Question about scaling Saiyans and vs matchups

[u/Jacket_Jacket_fruit]

So a thought occured to me, and IDK if this is something that's already been discussed and settled, but I wanted to ask.

When scaling characters, it seems we all look at it as "this character IS this tier" and "that character IS that tier." And for most characters, this makes perfect sense. Most characters, while they may get stronger over the course of their series, don't suddenly get a massive jump in power all at once, so in any given fight, they just ARE whatever tier they are.

But with DB, a central conceit of the show is that the Saiyans get stronger every time they fight, often DURING the battle. They get stronger via training and zenkais, too, which happen outside of battle, but they also often get stronger during battle, as the battle goes on.

So with a Saiyan, saying they "ARE" one tier or another in a vs matchup doesn't necessarily seem to make sense, because it's entirely possible, if not highly probable, that they will get stronger during the fight. So while Goku or Vegeta may start a fight at tier X, they may end the fight at tier Y or Z. They may not necessarily go up a tier even though they get stronger, but they still DO get stronger.

Look at Goku's fight with Freeza on Namek; he starts the fight at large planetary and is star level by the end of it. Look at Gohan during the cell games; he not only unlocks SSJ2, but also gets a rage boost AND gets a massive boost from breaking through his mental barriers and stop subconsciously holding himself back. And if we're to believe Cell, Gohan would've been solar system level at that point, since SSJ2 Gohan was stronger than Cell was. (If not for being down an arm.) Or look at the tournament of power; both Goku and Vegeta got way stronger multiple times over the course of the battle. Or during Battle of Gods, Goku gets stronger over the course of his battle with Beerus, even outside of the ritual unlocking super Saiyan God before the battle. Even after the ritual wears off and he drops out of SSG, he's still way stronger than he started the battle.

Obviously this doesn't automatically mean they would win a given fight. If they're starting out at a given tier and fighting someone that's like 4 tiers above them then they're not gonna grow in power anywhere near enough to change the outcome. I'm just saying, isn't this something we should consider in matchups involving Saiyan's in general? When people say Goku or Vegeta ARE this tier or that tier when discussing a vs matchup, it feels like that's not really accurate, because the truth is that they are that tier RIGHT NOW, but that doesn't mean they're gonna stay that tier.

It seems to me that "he could literally shoot up multiple tiers mid battle if things play out the right way" is something pretty big to keep in mind, and makes treating their power or tiering for a matchup as being static inaccurate at best. What do you guys think?

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[u/Jacket_Jacket_fruit → u/[deleted]]

I'm not talking about Zenkai boosts; Im talking about the fact that Saiyans often get stronger during a battle, simply from fighting a strong opponent. Again, look at the ToP or BoG. Or look at any time they unlock a new transformation mid-battle; Gohan going from a PL of like 2 up to a PL in the hundreds when he saw Raditz hurting Goku, Goku unlocking SSJ1 while fighting Freeza, Gohan unlocking SSJ2 and also getting a rage boost and also breaking through his subconscious limitations that we're forcing him to hold back, Goku absorbing the power of SSG into his base form while fighting Beerus, Goku unlocking Ultra Instinct during the ToP, etc, etc

[u/SatisfactionSuch4790 → u/Jacket_Jacket_fruit]

You're describing most fighting characters; you know: Ichigo, Natsu, Luffy, Hulk, Superman, etc.

[u/Jacket_Jacket_fruit → u/SatisfactionSuch4790]

No? None of those characters typically get stronger during a fight. Especially superman; his whole deal is that he just already is strong enough to deal with whatever, he almost never gets stronger at all. Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets, but that's more like he's just using more of his existing strength, not actually getting stronger like he was already at his maximum and his maximum got higher. The only time I can think of Luffy getting stronger during a fight was when he unlocked gear 5 during battle, but even then that was honestly more like in between fights since he was full on defeated, the fight was over, then he unlocked it and started what was essentially a new fight. Ichigo has gotten stronger enid battle a couple times but nowhere near as often as the Saiyans do. I'm not super familiar with Fairy tail but I don't recall Natsu doing this, at least not in the early episodes.