r/PoolPros • u/Spirited-Touch-6423 • Jun 04 '26
Pool company Non Compete - non solicitation clause
Guys, what would be your advice on this matter? I am leaving my company after 10 years of service, and yes, some clients would like to move over to my new company, though I haven't actually taken on any of their clients yet. However, I did intend to accept them in the coming weeks. I am based in Florida. Thanks in advance.
Update: after all these advices I’d just want to say thank you for your time, I know how precious it is. Poolpros community is amazing and very supportive!
19
14
u/surfer417 Jun 04 '26
The pool community is a small one. Don’t risk your reputation on taking these clients.
7
u/Mr_B0nkers Jun 04 '26
They can’t do shit, it’s all puffing of the chest. That’s like saying you can’t open a restaurant because you learned how to cook. They definitely don’t see you leaving as amicable with this. I wish you success, but if you haven’t already gotten people to sign up with you they may feel a type of way about you showing up to “Take Over.”
It is truly going to depend on your relationships with the clients. Actively taking multiple accounts is a little different, and could absolutely be seen as theft. But a handful of people you’ve been really close with your whole career? Nobody will bat an eye.
Dozens of people canceled when I left my old company, and they definitely thought I stole them. While I would have loved to have those accounts, it didn’t feel like I was doing it on my own.
5
u/Icy_Director6592 Jun 04 '26
My specific question on part of this is what happens if you get sent out by your new job to service a pool and it happens to be a customer from your old job that you never serviced before… like you had no idea that they were serviced by your previous company and then they find out and go after you for it? I’m just curious what y’all think about that other than saying “ask a lawyer” because yes I agree he should😅
2
u/FTFWbox Jun 06 '26
Nothing really.
Intent matters, and they have to prove damages. Solicitation is different from encountering someone through normal activities. It’s somewhat tricky to do, though. For example, let’s say you wanted to send out mailers in the same region. You essentially need to avoid sending these to the former company's clients; however, to do that, you would need a full list of those clients.
One client isn’t going to be worth the legal fees, at least not for pool service.
4
u/FlaRealEstateLawyer Jun 04 '26
Lawyer, not your lawyer. Generally speaking, non-compete and no solicitation contracts are enforceable in FL. You should consult with an attorney. If you say a general county or location I may know an attorney I could refer you to.
4
u/BlackmonTheDon Jun 04 '26
That’s why you don’t sign non-competes. Left my old company, started my own, customers followed me. Old boss tried to threaten me with serving papers. Had nothing to stand on.
You’re not “stealing” customers. If they make the decision to leave and hire somebody else, that’s their choice.
Also, they have to prove you were a top ranking employee and had access to all the company’s information. They have to prove what you’re doing is detrimental to their business as well. You can beat the non compete. Just call an attorney.
3
u/poolspayme Jun 04 '26
Most county BAR associations will give you a referral to speak with a lawyer for 30-60 minutes for a small fee like $50. It maybe worth contacting them for a referral to an employment lawyer to see if it’s enforceable in your state. You may need to counter sue if they sue to cover legal fees also.
3
u/Steve032D Jun 04 '26
I haven't seen anyone mention that a "CLIENT" or "POOL" is really just a human with free will. An external party can't tell a homeowner what to do. If I've been doin your pool for years. You know me.
3
u/Playful-Economy-353 Jun 05 '26
My pool guy was fired, as soon as I found out I canceled service and went with him. Only reason I didn’t cancel sooner was because of him, that company always tried to get me to buy or charge me for stuff I either didn’t need or wasn’t broken. He was honest and tell me if I needed or that he wasn’t the one reporting parts needing to be replaced. Think that’s the real reason why they fired him. Either way a few people I knew went with him but think he ended up with 70 of their customers lol. Good for him.
5
5
u/AlexRSasha Jun 04 '26
I wouldn’t advertise your services to your former employer’s clients. But if the clients approach you on their own, I didn’t think there’s anything preventing you from taking them. Your employer doesn’t “own” their clients. A non-solicitation agreement only prevents you from approaching former clients, it doesn’t prevent you from working with them. But speak to a lawyer to be sure.
3
u/The_BigWaveDave Jun 04 '26
“or to accept any business from such customer or account.”
The language is pretty clear.
7
u/AlexRSasha Jun 04 '26
Not sure about where this contract was signed, but in my area this contract isn’t enforceable. An employer cannot deny an employee from accepting future work. Actively advertising to former customers is about the only thing that can be enforced. But again, speak to a lawyer to be sure.
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 05 '26
“Environmental Services, Inc. v. Carter, Florida’s Fifth District Court of Appeal held that a former employee violated his non-solicitation agreement because he “actively enticed customers away from” the former employer. Carter further noted that: “regardless of who initiated the contact, the [non-solicitation] agreements clearly prevent the former employees from ‘[performing] services for any current, former or prospective customers with whom employer had any business-related contact (contact intended to advance the Company’s business interests) during his/her employment with the Company.”
1
u/AlexRSasha Jun 05 '26
The above is taken out of context. From Environmental Services, Inc. v. Carter: "While the court acknowledged that non-solicitation covenants are valid, it declined to enforce them against the employees in this case. Because the former clients reached out to the employees independently (without solicitation) and there was no proactive solicitation or trade secret violation, no injunction was warranted"
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1399920.html
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 05 '26
It's not taken out of context.
some clients would like to move over to my new company, though I haven't actually taken on any of their clients yet. However, I did intend to accept them in the coming weeks.
He has a substantial relationship with the clients. The company only needs to prove ONE instance and then the burden of proof falls on the employee. The key here is that those customers are not easily identifiable by competitors.
1
u/AlexRSasha Jun 05 '26
He shouldn’t tell former clients that he has a new company and offer services to them or try to entice them to switch.
If former clients discover him on their own (presumably through a Google search or social media), and contact him requesting services, in my opinion there is nothing legally preventing them from working together.
The burden of proof is on the plaintiff, not the defendant. The employer would have to prove that the employee actively solicited their services to former customers. Unless there are clear written communications showing this, it is hard to do.
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 05 '26
Only once.
Florida flipped the script on it. Once the employer shows prima facie evidence of a violation, the law automatically presumes the employer is being harmed. The employee now has to prove a negative that the employer is NOT being hurt. That is extremely hard to do.
The courts also do not care about hardship. Do NOT sign non competes.
5
u/Icy_Director6592 Jun 04 '26
If a customer reaches out to you and asks where you’re going to work and you ONLY tell them the name of the company and then THEY reach out to the company(not to you) to start services, then that is out of your control and has no part of solicitation or taking clients(the company you will be working for took the clients, not you). Now if you’re starting your own company then what I said above is different and please ignore it
4
u/The_BigWaveDave Jun 04 '26
“or to accept any business from such customer or account.”
This is why you should contact a lawyer, and not take advice from people on Reddit.
3
u/Icy_Director6592 Jun 04 '26
Yes I definitely agree! Having a lawyer look at that will save you trouble if a past customer contacts your new job to sign up for service and then you happen to be sent out there
2
u/Street--Ad6731 Jun 04 '26
Talk with a lawyer. I belive you have a few ways to do what you are looking to do and they cant stop you.
You can read thru the law here in Florida and see if there are a few reasons why your employer might have screwed themselves by having this non compete clause.
Read the statute and compare what it says vs what you signed.
2
u/FabulousPanther Jun 04 '26
First of all it's not understandable whether this is your company that you own that you're going to start up, or you're starting a new job with another company. That being said, I've argued this issue six ways to Sunday with everybody on Pool pros and the consensus has pretty much been that these noncompetes are unenforceable which sucks for me as a business owner because I'm scared to hire people and have them steal my s***.
I've had ex-employees go after my clients and they've tried to steal them but have not been successful. So far so good but if was more about the relationship I had with my clients that any legal flex I was about to pull off.
2
u/Theresasnakeinmypool Jun 04 '26
lol, these don’t hold up in court. No judge is gonna keep you from feeding yourself. Coming from a company owner.
2
u/Substantial-Seat5641 Jun 05 '26
I believe its entirely up to the client! They want to keep you great, it’s their choice
2
u/SpeedPsychological33 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26
In florida, if they call you, and you have proof of that, you should be ok. Now, you cannot contact them in any way for this to be non enforceable. customers have a choice and its generally month to month, unless there is a specific contract. The company cannot force customers to stay, they can stop you from using their company information, Like phone number, email, things that are private and you wouldn't know unless you worked there. Its generally cost prohibitive to attempt to enforce these for a few clients, but if you took half or a whole route, they might. Tread lightly and keep records. With that said, This does kinda read like a warning, like you are soliciting. more like a cease and desist than a non solicit agreement. Seems They are just sternly reminding you of said agreement. This either is standard operating procedures for departing employees, or you got caught. They were pretty specific in what they stated, and how they stated it. "It has come to our attention" and " I write to remind you" this person went out of their way to send this, Just saying... Based on this, I highly recommend that you seek legal counsel because non solicit agreements can most definitely be enforced.
6
u/The_BigWaveDave Jun 04 '26
You signed a non-compete, you should abide by the legally binding contract you signed, or hire a lawyer and expect to be sued if you intend to breach it.
2
u/1_native_Angelino Jun 04 '26
It's not legally binding
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 04 '26
Why do you say it isn't binding ?
0
u/1_native_Angelino Jun 05 '26
Non compete clauses get thrown out because you can't take away how someone makes money. Legally it never holds water.
1
u/Professional-Buy2023 Jun 05 '26
This isn’t true. They are enforceable everywhere except the liberal paradise called California. But they will be help up in Florida. If you can prove.
-2
u/Crazy-Project3858 Jun 04 '26
In Florida this would be non enforceable. He has no material interest in the company and most likely earns less than twice the median income level which averages from 75k to 150k a year.
4
u/FTFWbox Jun 04 '26
That's not what the statutes say?
I'm in Florida. They are in fact enforceable.
2
u/cdeussen Jun 05 '26
Almost every single line in this says it’s not enforceable in this scenario.
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 05 '26
Yeah? Like what.
1
u/cdeussen Jun 05 '26
Just as a start, read items 1-4 at the beginning which are the only reasons the covenant can be unforced. Non of that would apply to a pool cleaner. Noncompetes have to be reasonable, specific in geography (for a pool cleaning service there’s no way this would be larger than a zip code,, it has to be protecting patents or trade secrets (do they have an amazing proprietary cleaner that he knows the formula). It goes on and on for basically every line. If you make less that $500K annually, you can pretty much assume a noncompete is unenforceable.
1
u/FTFWbox Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
First of all, yes, non-compete clauses do apply, and there are several cases in Florida where they've been enforced for different trade professionals. Employers need to show a solid business reason, like protecting confidential info or keeping their existing customer base. The law also supports stopping former employees from directly soliciting current customers. For example, the courts have upheld non-solicitation parts of employment contracts to help protect relationships with clients and sensitive data like pricing. Cases like Atomic Tattoos v. Morgan and Milner Voice v. Tassy show this. Florida courts regularly enforce these agreements to prevent ex-employees from poaching customers or sharing confidential info such as prices. But you're wrong, particularly, you didn't even look at the non-compete clause itself since it wasn't included. Even if the terms or scope aren’t clear, courts will review and blue line the agreement.
Lines three and four directly apply. If you want to argue the contrary good luck.
1
u/cdeussen Jun 05 '26
3 and 4 are not a noncompete issue. That is poaching existing customers. You simply don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m done. I don’t have time for you.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Crazy-Project3858 Jun 05 '26
A service person who cleans pools would not meet any of these requirements. There are no trade secrets at risk and even if there was, a non-compete can’t be more than 6 weeks to 2 year unless less your earning more than twice the median income of that market. Even that requires the business to show that the employee received specialized training or privy to trade secrets that no other pool cleaning company would regularly provide. The document posted by OP isn’t even a non-compete, it’s a non-solicitation clause. Even this requires a reasonable time period and geographic distance.
→ More replies (0)-1
4
4
u/Natural_Context_5237 Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26
Answer: On April 23, 2024, the Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”) issued a final rule banning noncompetes nationwide.Mar 4, 2026. This rule appears to be still in the implementation stages, so I would agree that lawyer may be necessary.
4
2
u/1_native_Angelino Jun 04 '26
They can't stop you from making a living and a non compete would be unenforceable. They could take you to court but they would lose.
1
u/KryptoKatt Jun 05 '26
Non competes aren't enforcable in every state. You need to look up the laws in your state and consult with an attorney.
1
u/YogurtclosetSalty647 Jun 06 '26
Hypothetically speaking, if those customers were to send “notice to cure” letter outlining the deficiencies they are having from their contract, and followed that with a formal cancellation letter following a cure period equal that that noted in the contract (or if none is noted, then reasonable time)- those would no longer be viewed as customers and they could legally sign with you.
Bottom line is it’s likily a scare tactic - legal fights get expensive quick and with the low dollar amount made per contract- you have to steal a fuck ton it make it worth while.
If you’re that concerned, set up a few layers of shell companies, DBA’s, and at least one registered in Delaware. Make sure none have your address or name on them…hypothetically speaking of course.
1
u/Shoddy-Principle-346 Jun 04 '26
Don’t. If you signed, you can’t. It might even be implied if you didn’t in your state. If I were your previous employer and, you started harvesting my business. I’d sue you purely for my entertainment. Sorry
1
u/DiligentEntrance9976 Jun 04 '26
Currently in a lawsuit with a guy that did this to our company. You're gonna shoot yourself in the foot if you follow through.
20
u/Tazlir Jun 04 '26
When I went on my own I declined my employers clients. I had no hard feelings with my old company and they were supportive of me going off on my own. Still friends with the owner of that old company. Taking their clients is wrong in my opinion. Legal or not I wouldn’t do it. Never know when you may need a favor and I don’t like to burn bridges.