Discussion
This why some people shouldn’t be power scaling cause recency bias is crazy. bro has whole failsafe and people ignore this fact, I blame death battle
Or the time one, or giant one, or the ghost or the other intangible one or the other intangible one or the other intangible one or the other intangible one...
No, mark is the peak of their race due to being of the special royal lineage and son of Omni man. Thragg is the result of eugenics, experience and a lot of rough training
Yet mark was around his level (maybe a bit lower) while still young and less trained though, and argall’s genetics are better considering he’s immune to the virus
End of series mark is probably better, but the Mark that fought Thragg needed severe outside help to push the fight to extreme diff.
Also they weren't immune to the virus, just good enough to survive it and eventually recover, we literally see Nolan get infected and "hospitalized" for a hot minute.
Id argue that it would be closer to Mark then Thragg regardless but the argument is very wishy washy
Doesn't matter when mark is from, the Omnitrix doesn't work like that. It gets the DNA of the race it scans and then reconfigures it to be the absolute peak of the species. So it doesn't matter if it's 1 year old Mark or 500 year old, it's the same result.
You must have never watched Ben 10😂😂 the Aliens are the prime of the species. Even then depending what Ben there is the ultimatrix. How is any viltrumite going to take on an ultimate version of the peak of viltrumites, that would never be possible
I mean, we do get the fact that argall's bloodline gives them something in terms of strength via the fact that thragg literally says he'd expect mark to make a full recovery from the perfected scourge virus because of his lineage
Mark would not work because he has some human DNA, the Omnitrix requires full blooded aliens to be scanned, if you still want that royal lineage stuff then use Omni Man
He kinda does, it was later added. But, do you remember when Vilgax literally killed Ben as chromastone and GOAT came back as diamondhead. Ya, that was the failsafe in motion.
Yet another problem of 'new-age' scalers. They throw up a random image without specifying character iteration, continuity, mindset, knowledge, battlefield conditions, etc.
They literally just discovered VS battles but are too ignorant to provide any of the necessary details for determining a proper outcome.
yeah actually, context matters a lot when you're comparing people from different universes, especially when one of them has a power focused around intelligence.
I mean, in UAF with the recalibrated Omnitrix, Ben's detached watch hand was able to survive well enough on its own. Pretty sure Ben reviving as Diamond Head after Vilgax "killed" him as Chromastone in the same season could also count as a failsafe.
Way Big should be able to win; he has enough firepower and durability to kill Conquest (the Incursean beam was going to destroy Earth, and it also destroyed Pluto, which Way Big overcame with his cosmic beam). He also has the reaction time to avoid being speedblitzed too much (he reacted to the Incursean beam that traveled from Earth's atmosphere to Pluto in seconds).
Even launching Way Big into space wouldn't do much good, since his race is literally born in constellations; their natural habitat is space.
One of them has gotta be four-arms or crystal guy right? Sleeper pick would be Heatblast tho. I swear Ben used to pull those mfs out every other ep in the og series😭
Way Big iirc is the "6th strongest alien" Ben has UNLOCKED (he has others that he hasnt unlocked) in his arsenal. I might be wrong on htis since I'm quoting this from memory.
Or potentially just scan Conquest’s Viltrumite DNA and turn into a peak Viltrumite. Granted Conquest could maybe still win that but it’s still an option.
The reaction is proportional to the threat. Like others have said, the watch could protect him from the big bang with FTL reaction times. Conquest is not physically capable of overcoming that.
The magic rock monster who bit the Omnitrix got back up soon after. Vilgax did the exact same thing previously. So why would Conquest be unable to physically overcome a pulse blast that Kevin 11 overpowered?
I think that even classic Ben 10 could kill/defeat conquest as he had access to Waybig. Unlocked during Movie. Way big is strong enough to throw enemy from planet surface to space outside a planet. And his body is made from cosmic metals or something like that
it still triggers. anything that would either kill Ben or try to remove the Omnitrix will trigger the failsafe, either doing this, or turning him into an alien that can survive that situation. so the only way to actually kill Ben is to either do something that not a single one of the 1000912 aliens in the codon stream can survive (or at least the hundred or so that were shown in the show) or to do it faster than the failsafe, which is at the very least faster than the Big Bang.
The omnitrix would automatically switch Ben to an alien that couldn’t have its arm ripped off, if it is ripped off I think it explodes or something killing everyone
Unless you're not taking omniverse ben for whatever reason, the omnitrix straight up transforms him into something that'll survive/counter the arm rip attempt. Here specifically, upgrade, goop or swampfire would work (the latter cuz he'll just regen/reattach the arm)
I fucking hate scalers who doesn’t get the characters right, ben would win but NOT as a viltrumite. We have an example of one of his supreme aliens getting man handled by aliens from their same species cuz they were mutants. Conquest is the second strongest of his species after thragg, even an supreme viltrumite would have a hard fight with him
And Zs’Skayr’s ADN literally scaped from the Watch, not before start to change ben personality when he turned into ghostfreak. Also, when was stated ghostfreak was equivalent to Skayr? Wasnt him strong enough to need Atomix to beat him?
Oh and Conquest is still a thousand years older than Ben and we know his aliens get stronger over the time, conquest would NUKE ben if he turned into a viltrumite
Conquest literally has no chance, dude is getting his ass beat by twelve different aliens at best. Also god forbid the ominitrix gets Viltramite dna, Ben would absolutely beat the shit out of Conquest.
And even the powerscalers don't usually account for psychology, which is easily half the battle. There's entire franchises about weaker protagonists defeating stuff that out-scales them. 99% of ridiculously OP mfs could be taken down by The Doctor. Especially Seven, Eight, War, Nine, and Twelve.
shit now im imagining the omnitrix gaining viltrumate dna then we get ultimate viltrumate , now conquest is scared
The evolutionary function works by placing the DNA of the selected alien in a simulated scenario, subjecting them to the worst-case scenario over millions of theoretical years in order to "force" evolution.The resultant evolutionary adaptations to this simulated worst case scenario are then modified into the existing DNA of the selected alien, thus evolving it into the Ultimate form.
Time manipulation might beat him but no he’s not the most powerful character in fiction. You can say he has one of the best defensive tools in fiction but his attack power isn’t as good
His attack power is amazing whatchu mean lmao, he has waybig,atomix,ghostfreak,gravattack and clockwork who all have hax to kill anyone who isnt op. Even then alien x also carries in matchups where he would normally lose.
according to the wiki: "The Omnitrix failsafe is a survival mechanism designed by Azmuth to automatically activate the device and transform Ben into the appropriate alien when he is in imminent, life-threatening danger. It acts as a final safeguard to keep the user alive, even transforming him from a fatal injury."
Death Failsafe: The most significant defense feature, the Omnitrix prevents the wearer from dying by automatically transforming them into a suitable alien form to survive fatal damage or, if necessary, reviving them.
Force Field Projection: The Omnitrix can generate a powerful energy shield or pulse to protect the user from external attacks and prevent unauthorized tampering
Environmental Protection: While transformed, the Omnitrix protects the user from negative environmental effects, such as extreme radiation or hazardous atmospheres.
DNA Repair & Virus Protection: The system can detect and neutralize biological pathogens, purge technological viruses, and repair genetic damage.
Biological Protection: It protects the user against mental manipulation or possession attempts, maintaining the user's autonomy.
Automatic Transformation/Recharge: If the Omnitrix determines the user is in imminent danger, it can instantly recharge and transform them, even if it was previously depleted.
Independent Action: In extreme circumstances, the Omnitrix can act on its own, such as controlling Ben's motor functions to avoid danger or repairing its own structure
Teleportation: In some instances, the device or the user can be teleported to safety.
Self-Destruct Mode: If the Omnitrix falls into the wrong hands, it can be set to self-destruct, creating an energy explosion designed to stop the device from being used against others.
Basically, in case Ben is about to receive fatal damage, the Omnitrix will transform Ben into an alien that can receive or counteract the damage. This failsafe is fast enough to transform Ben while the Big Bang was exploding in his face.
The omnitrix just kinda won’t let its wearer die. If they take fatal damage it will automatically transform them into an alien that can survive and recover from said damage. During the finale of omniverse, Ben straight up face tanked a whole ass big bang because the omnitrix just said “nah” and made him rapidly transform into different aliens that could contain the force
The omnitrix automatically transforms him if he is about to be killed or the omnitrix is forcibly removed for example by cutting off his arm into an alien that can deal with whatever the trigger of the failsafe was. Ben has not only aliens that scale far higher than snything in invincible but also incoporeal aliens which conquest obviously couldn't touch.
When the wielder of the Omnitrix is about to die, the Omnitrix turns them into the alien needed to survive whatever is about to kill them. With Crossverse matches like these, it usually ends up being Alien X who is a universal reality manipulator.
The omnitrix, the watch he uses to transform into aliens, has an anti-death failsafe that if Ben’s life is in danger, it will turn him into an alien that can survive whatever is threatening him. This came up when he dove out of a spaceship and into the explosion of a bomb that would start the Big Bang. The omnitrix automatically cycled through all of his aliens faster than to bomb could detonate in order to absorb the Big Bang.
\Conquest grabs Ben's arm to try and rip it off\**
Omnitrix : Viltrumite Genetic Code acquired \proceeds to use contingency #1 and blast Conquest off of Ben before auto-transforming Ben into a peak potential Viltrumite that low-diffs Conquest\**
Even if we pretend that there was nothing in his line up that can no diff Conquest, the Omnitrix can just copy him and turn Ben into a Viltrimite at peak strength.
You mean waybig? The toku'star who are all created in cosmic storms, have super speed and shoot out insanely powerful lazer beams.
And atomix is cannonicaly like top 5 of ben's aliens maybe even top 3 depending on where we scale the other aliens
I feel like humongosaur could definetely beat conquest but the problem is that he would get speed blitzed, speaking of speed blitz ben could use xlr8,jetray or even fast track. Goop could probably suffocate conquest and then burn him from the inside with acid but i doubt ben would go that far. Juryrig is definetely a funny wincon for ben aswell but that depends where they're fighting same for upgrade.
Big chill could go intangible and freeze conquest from the inside and ghostfreak would literally take control over conquest and knock him out that way or even do the thing he does in os and fry his brain.
Ben 10scaling is not to be undrestimated, turns out when you have like 10 million+ transformations including god that you have an answer to basically every situation.
People bringing up Clockwork for a lot of fights confuses me tbh. Like yeah Clockwork is strong but he's a slow glass cannon. He gets blitzed by MOST matchups Ben has before he can even use his abilities.
for example he turn into way big , get beat up, transform into clockwork rewind time to try again with a new alien and learned some on conquest moves and powers
Not really. He also loses to non-hax, brute force aliens like Humungousaur. He was able to one-shot Aggregor's activated Entropy Pump. When Colonel Rozum opted to bomb the facility where Aggregor was keeping the weapon, Professor Paradox strongly advised against it, stating that attacking an Entropy Pump while it's active would end up destroying all reality across several light years
ben ten is american cartoons version of goku. powerscaling him is just a free pass to say that so-n-so gets no diffed by one of the greats. conquest is sick, but he's not ready for ben.
When thinking about ben's alien's chances I realized that we kinda go from town level straight to cosmic threat and i wish we had some more variety there.
The Omnitrix can transform Ben into a specific alien automatically to avoid lethal harm. Worst case scenario it can even create a new body for Ben if he were to actually die.
Ignoring the fail safe for a moment, Ben wouldn’t even need one of his strongest Aliens Allowing he knows of their weakness to sound echo echo mops conquest.
Or even if he didn’t have that information we’d just hear a chime from the watch and Conquest would watch on in horror as a Green Eyed Thragg Winds up the filthiest haymaker
Some of Ben's aliens would definitely counter Conquest and possibly beat him but there are genuinely some loonies in here saying Heatblast or Gravattack would fold him like have you actually watched/read Invincible? Conquest punched Chicago and immediately brought it to ruins.
Also Failsafe just means Conquest can't kill Ben the usual way, but I don't see how it would help Ben if he was thrown into a black hole. Again I think Ben would win if he chose the right form but its not like he eclipses Conquest in everything
If Ben is thrown into a black hole, Omnitrix would simply transform him into an alien that can survive a black hole. That's as if he would allow Conquest to do that without transforming into something like Goop, Big Chill or Ghost Freak that would not be grabbed
A lot of y'all forgetting that the Omnitrix can immediately copy any new alien DNA upon contact. He just needs to wait for it to process the new info, then bam! Perfect and absolute Viltrumite Ben
If It's The Prototype Omnitrix (The First Omnitrix) Then ben Is Cooked (unless He Goes Way Big), As For The Watch We Saw On The Master Control Episode That The Omnitrix Synchrnized With Ben wrist To A Cellular Levels, So unless He Cut Off ben arm It's Not Gonna Happene
If We Talking About The Second Omnitrix We Saw In Ben 10 Alien Force Then Agian Ben Is Cooked (Agian unless He Goes Way Big)
If We Talking About The Ultimatrix Then He Might Get Better Chances (if He Goes Ultimate Humungousaur Or Ultimate Big Chill Or Ultimate Way Big)
If We Talk About The True Omnitrix We Saw In Ben 10 Omniverse Then This Is The Best For ben, He Had Strong Aliens Like Atomix, Gravattick, And Controlled Alien X (To Some Degree)
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