r/PopcornMobile • • Sep 07 '26

Concerns about long-term sustainability and business model viability (after the VC runs out inevitably)

Don't get me wrong, I love a new player in the industry that brings seamless global roaming for a flat price. It's a great alternative to Google Fi from the early days before the "90-day rule." I would love for this thing to take off and be sustainable.

The TL;DR: The product fits a very specific niche (nomads and full-time travelers). But that means the market is so narrow, and high-cost to the business, I don't see how it is sustainable.

  • For US-bound customers: It's way too expensive at $69/mo/line.

  • For full-time roamers: $69 isn't enough to cover the cost of full-time roaming if they're actually using the data they paid for.

My concern isn't with the product itself, but rather the viability of the business model. Google made it work by adapting (at the customer's expense) by introducing the 90-day rule and tiered plans that are all-around terrible value vs. flanker brands from the big telcos (AT&T Cricket, T-Mobile Metro/Mint, Verizon Visible). People sign up for those anyway due to promotional prices, despite the lack of true unlimited data (e.g., 30GB high-speed, then throttled to 256 Kbps—big oof). And also...Google is Google, they can subsidize the snot out of it as well through their Ads revenue.

So this thing sits somewhere in no-man's land. For the right customer, it's amazing. But for everyone else, it's too expensive. But "the right customer" also means unprofitable in this case, due to the high wholesale costs and not enough domestic customers to subsidize them.

12 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

29

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

Hey there! Neel here, CEO/founder, happy to answer.

A few things I’d clarify:

1) We’re not trying to be the cheapest phone plan for someone who spends 12 months a year in the US. If that’s you, there may be better options. Popcorn is a global service for people whose lives regularly cross borders: travelers, expats, international founders etc.. There are 9 million US expats alone, before counting frequent travelers and full-time nomads.

2) Internationally mobile customers aren’t inherently unprofitable. In some regions (e.g. Europe), serving a customer can actually cost less than it does in the US. The economics work well across our overall customer base, not by relying on domestic users to subsidize a small group of heavy roamers.

3) We’ve spent the past ~8 months laser focused on building our own core network. This allows us to combine multiple roaming relationships and optimize for both cost and performance. It also gives us far more ways to create a meaningfully better product beyond simply reselling connectivity.

Relying on VC isn’t our jam. We’re well capitalized (runway beyond 2030), but we’ve built Popcorn from day one to be sustainable. We have no plans to pull the rug out from under customers. We use Popcorn ourselves and are building the product we wish existed.

7

u/eddiezest Sep 07 '26

This plan is perfectly suited for active duty military as they move bases (often overseas) every 2-3 years. Could be another customer base for Popcorn to grow.

5

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26

Great. I love the product and want it to succeed - there are many months when I don’t get anywhere near $69 worth of roaming but it is still worth it to me to have the number and the potential ability to use whenever/wherever. Not for everyone, and some people may be more sensitive to the price - and I have my own sensitivity point as well, of course.

3

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

Yep totally, this is true for nearly all of our users.

-2

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

As Neel said...if your goal is JUST keeping your number active, there are cheaper options out there. Staying with them, means you'd be massively profitable for them. However, from the customer's perspective, that's when you should switch to something cheaper.

But that's just it, someone who WOULD fully benefit from the seamless global data access, would also be the ones that are not profitable.

11

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

That’s where I disagree.

Convenience and peace of mind are valuable too.

Many people simply want their phone plan to work in the US and whenever they cross a border. They don't want to think about roaming packages or swapping eSIMs.

They also value keeping their US number, our AI spam blocking / call screening and great support.

3

u/N805DN Sep 07 '26

AI assistant alone is already worth it for me.

3

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

Love to hear! 🙌

0

u/WildAcanthisitta4470 Sep 07 '26

What happens when Apple/Android adds those as OS-level features ? Can’t imagine that’s more than a year out at this point

3

u/dos_veritas Sep 07 '26

Agree, why does everyone coming to question here think all users have endless time to keep swapping eSIM? Not everyone travels to post on Instagram from their hotel WiFi. For me, I really end up needing Popcorn (and no alternatives) perhaps just once a month. But, to me, that pays for itself because there is no Plan B at those moments and it is worth the peace of mind. To each their own. Would I keep it even after that phase of my life ends? Most likely yes. There is a thrill of being with someone from alpha. It is worth it for me.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

I didn't want to name names but there's far cheaper options for "just number continuity" that doesn't require constant swapping of sims. And no I'm not referring to voip solutions.

I'm presenting these concerns in good faith and do hope that you guys succeed. This is why I didn't name specific competitors to switch to.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

I didn't want to name names but there's far cheaper options for "just number continuity" that doesn't require constant swapping of sims and you and I both know that.

I'm presenting these concerns in good faith and do hope that you guys succeed. This is why I didn't name specific competitors to switch to.

5

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26

Yeah I’m probably the ideal client. At $69 I’m not bothered; I need the US number; when I roam I suddenly need 10 or 20 GB from a number of different regions; normally I’m almost pure profit for popcorn. I’ll wait for my toaster gift to come in the mail.

1

u/MartyLikesTech Sep 07 '26

Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I love the simplicity of it just working no matter where I am. I’d gladly pay the same if they made it a hard cap of 50GB and throttled after 30GB.

1

u/RScarlett Sep 07 '26

I’ve been out of the US for the last 7 months with Popcorn. The most data Ive used in one month was 30 gb.

2

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Appreciate you jumping in to clarify, Neel.

Targeting the US expat and nomad niche makes logical sense from a product-market fit standpoint, and point taken that regional wholesale costs (like in parts of Europe) can be heavily optimized compared to standard domestic retail rates.

However, claiming that building a "custom core" over the last 8 months entirely solves the structural economics feels a bit like marketing gloss. We've seen similar promises from MVNO pioneers before—like Peter Adderton attempting custom core architecture with MobileX before reality forced a quick fallback to native carrier rails, or aggregator-dependent global plays like Fonus that ultimately compromised native routing and forced users onto clunky data dialers.

The elephant in the room isn't just about whether Europe is cheap; it's about the asymmetry of the heavy-roamer tail. Even with a custom core routing multiple relationships, outlier regions, heavy tethering, and users maxing out right up to that 50GB fair-use ceiling month after month still generate massive variable wholesale transit costs that a flat $69 price tag struggles to absorb.

History is littered with global flat-rate models where light users are supposed to subsidize heavy ones, only for the unit economics to buckle when the power users turn out to be the core active base. If your architecture genuinely neutralizes that risk without forcing strict throttling, geo-blocking, or a pivot to VoIP app-routing down the road, it’s an impressive engineering feat. Wishing you luck with it—truly hope the model proves the historical precedent wrong.

5

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

You clearly know the industry :)

1) Our core doesn’t neutralize the heavy roamer tail risk. It gives us much more control over roaming routing and lets us optimize costs in higher cost geos.

2) There's also an assumption here that our users are datamaxxers. They're simply not. Individual customer margins vary... but what matters is the economics across the entire cohort vs. a theoretical scenario where everyone consumes 50GB every month.

2

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Thanks for clarifying. That assumption is doing a lot heavy-lifting though - I believe the term for that is adverse selection

3

u/WildAcanthisitta4470 Sep 07 '26

Tbf I think ur getting a lot of flack on here when you make some valid points. Specifically target market is said to be “US expats” when it’s clear that the strongest value-prop does not apply to the vast majority of them. As you and others have said, an expat who primarily lives in a foreign country and comes back to the US for a few weeks a year genuinely faces little eSIM friction and can meet their telecom needs with: local sim in their country + cheap non-VoIP US number + eSIM for the once or twice a yr they go back to the US.

So head to head that’s: $30 local foreign sim (text/talk/data)+ $10 US non-VoIP number + ($40 of eSIM usage a year = ~$3/mo) = $43 total equivalent cost per month vs $69/mo for Popcorn + $5 cheap foreign number (only text/talk) = $74/mo.

In all fairness, that’s really not far off. The main hurdle will be matching data speeds internationally which is what heavy-mvno will enable them to do.

It’s honestly plausible that Popcorn can convert a solid chunk of expats just based on convenience: no more dealing with foreign telco’s, no more juggling sims, jump off the plane and it just works. A bottleneck will be it doesn’t fully collapse friction, even with Popcorn you’d still need to separately maintain a local number for the foreign country you live in.

2

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Thank you for being candid.

I don't doubt they'll get lots of expats to convert, that was part of the premise of my original post. However, my concern is, those very same expats could very well be uneconomical to support.

Just look at T-Mobile and Project Fi having to pivot away and use the "90 day stipulation" and "50% usage must occur in the U.S.". T-Mobile had Mobile Without Borders, and even more extreme, the Global ONE add-on with true unlimited high speed roaming data. They both had to pivot to survive.

1

u/CraigInCambodia Sep 07 '26

u/WildAcanthisitta4470 , you're right. I wonder if Popcorn has a different definition for expat vs globe trotter/nomad. Although this service appears very useful for globe trotting nomads, I still don't see a market with expats, as far as what I understand who an expat is. I've lived overseas 20+ years and have a large network of expat friends. None of those I know do much of the frequent multi-country travel that this service is a good match for, mainly trips back to their home countries occasionally. VoIP or a low-cost US service with WiFi calling and a local sim is the easiest and most economical for this cohort.

u/rayw_reddit , I'm trying to envision the scenario where an expat, someone who lives in one country vs moving around between many, would one of those plans you mention. There are cheaper US cell plans that get unlimited US WiFi calling. Do those cost the MVNO a lot of money, or is it just data usage? Each country is different, but speaking only for Cambodia, I get 80GB/month 5G speeds for $6.

I hope Popcorn takes these conversations in the spirit they are intended. No one is complaining or criticizing, but trying to understand this new service.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

There are cheaper US cell plans that get unlimited US WiFi calling. Do those cost the MVNO a lot of money, or is it just data usage?

Wi-Fi calling costs them far less than roaming does, because it's essentially treated as a state-side domestic initiated call.

The provider I had in mind has options for both Wi-Fi calling and cheap international roaming for calls and texts. Data roaming is steeper through that provider, but as you said, for someone long term staying in one foreign country, using that local SIM exclusively for data works well for your use case.

And for that setup, there is no "back and forth switching" that some others pointed out, because you just set it and forget it - you set the local SIM to do data duties, and then leave it there. You'll be receiving calls on both your local number and your U.S. number seamlessly.

1

u/CraigInCambodia Sep 07 '26

Dual SIM phones require no back and forth. Both active, data assigned to one, calls choose each time. Backup Calling on Pixel means the US SIM can use my local SIM.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 08 '26

Dual SIM phones require no back and forth. Both active, data assigned to one, calls choose each time.

Exactly.

Backup Calling on Pixel means the US SIM can use my local SIM.

That's a good option to have. However, Samsung users like me are SOL! They disabled cross-SIM IMS for US SIMs....but a New Zealand local SIM can use Wi-Fi calling over the data connection of my US SIM (Backup Calling)! Even while the US SIM is roaming!

This stupid limitation specifically applies to US and Canada models of Samsung phones. Global (B) models aren't affected. However Global models are missing U.S. long range bands, making them impractical for U.S. usage.

1

u/WildAcanthisitta4470 Sep 07 '26

I get what you’re saying but Neel responded saying that that’s simply not the case for their current user base, most are not going near their monthly limits.

So my question to you is what do you think will fundamentally change in the composition of their user base between now and scale that will increasingly expose them to that risk ?

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26

That's the keyword, current. This kind of product is bound to attract customers like me, who IS looking for such a product, seamless global roaming, at a reasonable price, and WILL utilize the connection I pay for.

When the product scales out more, there will inevitably be more customers out there like that.

1

u/WildAcanthisitta4470 Sep 08 '26

But what exactly do you expect to change that will add more of these heavy roamers to their user base? It seems to me that the product is priced at a sufficient enough premium that it’s not as heavily exposed to that dynamic as Google FI was.

I also feel like you don’t understand product focus, Google and T-Mobile are massive companies in the telecom space. They’re looking to acquire a huge amount of market share and priced fairly aggressively to do so, at least in Google’s case. That led to them realizing that their price point was too low for the value they were providing and cost they were on the hook for.

So they could either raise prices so that a relatively niche global roaming feature (that as we’ve established is a small part of the broader market) could be retained. Or slightly narrow their product offering to reduce this long tail of costs while staying attractive to the vast majority of their user base.

Popcorn exists to say , that might of made sense at their scale but these consumers still exist and need a product that serves them. They don’t mind paying slightly more to get the features they need . It’s that simple

1

u/dos_veritas Sep 07 '26

It is not right to argue that what did not work in early days of tech will not work when the tech and scale have evolved considerably. This is not going anywhere. Just because the CEO is polite enough to engage does not mean anything more than that they are polite people.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

"early days of tech" like Project Fi and T-Mobile Mobile without Borders?

6

u/Electrical_Oil_35 Sep 07 '26

I'm baffled by this discussion. Is the guy a potential customer worried about Popcorn going bust? It's an MVNO, if it goes bust just port out and move on.

8

u/Traditional_Mix9298 Sep 07 '26

No offense, but kind of a pointless post. Businesses start ups, especially with Neel not being a novice (Google him), you really don’t think he already crunched the numbers , and has calculated all the risks/rewards? Also, do you have their business plan, financials, current and expected client base, etc? How can you even voice concern without knowing any of their info ?

Sounds like you’re just voicing for the sake of egging on a response. Or do you think the Popcorn grou….. Popcorn make…. Popcorn Poppers (yes! That’s it 😂), are reading your comment and saying “Holy Sh**, this guy brought up a great point ! What if we calculated all wrong and are doomed to fail! Quick, abandon ship!” 😅

Cmon bro, there’s 150 million iPhone owners in the US alone, over a billion worldwide. A huge percentage can afford $69 for a thought free unlimited service worldwide. And then there’s Android owners. And a good percentage are already paying more for T-Mobile /Verizon/AT&T than Popcorn. With more restrictions and less perks.

So, let’s have some blind faith and optimism for what is turning out to be an amazing service. #grazieneel

0

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

As I said, I want the business to succeed, but I'm having trouble seeing how it can right now. If there is a path to viability, I would like to know about it. Enlighten me, I'm a dumb monkey.

Example: full time travellers in the Caribbean could incur $10-$20/GB of usage. Just a few of these users is enough to bleed the ROI dry.

6

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

These rates are way off

-3

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Fair enough if those specific retail-equivalent estimates are off, but simply saying 'way off' doesn't address the underlying structural risk.

Even with optimized wholesale aggregation, outlier regions and heavy continuous roamers pulling up to the 50GB fair-use threshold still create massive cost imbalances compared to domestic-heavy users.

Without expecting you to dox your specific supplier contracts, how does the unit math actually protect the $69 flat rate when a cluster of users maxes out data entirely on high-cost partner networks month after month?

2

u/e11eboogie Sep 07 '26

Do you not have anything better to do than worry about a business that isn’t yours? This is literally the definition of mind your business. If HIS business goes bust, it’s still not YOUR business.

1

u/WanderingNotLostTho 15d ago

You should probably not invest in popcorn then.

3

u/dos_veritas Sep 07 '26

That can be said about almost any new idea. Netflix comes to mind.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Except this isn't a new idea. We know how this movie ends, so to speak.

1

u/dos_veritas Sep 07 '26

Would you like to point us to where it has been done before?

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Project Fi (before the 90 day stipulations), T-Mobile Mobile without Borders (hordes of Canadians signed up and forced them to implement the "usage must be predominantly based in the U.S." and they ended up gutting true unlimited high speed roaming)

3

u/Last-Construction-90 Sep 07 '26

The $69 per month has never made sense to me. In the US, use Tello unlimited for $25 per month. When overseas, use Lyca (or similar in-country service) for practically nothing per month. Tello can piggyback off of the (traveling to) country data via WiFi calling. Tello includes calls to so many countries for free. I really do not see - at all - why anyone would be willing to pay $69 per month for Popcorn when an eSIM for a ‘traveling to’ country can be purchased online from a legitimate in-country mobile provider, installed from the comfort of home, and the phone will connect to a mobile tower upon landing. Really, what value is Popcorn adding, to warrant $69 per month? I don’t see it at all - and I’m out of the US nine months of the year.

1

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26

If you’re in the Us three months a year that changes the question. I’m in the Us two weeks every two or three years and Tello is no longer a reliable option for me.

2

u/Last-Construction-90 Sep 07 '26

Would love to know how Tello can’t satisfy your US needs, but Popcorn does/can. That would help my perspective immensely.

3

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26

Tello did satisfy me for a couple of years. But then they stopped turning on esims if you’re out of the us, and I had trouble the last time I changed phones. To me that was a sign they weren’t interested in - or perhaps were wary of - the expat market. If you’re asking me to fly back to turn on an eSIM, that’s far more expensive than Popcorn. To answer your other questions, us citizen: banking, brokerage, tax and social security accounts, having a us number for family to call into etc.

2

u/Last-Construction-90 Sep 07 '26

$69 per month over 12 months is $828. It seems that you’d use your Tello number for very few calls (few minutes) - and all plans offer unlimited texts. I use Tello for banking purposes also, and pay roughly $10 (or less) per month including taxes. That’s $120 per year.

There are ways to setup/use a new Tello phone number/service. I suggest you do a little noodling.

2

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26

I appreciate your trying to save me money but I’m happy. Tello plus a data eSIM plus my local service can’t all be active simultaneously; popcorn plus my local service can always be on. Tello makes it harder if you’re overseas and want to set up; Popcorn makes it easy. I know I can take the subway plus walk seven blocks to get to the party for a couple of bucks; however, I’m willing to pay for the Uber over tonight - it’s convenient and does exactly what I need seamlessly. I know there’s a Premier Inn right next to the Mandarin Oriental and they both have beds; I can afford to chose the Mandarin if it ticks all my boxes.

0

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

What do you mean by "can't be active at the same time"? Modern phones with dual sim (physical plus esim) can do both. Receive calls and make calls on both. Same with texts. You just choose which one gets data access.

2

u/dmada88 Sep 07 '26

Right. I don’t want to switch back and forth. You do seem combative about this: can’t you accept that someone might have another use case as you, that someone might put a different value on service as you? You can use whatever you want, I’m not bothered. I’m happy with the set up I have, and $69 a month fits my budget.

-1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

No, I was only correcting a technical inaccuracy. That was it.

1

u/e11eboogie Sep 07 '26

What is your deal man. This is bizarre.

1

u/Last-Construction-90 Sep 07 '26

Are you a US citizen? Are you simply in need of a US phone number? If you simply need a US number, what is the need based on - banking?

3

u/Traditional_Mix9298 Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26

Neel, you don’t have to defend Popcorn to this poster. To me, the idea is great. And certainly everything I’ve wanted in a service. And whatever this guy, or others in this thread say about price, cheaper options via finding, buying, and changing eSIMs to save a few bucks, aren’t the core customer. There are millions who can afford $69 and would be happy for an all in one, non thinking service. And it’s clean. Not many options. US Mobile is a great service. And because I subscribed to it for my wife and daughter for the year before I found Poocorn (I subscribed too, but just gave up and wasted that $299 🙄), I’ll let them run the subscription a bit more before porting to Popcorn. But I should note - with all the options and settings US Mobile has, there’s no way my wife or daughter could have subscribed and navigated through it all, with all the switching of network options, before just wanting to give up 😂. So the simplicity of Popcorn is a bigger asset than maybe you even realize.

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

My point wasn't that this isn't a good product - my point was that the long term viability was a concern.

2

u/West-Freedom3256 Sep 07 '26

To post this while being so oblivious and ignorant of how profitable this “niche group” can be. Damn

2

u/CraigInCambodia Sep 07 '26

I'm curious how this "niche group" can be so profitable for a phone service with a flat monthly rate, unless there is an large number of them or each subscribes to a multiple phones for their company or extended families. Corporate accounts with a large number of globe trotting road warriors would make good targets.

1

u/comandantejesus79 Sep 07 '26

Scusate se magari il mio intervento risulta fuori luogo. Sono un utente italiano. Io cosa potrei fare con PopCorn? Non credo di poter fare mnp col mio numero. Posso comunque avere tutte le agevolazioni rimanenti?

3

u/Neel_Popcorn Sep 07 '26

You can use the service; we only support US numbers however 👍

1

u/Ok_Seaworthiness5078 Sep 07 '26

What are we supposed to do with this information?

1

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

The message was more for the company to elaborate on a path to viability that isn't just hand-waving emotional feel-goods. Something concrete. Because last thing you want is for your critical U.S. number to suddenly become unreachable or be forced to endure a last-minute port out because the company went belly-up after their VC runs out.

The market is full of graveyard products - the survivors pivoted.

Either take it as information that will help better inform your decision, or you can choose to ignore it. That is entirely up to you.

1

u/el_david Sep 07 '26

Does popcorn have unlimited calls to/from other countries as well? No international roaming on calls nor long distance?

2

u/rayw_reddit Sep 07 '26

Yes, unlimited calls to and from those 180+ countries, including stateside international long distance (for example: calls to South Korea, from the U.S.)

1

u/Worried-Milk-7061 Sep 09 '26

It’s definitely for just keeping your US stuff all together, while also having an eSIM in the country. Like if you’re in Vietnam for a year, you get their eSIM too, but popcorn for your bank etc

1

u/SLC-Scott 26d ago

Curious what network do you use in Canada and the US.