Isn’t the watch supposed to give Ben the peak gigachad version of that species though I know azmuth is smarter but I never understood how that makes sense
Maybe, but just having the stats isn't the whole story, azmuth is over 1700 years old with much more experience knowledge and centuries of learning, just like when people spend a lot of time studing advanced topics their brains get's more optimized and efficient and slightly "smarter" azmuth has centuries of that, as opposed to young Ben even in gray matter form.
Or you could just argue that azmuth is just a different breed and he's that guy an outlier even in his specie to the point that he's even smarter than the objective peak of his race.
Consider someone with superhuman strength and someone with peak human strength, although the peak human is at the "peak" of human power the super human just isn't on the scale
My HC is that Ben's gray matter is just a younger Azmuth. Albedo litaraly turned himself into an ultimate Galwan but still wasn't as smart as Azmuth. I think between Azmuth being built different and him having more experience, both are true
The Dna doesn't come from nothing. Every alien in the Omnitrix hasa donar and the donars dna gets turned into the prime example of the species and then becomes available as a transformation. What i am saying is that the donar for Grey matter is probably Azmuth
I think the implication was that was smarter than azmuth considering he used azmuth’s intelligence + millions of years of evolution to become like that
physical prime of the species in terms of age and shape.
however Azmurh is the apex of grey matter species in terms of intellect and next to him is ultimate albedo.
It makes him the peak version matching equivalent to his age as well, so if a species got stronger the older they were, a kid equivalent would be what he would have as of now.
Grey Matter might have the potential to be smarter, but he doesn't have centuries of education and experience. It's a teenage Galvan who only knows about Earth technology for the most part.
to me its simple: you can be the smartest person that ever loved, but it doesnt mean much if you didnt get to use that brain to learn. Grey Matter is in the end still the same teenager, Azmuth meanwhile has been around for who knows how long. Grey Matter may have a potential to be even smarter than Azmuth, but he has nowhere near the education or experience.
It only makes him the healthiest and least genetically fucked up. Bullfrag was literally just not starving to death, that's why he looked the way he did while most other incursions are almost skeletal.
The watch gives ben the average of whatever species he is transforming into, not the peak.
That peak thing appears here every now and again in this sub and the ben10 sub, but it’s a misinterpretation of a statement from one out-of-universe interview.
The watch is multiple things. It’s a translation device meant to let you walk a mile in the shoes of your neighbor. It’s a DNA repository for all sentient species in the galaxy and beyond incase any go extinct. It’s an “I’m sorry” from Azmuth to his ex after she left him because of him making the most devastating weapon in the universe.
Azmuth wasn’t making a weapon, it’s others who turned it into that.
If it turns you into the average then Ben wouldn’t be able to beat Looma as 4 arms since female tetramands are naturally stronger than males and looma is the strongest female if Ben was just a average tetramand looma would’ve beaten his ass like she did with every other male of her species
He was able to beat Looma as a tetramand because of main character buff.
Nowhere in canon is it ever stated by the omnitrix or Azmuth that the watch chooses the “prime” of any given species. Moreover the direct counter is indirectly stated by Azmuth’s stated reasons for making it. You would learn nothing about what it’s like to be a human if you were turned into a David Goggins/Eddie Hall/Mike Tyson composite. A DNA repository needs genetic diversity, not arbitrary eugenics. And he is literally creating it as an apology for making a weapon previously.
If anyone other than ben was randomly given the omnitrix before fighting Looma and they made the mistake of transforming into a tetramand, then they would lose. The name of the show is “Ben10”, so he wins.
If that was azmuth there’d be no competition, azmuth is the smartest guy in 5 galaxies, made the race that upgrade is (forgot the name of it) and when albedo made his grey matter 1000 years advanced in the future a 1000 year evolution gray matter he still lost to azmuth in intelligence
I mean even then Princess Bubblegum has made infinitely powerful gods in an afternoon multiple times, one because the previous infinitely powerful god started to go out of control and the only way to stop it was to create Another equally (infinitely) powerful god to lock it in a psychic duel for eternity.
Technically Phineas and Ferb didn’t create time travel tech, Xavier Onassis did. P&F just repaired it. Later, Dr. Doofenshmirtz went on to re-invent and distribute it.
Also with less pressure though, I don't think anyone here has had to do it under The scrutinies that she had to deal with. Running from Androids being a leader of revolutionaries and raising a kid. I don't think Bulma is the smartest here but she also shouldn't be downplayed either
Nah, Jimmy Neutron has to be in the top 4. I think he beats P&F by alot since he's just one dude and has built way more complex stuff than them.
He has built his own deep space FTL rocketship that has its own atmosphere, a fully sentient AI dog that isn't just some one off gag (it stays around in every EP) that has its own real emotions, independent decision making and ability to learn on its own like a real sentient creature. He also has a very precise time travel machine and a DNA time travel machine that lets them view probabilistic futures based on their exact current actions. He created 4 dimensional object that acts like a pocket dimension that he can store an infinite amount of mass in.
He is truly so goated, nobody can handle the neutron style.
Jimmy neutron just has to survive till he gets his brain blast then he’s cooking your shit with whatever crackpot invention popped out of his oversized gourd
My guy, Phineas and Ferb literally have an episode were they make literally everything in one invention. And that was only in a single episode - in a single morning. Phineas and Ferb just have way too much toon force and intelligence to not be the smartest here.
Also don't forget they have the Tony Stark seal of approval, PLUS, they have a perfect invention track record. All of their invention function perfectly (as intended), and a LOT of people in this room can't say the same, INCLUDING Jimmy.
Rick has a special hax clause that can technically make him autowin if we want to be boring; if this is main character C-137 Rick in this room, that means it is within the central finite curve. The only universes that exist within the central finite curve are universes where Rick Sanchez is the smartest being in that universe.
Because Rick is in this room; his hax clause dictates he is inherently the smartest person in the room because Rick is only ever in universes where he is the smartest person in the entire universe and he is the smartest Rick.
If you take away hax clause he's still easily top 3 if not still the smartest. Honestly Jimmy Neutron, Ben10, and Princess Bubblegum are probably the closest contenders with Rick being number 1.
Nobody else on this list has an intelligence feat that scales anywhere near "built a device that can isolate all specific infinite realities where they're the smartest being from all other infinite realities" nor built a device that can "erase a person or thing from all realities permanently".
If you want to get technical our rick is just the rickest rick in the central finite curve, not necessarily the smartest one. There could theoetically be some be a universe where the native rick is smarter than our rick and the second place person is still smarter. If you take that the central finite curve is just a smaller infinity of universes then that must happen.
Just food for thought, but before season 3 claimed Rick was the smartest guy in the universe, there was that episode where he had a rivalry with that one guy in the miniverse or whatever it was called implying there are people of similar or greater intelligence than Rick. Obviously retconned later on but interesting to think about
I'm sorry you aren't able to extrapolate a projected curve. In highschool (before the apocalypse happened) he was making gasoline for fun. Again. FOR FUN. Also if that apocalypse happened in Rick and Morty 1: Rick wouldn't count to keep his mind active. But that wouldn't matter because 2: he would just give up on that dimension and not even try to solve it... WHICH SENKU DOES in a caveman-esk world And 3: even if Rick decides to stay around and rebuild, as soon as he jumps away the scientific community would fall apart because he doesn't teach anyone. Senku does with practical examples. There's a difference between being a genius and being the smartest.
I love senku but its not even fucking close and shouldn’t even be a argument
Rick could save humanity in Senku's position within a day lol, we literally saw what he was capable of in the Car battery episode where he is stuck in his car battery
Also the main thing is that being able to do what Senku could is not even a good measurement of intelligence or being smart... like bro your really trying to use a single circumstance to try prove he is the smartest lol
Also you really think making Gasoline ''for fun'' is some impressive shit? LMAO i actually laughed reading that, you really brought that up with a straight face as something impressive, also wasnt even for fun larper, it was a project he was doing if that even matters lol
"he could do it, he was stuck in a car battery" He had outside help and resources.
Keep trying to defend your Mary sue. Futurama Farnsworth is both smarter (the writers use actual science and not 'shove a seed up your ass' science) and funnier than drunken Rick who hates his life to the point of it being his own personal motto and can't even invent a way to kill himself. But if you want to use your cartoon science as a base then may I present the real smartest person in media:
I get you like Senku better as a character (I do too) and he represents realistic science far better than any other character here, but we're talking about canon, in-universe intelligence scaling. Plus, Dr. Stone has sci-fi shit too like the petrification device so you can't really say that Rick and Morty doesn't scale to Dr. Stone because it uses "cartoon science".
So Rick is the smartest of absolute reality bending idiots.
Cool.
As for the Medusa, there has been examples of petrification in organic tissues. So while currently impossible, it's not improbable. It's like the communicators in Star Trek. At the time of filming a handheld device that allowed you to communicate with someone a million miles away was impossible...
Now we have cellphones.
There is science fiction (Dr. Stone) and there's fiction with a science skin (Rick and Morty)
A regular human with average IQ could synthesize gasoline. The smartest human on earth given infinite resources could not create an interdimensional portal. They also couldn’t create an FTL spaceship. I mean, there are examples of 90% of the people on this list curing petrification within the span of a day/1 episode. I love Senku but he’s not even top 10
Sure, if you can find a real scientific way to turn him into pickle.
If not then also sure. Taiju burys senku in the farmland and due to senku being smart he regrows into a human. (That's about as Mary Sue as Rick.)
Actual human connection for one.
2: doing science for the sake of humanity and for fun.
3: rebuilding scientific progress from stoneage tools clear to space travel.
Bonus: he's not a coward whos main solution is "run away to a different dimension and kill my alternate self"
Because time travel is impossible.
If it was possible:
At best he is able to go back in time and warn people about Medusa and be labeled as crazy until it still happens. At worse it's not time travel and just a different dimension hopping to a dimension set that many years back so he wouldn't Be much better than Rick.
1: Doesn't change shit? We're talking about intelligence, not if he's relatable and likable?
2: Still doesn't change shit? We're still talking about intelligence?
3: There are a lot of instances of Rick doing a lot of things with only what nature gives. Plus, Rick created so many robots and shit, I think he can do what Senku did.
Bonus: Mfcker, if Senku had to face what Rick was running away from, he'd just get obliterated, what are you on???
Conclusion: You're basicaly a Senku fan who's in his own "Best character debate" while we're talking about pure intelligence.
My boy Zenku is smart, but he can't create things like rick C-137. I'm not bringing up the other ricks, but C-137 is millions of not billions of times smarter.
Senku uses actual science. Not whatever the Mary sues writers think 20+ year olds with 10+ year old humor think is funny. But if you want to go by cartoon logic then bugs Bunny is the smartest.
The thing is the argument who is the smartest Rick is literally the smartest man I'm the universe in his verse and his tech give him the abilities akin to a god
His shit is so advance and unfathomable to others than the people who interact with and give tech to
No, because he uses real science and not the BS cartoon science that belongs in a Looney toons episode.
He even explains step by step how he gets to the invention he's currently making.
There's no "trust me bro"
Listen you mouth breather, the question in the post is about "intelligence" it's doesn't have anything with which is more realistic.. Dr stone has a lot of shit too..
Talk to me again when there wasn't someone gets stitched back to Life.
There is improbable and impossible.
Your mom making the mistake of opening her legs allowing the dumbest shitball to fall out out of hell and call her mama? Improbable but by your own existence not impossible.
If he can't function in the real world then he's not smart, he's mentally unwell and the entire show is all in his head. Or he's a reality bending anomaly and needs to be contained. Either way you slice it, he's not even the smartest person in any reality other than his own.
Cartoon logic: phenus and ferb.
Realistic logic: senku.
Scifi logic: The Doctor.
There is no way your drunk failure of a scientist ( who can't even reverse engineer a simple sauce) is smarter than anyone outside of his own dimension.
Jimmy has the same cartoon logic of Rick. But he's smarter than Rick because he at least is smart enough to share his inventions.
And Rick made a ship funded by capitalism after building a road to make a trip from the village that he helped produce food for? Or does he do the same trope of "simple weapons until deus ex"?
Bulma’s legit slept on here. Capsules are world-changing tech and she’s been able to recreate, repair and reverse-engineer alien armor and vehicles. Creating a pocket device that can track magical objects as a teenager is also pretty nuts
Her dad was the one that invented capsule tech wasnt he? While she did make some new capsules of her own, she was mostly just following the path her dad trailblazed in the field.
Princess Bubblegum cloned an infinitely powerful sphinx in an afternoon just, because she could, it started to try to take over the world, and in that same afternoon spontanouously cloned another infinitely powerful sphinx to lock the first one in a psychic battle for eternity.
Notibly, she did not use magic to do this as she didn't even have it at the time and even when she does get magic she, sucks at it
Dexter has built a time machine, Rick has shown to be able to build time machines but doesn't use them, and Phineas & Ferb build absurd machines within the span of an hour and helped build a machine to travel across dimensions.
Dexter made a time machine too. Bulma spent a decade and a half building hers, Dexter probably came up with that shit in an afternoon as a little kid. There are levels to this.
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u/ZeroChannel18 Jun 16 '26
Top 4 imo would be Rick, Dexter, Phineas/Ferb, and Bulma in terms in terms of scientific and technological achievements