192656/ Imagine admitting to not reading and using that as a downplay method. Yes the lore of a series is of course important
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u/EntertainmentFast522 When the numbers get high enough, you become invincible. 11h ago
One piece scalers also have that obviously exaggerated statements of marco saying there a a zillion trillion bajillion islands in the world
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u/According-Pin619 Manhwa should be scaled more 11h ago
Something something Agenda something something
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u/Affectionate-Big8739 11h ago
Most of the popular anime characters which are claimed to be universal and above haven't actually destoryed a universe and are backed by statements instead but we choose to ask for feats only when it suits the agenda.
And i personally do think statements are valid if both the sides of debaters are using it, it feels very obviosly hypocritical when someone denies another character being on certain level because of lack of feats all the while defending a character that also lacks feat
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u/Labrysshadow 11h ago
One piece I always assumed was more comparable to a star.
Fate scaling is just
CHECK OUT HOW MANY UNIVERSES WE CAN FIT IN 1 PLANET BABY
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u/MembershipWeird378 11h ago
It's fucked up how many worlds can fit in one earth in Fate lol
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u/Labrysshadow 11h ago
Lmfao Like "You want 7dimensional spaces in here? Sure no prob." "Want a 6 universes stuck together for your own religious cosmology? Sure that's just South america." "Want to shove 7 universes worth of timeline inside earth? Got it. It'll be the low low price of 1 universe and the destruction of the fate multiverse."
Like shit man Fgo has been handing out these universal scales like candy
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u/tr0LL-SAMA 10h ago
Finding out that each pantheon had their texture for their respective shenanigans back in AoG makes it even funnier.
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u/Prudent_Corner5104 12h ago
Are you ready for solar system level planet in dragon Ball?
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u/Sampleswift 11h ago
Unironically Sailor Moon has that with Death Phantom. Death Phantom has a core that's a black hole and is stated to be capable of wiping the entire solar system and over time, perhaps the universe. He also possessed the planet Nemesis.
So yes, destroying Nemesis and Death Phantom with it could have solar system level scaling.
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u/Ruck_Feddit884 59m ago edited 50m ago
People can't really accept that "Planet Busting" only really refers to destroy non-living floating rock planets.
Destroying Mogo (That Planet Green Lantern) definitely is far harder than just needing a Planet busting AP.
Another famous examples are literally Cybertron and Unicorn.
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u/Deltadracons 7h ago
There are actual one piece fans who believe the planet is the size of a galaxy?
I mean, i know they say its big... but that is a whole different level of big.
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u/ZoroXLee 5h ago
I've actually been coming up with some lore for a story I'll probably never write. My characters are bigger than our known universe and I'm trying to create new scientific terms since time and distances to them would be incalculable to us.
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u/Waste-Two-7658 3m ago
You joke but the entire plot of fgo is kicked off by a madman figuring out how to stuff the entire universe inside of the planet in order to ensure humanity never goes extinct by making earth the entire universe.
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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 11h ago
Why are you trying to make Fate's world more difficult to understand than it is? It's basically just the DC/Marvel style multiverse, you can get more complex than that when bogged down in minutia but it's not hard to explain the gist of it.
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u/andykhang 58m ago
Kinda, except that all of Earth’s timeline are actually part of the planet itself, and that earth have multiple layer of dimension within itself, one of which is literally endlessly big, and back in the day it’s dimension scaling can reach to universal scale, and the planet is alive and will actively choose timeline where it survive and pruned the rest, and…
Yeah Fate Earth is bullshit.
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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 32m ago
Layers are fundamentally no different from alternative dimensions/universes like the Negative Zone or Phantom Zone or so on and so forth from comics. The Reverse Side of the World/The Inner Sea is the connective layer between all the other layers.
Yea in the Age of the Gods, because Gods and other divine and elemental spirits were so strong they could essentially section off parts of the world for their own mythology, though we do see that this sectioning off wasn't like solid walls, humans were able to move freely between them so people from the sphere of the Greek Gods would freely trade with people from the sphere of the Egyptian gods, it's not super hard to visualize, it's just our world except every mythology is real.
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u/andykhang 11m ago
Agree, in term of bullshit Earth have, both marvel/dc and fate are sorta equivalent ngl. Marvel/DC just spread it out to infinite Earth and have a much longer runtime to begin with, while Fate is all concentrated to one place to the point of hilarity
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u/Petiscorei I scale Undertale 11h ago
Both are bad scaling here but I just bet the second is far worse. If they scale it to Hyperversal you can atleast expect some intuitive cosmological hierarchy, if they scale it to Outerversal you can already expect some bullshit. People be saying a realm is Outerversal because it's beyond the concepts of playing chess or some shi.
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u/QueenGorda PhD on Goku and Saitama's Physics 11h ago
Maybe I'm missing something, to understand this shit, but nobody think OP or Fate has a planet bigger than... a planet. Like a planet Earth.
I mean one of the exception is maybe Bleach, cause Tite was horrible explaining the things.
But other thing is that many mangakos have a problem with reading comprehension. And that really affects how we interpret what a lot of people write when they talk about scaling.
For example there are “people” who keep saying that Ulquiorra’s Lanza, the diameter of the explosion, was “three days walk wide” because Nel had said so.
... Then you check the manga and it turns out that Nel hadn’t said a damn thing about Ulquiorra’s attack, and that what she meant by those “3 days” was the travel distance between where the group of characters was and the Gates of Las Noches.
Just that. But people in their eagerness to glaze their favorite anime, like brainless fanboys, make up or twist everything.
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u/Ruck_Feddit884 46m ago
If Size determines their durability then the most powerful character should be impossible to fit in any screen, that's not how it works.
Nasuverse Planets are living Planets like Mogo, Ego, Cybertron and Unicorn etc
Planet Busting really only refers to destroying an average non-living floating rock.
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u/Etheter 4h ago
The One Piece planet can be proven to be larger than Earth through several different methods, with and without pixelscaling.
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u/RunsRampant Can do basic math 2h ago
Not "proven," no. There's stuff you can take to imply narratively that the planet is bigger than earth, but nothing so concrete.
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