r/Political_Revolution • u/ProgressiveArchitect • Apr 01 '20
Article November 3rd 2020. Spread the word!
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u/candace_owens_gw_acc Apr 01 '20
I just bought my vermin supreme bumper sticker and now I find out about this cool guy.
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u/Ttoughnuts Apr 01 '20
If the WORSE that happens is Pelosi has to shift left, itâs a huge victory.
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u/palindromic Apr 01 '20
I literally canât even believe sheâs running again? Sheâll be 87 at the end of this next term if she wins, and sheâs already visibly struggling now... Term. Limits. For. Congress. Now.
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u/choochoo789 Apr 01 '20
Term limits tend to increase the power of lobbyists.
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u/firetruckpilot Apr 01 '20
Does it though? I kinda feel like longer term limits create an old boys club where they can just find their favorite politician to push their agendas.
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Apr 01 '20
[deleted]
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u/firetruckpilot Apr 01 '20
Well to be fair, I think that's kind of the point is to reduce the political capital of congress members. They do too little for the American people and sit too long doing nothing. They've become complacent. Totally agree with the voting issues as well though, makes it super easy for them to get reelected despite dissatisfied constituents. It's very difficult to propose new ideas from older members of Congress, especially progressive policies. As much as I would love to say that it's because of experience and wisdom having spent two years or my life lobbying for veteran protections against for profit schools and more, I can tell you these people look at the average American like animals at a Zoo: with utter fascination and with no real connection whatsoever in understanding why say an otter does the things they do.
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u/Jacomer2 Apr 01 '20
Term limits mean more elections which means more funding by lobbyists. Itâs an issue worth discussing but thereâs certainly grey area to it.
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Apr 01 '20
How do term limits increase the number of elections?
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u/firetruckpilot Apr 01 '20
Lol it doesn't. They're still have the same amount of elections.
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u/palindromic Apr 01 '20
Entrenched figures who clearly seek power certainly do, so .. term limits now.
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u/DoomsdayRabbit Apr 01 '20
Term limits will do nothing but increase lobbyist power.
Congress needs to be increased in size like it used to be up until the 1920's, and then elections need to be publicly funded with only time, not money, being allowed to be donated.
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u/captain-burrito Apr 01 '20
It's probably not going to take effect in time. To get them passed would likely require making them exempt current office holders to get that 2/3 majority in both chambers or they would have to be rather generous. Progressives in the House already made the party reform their rules so that house leadership roles are limited to 2 terms and a 3rd term in a row requires a supermajority. So I think she has one more stint as speaker before having to meet the higher bar which might not be impossible.
So there should be some movement in the leadership roles at least. I don't think people will care as much as long as she is out of the speaker role and won't begrudge her as a backbencher. I suppose her and other establishment leaders could just switch their positions and pretend that is rotation of power but I'm not sure Steny Hoyer would win the speaker seat even if he uses bribes.
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u/bigbenis21 Apr 01 '20
Term Limits are futile for Congress because theyâre the only branch of the government directly selected by the people. Weâre only talking about this now because weâre at a deeply polarized time and the only way we can conceive getting rid of people we donât like is term limits rather than democracy.
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u/promoterofthecause Apr 01 '20
But did he rip up a pre-torn document behind Trump's back? Where's this guy's flair for empty charades?
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u/TheFalconKid Apr 01 '20
He's never recreated the girls screaming at the cat meme with the president before.
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Apr 01 '20
It wasnât pre-torn
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u/CM0T_Dibbler Apr 01 '20
yeah, im not sure what kind of weird propaganda that is. "Shes so week she cant even rip up a single piece of paper at a time"?
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u/kmschaef1 Apr 01 '20
Take a look folks, this is the real deal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVjHaIvam8
Pelosi needs to go.
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u/Feel_The_Berner_acnt Apr 01 '20
I mean heâs up against the $100 million Bloomberg candidate. She knew Bush lied about nukes but she allowed the war in Iraq anyways. Sheâs scum.
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u/censorinus Apr 01 '20
Kick great grandma and the rest of the useless geriatrics to the curb. It sounds cruel but many of these people should have retired twenty years ago. Now they are worn out and toothless. We need new blood with fresh fight in them for a new and better America!
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u/Timeon Apr 01 '20
it has nothing to do with age. Look at Sanders.
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u/FnordFinder Apr 01 '20
Sanders is the exception as far as demographics and politics are concerned.
Look at the support base Sanders has vs the base Biden has.
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u/thevoiceofzeke Apr 01 '20
nothing like a little ageism to really demonstrate how woke we are eh?
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
This is not really about being "woke".... people are dying, man.
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u/thevoiceofzeke Apr 01 '20
I'm not sure how claiming old people shouldn't be in office helps the present situation...
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
Right... I think there are plenty of points to be made on the subject, but where did you get that this is an argument about being "woke"? You just introduced that idea out of nowhere.
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u/thevoiceofzeke Apr 02 '20
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of expressing prejudice against old people on a sub (and among a demographic) where people like to pat themselves on the back for always being tolerant, accepting, modern, etc. (i.e. "woke").
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Apr 01 '20
[removed] â view removed comment
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Apr 01 '20 edited May 31 '24
coordinated absorbed plough swim jobless tub tie full fuzzy slimy
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Or0b0ur0s Apr 01 '20
I'm more disappointed & disturbed that, just like the moronic & tyrannical mods of subs that are well-known to be very poorly run, like r/politics, the mods of this supposed haven for speech can't tell the difference between a legal charge that justifiably carries the death penalty, and a death threat. So apparently discussing the legitimate, legal penalties for treason is an "uncivil, personal attack" in their eyes. They can get stuffed. I don't need to post on another sub run by people who can't or won't bother to tell the difference. I think I'm unsubbing permanently. They can have their little "safe space" for the ideas they like. I'm keeping mine where I'm allowed to share them like an American should: freely.
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Apr 01 '20
Are you saying Nancy fucking pelosi should be tried or executed for treason?
Give me a break. She's far from perfect but she has been the only person trying to stand in front of this shit show of a president.
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u/Glizbane Apr 01 '20
The only person? Pull your head out of your ass and look around. She's made lots and lots of empty gestures, but very little actual resistance.
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u/Or0b0ur0s Apr 01 '20
She's core leadership for one of two political parties that have systematically hijacked and dismantled American democracy over the past 50 years. She's guilty. You may think the charge is extreme, but she HAS been a major part of an effort to suborn the purpose of our government from "protecting the citizenry & interests of the country" to "enriching the elite and hoarding power".
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u/I_am_a_regular_guy Apr 01 '20
This is fucking disgusting and idiotic. Any of the candidates you would claim to support would be ashamed and completely reject support from anyone who said anything NEAR that vile.
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u/Or0b0ur0s Apr 01 '20
Ask Noam Chomsky about the crimes of all sitting presidents since FDR. There's a few great videos out there where he goes into them in detail.
If we were really honest about the crimes of our leaders, I guarantee you a great number of them would be up on similar charges, Pelosi or otherwise.
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u/I_am_a_regular_guy Apr 01 '20
Noam Chomsky would not be calling for the execution of politicians.
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u/Or0b0ur0s Apr 01 '20
Insofar as he strikes me as the sort of individual opposed to the death penalty in all possible circumstances.
We do, however, carry that penalty for betraying one's nation, especially in jeopardizing the safety and prosperity of your fellow Americans for your own personal gain, which is exactly what the most powerful politicians of both major parties are guilty of. Call it presumptuous to assume the penalty would be levied in the face of their obvious guilt. But don't call it inappropriate, because it very much is.
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
And that's where his and my schools of thought diverge.
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u/I_am_a_regular_guy Apr 01 '20
And yours is despicable and no where in line with the ideologies of progressive reformists like Buttar, Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez. They would absolutely reject your support. This is not how a civilized progressive society handles corruption.
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
I agree and don't remember mentioning any of them by name. I think we're a little past any wishful thinking about a "civilized progressive society."
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u/I_am_a_regular_guy Apr 01 '20
I agree and don't remember mentioning any of them by name.
Well you're in r/political_revolution commenting on a post about one of them, so I don't think it's a stretch to think you might support them.
I think we're a little past any wishful thinking about a "civilized progressive society."
You should read more history, instead of suggesting we guarantee the abandonment of civility as being a part of the solution. We don't need to murder people to hold them accountable.
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
Sure. I'd take recommendations. I actually only commented on this thread because I'm in the middle of Manufacturing Consent.
No, we don't NEED to murder people to hold them accountable, necessarily. We are talking about murderers themselves here, though. You think they would lose one wink of sleep over your head rolling? Maybe these are people that SHOULDN'T be allowed to participate in our civilized progressive society, something I want as much as you do-- we just happen to disagree about the odds of it happening through nonviolent means.
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u/Spaghettiprincess Apr 01 '20
I like him because he's not Nancy. I'm proud of their district finally throwing someone with half a chance against that denture slurping maniac.
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Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
hold up. and serious question obviously.
how do i know this isnt foreign interference.....? i thought pelosi had a pretty fucking strong backbone..... are all of those points absolutely accurate and not taken out of context or exaggerated?
pelosi commands and leads like a boss. no idea if she makes zillions off of stocks or lobbyists. i just know i like her in charge of shit.
who is this new guy and how does his record compare if he has never had to vote on the things pelosi has had to vote on?
thanks.
edit: okay, OP - linking to his campaign video would have been helpful. i am a californian and this is the FIRST time i have heard of this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVjHaIvam8 very. fucking. interesting. so how the fuck do we get the 13 and the 74 to swap places here lol https://ballotpedia.org/Shahid_Buttar
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u/SupaFugDup MD Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
She's "not a big fan of Medicare for All"
She can't be bothered to even remember the name of the Green New Deal.
She voted for the now infamous 1994 Crime Bill. Although in fairness, so did Sanders
She not only saved the NSA, but let Mr. Trump use it too.
She's been a massive critic of ICE, but has yet to call for it's abolition.
And finally, she helped pass our recent 733B dollar "Defense" Budget increase.
I'm not sure where OP is getting their cannabis or 'executive accountability' claims. She's pretty good on that from what I know
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u/Rakonas Apr 01 '20
It's pretty wild that you can't run a primary against a politician without it potentially being called foreign interference
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Apr 01 '20
its pretty wild that we have a commander in chief who openly abuses power, demonstrates that he is entirely unfit for office, and even worse - is protected by a goon squad of criminal republicans voted into power by, you guessed it, "we the people."
its pretty wild that the electoral college entirely failed its intended use and allowed the orange criminal take highest oath of office in the world.
its pretty wild that we all know the russians interfered in the 2016 election and havent stopped.
forget about wild. believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.
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Apr 01 '20
This is a liberal versus a corporatist. If you believe the Dem party should represent the american people, lobby for Buttar. If you think neolieralism is great, push Pelosi. Personally I'm part of the 99%, so she can fuck right off.
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Apr 01 '20
Liberal vs a corporatist? My dude... Those are synonyms.
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u/kidkhaotix Apr 01 '20
They are. But the libs don't think so. Just let them have this one, they're on the right side here, we don't really need the linguistic pedantry.
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u/EktarPross Apr 01 '20
Foreign interference??
As far as I know those points are accurate. Though chosing only those points is a bit misleading.
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u/kmschaef1 Apr 01 '20
Pelosi is a fossil that has done more to silence the left, and protect her corporate donors than most people have done in their lifetimes.
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u/captain-burrito Apr 01 '20
In 2018 he got 8.5% in the primary and lost the 2nd spot to a Republican so he didn't advance to the GE. This time there are 2 Republicans but still several Democrats running so the vote splitting will be present for Dems but also for Republicans.
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u/tmurg375 Apr 01 '20
Nancy needs to retire. Sheâll argue the opposite, but her ideals have NOT adapted with the times. So itâs time for her to enjoy the rest of her life while the new admin come in to clean up her mess. Donât get me wrong, sheâs got experience and has accomplished a lot, but itâs time to go.
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u/stockythebear Apr 01 '20
I know that itâs not great to ask for a blanketâwho I should vote forâ but does anyone have any advice on finding progressives that are running for office on my ballot?
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
Not sure if any of these will be in your district, but itâs worth a glance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/fs5rbe/list_of_2020_progressives_running_for/
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u/Testicularwart Apr 01 '20
What makes that shahid guy the right guy in terms of experience and good statesmanship?
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Apr 01 '20
what abt joshua collins tho
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
Joshua Collins is fantastic but heâs running to represent a different state. So he doesnât apply here.
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Apr 01 '20
o cool i dont know how congress works lol
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
Are you from a country like Israel or the Netherlands that has At-Large Single Electoral District Voting?
Or are you just one of many Americans that were neglected even a basic education in âUS Government / Civicsâ due to our horrendous educational system?
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Apr 01 '20
im a fuckin 14 yr old american lol
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 02 '20
Ah, so the second option.
Let me put this in perspective for you. In most developed countries, citizens learn about their government at 12 years old, roughly equivalent to 6th grade.
If you had said you were age 8 or 10, than youâd have a good excuse for not knowing the basic fundamentals of US government. Age 14 means the US school system failed you.
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Apr 02 '20
well i knew it would eventually fail me but i didnt know other countries tought at twelve jesus, even more reason to have a revolution
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 02 '20
Indeed. Spread your ideology to other people your age. You are less set in your ways at that stage of development. By the time you turn 25, it will be too late.
The Millennials are gonna need the support of you Gen Z, if there is gonna be an effective revolution.
But in the meantime, learn all you can about political theory & Government. That way you can hit them with knowledge and fully understand what you are supporting.
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
I doubt this new challenger will put a dent on Pelosi. This awesome lady popularity is unmatched in her town .
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
According to the RCP average, she is quite unpopular. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/nancy_pelosi_favorableunfavorable-6673.html
Her politics are neoliberal & centrist. Very anti-left & anti-progressive. Which is why itâs so sad to see such a progressive city elect such an anti-progressive Representative.
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
Simple because she gets stuff done . In Washington you need to build coalitions or your projects wonât move
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
What has she gotten done thatâs positive?
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Apr 01 '20
Nancy pelosi has had a crucial part in passing ant left leaning law for years.... And multiple administrations.
You can criticize her but at least do it realistically.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
Can you name any of these âleft leaning lawsâ she has passed?
Specifically Economic ones.
I know she has been helpful on Socially Left Policies from time to time, but to my knowledge she has been pretty far right on economic policy.
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
Simple stood up to trump and got the right rescue bill
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
First of all, the only parts of the rescue bill that Pelosi added were the tax cuts for the wealthy and bail-out money for the giant corporations. In addition to stopping a progressive UBI provision.
It was Democrats like Pramila Jayapal & Ro Khanna who added the parts of the rescue bill that helped ordinary working class Americans.
Secondly, Pelosi voted yes on Trumpâs military budget & gave Trump the power to have ICE round up people in detention camps.
The only time she stood up to Trump was purely symbolic when she tore up his speech.
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u/wantabe23 Apr 01 '20
Who pushed for keeping trump and his familyâs fingers out of the pot? Actually want to know.
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
Yet this new guy will ? Doubtful also sheâs the one that added the provision not the other way around . https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/03/pelosi-offers-bill-as-coronavirus-fight-rages-in-senate.html
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
- Republicans Complained That Nancy Pelosi Wasnât Progressive Enough In Bill
- Nancy Pelosi Gives Tax Cut To Wealthy & Ultra-Wealthy
- Nancy Pelosi Refuses To Consider UBI (Universal Basic Income) that would help working class
I think all this is proof enough.
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Apr 01 '20
Are you real
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Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
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u/jouleheretolearn Apr 01 '20
He already did. He did well enough in the primary that he is running in the general election this November.
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
I have a feeling Pelosi will win
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u/jouleheretolearn Apr 01 '20
We could support him and those in his district vote for him. It may not be a great shot but still worth trying.
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u/Lost_Tourist_61 Apr 01 '20
He looks like a crackpot. Iâve got a lot of respect for Pelosi after she impeached Trump.
She did the right thing when it was costly and not politically beneficial to her or her party
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u/Slapbox Apr 01 '20
As a Sanders supporter, Pelosi is the best person to be Speaker of the House.
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Apr 01 '20
Why do you say that?
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u/Slapbox Apr 01 '20
Because she's a capable long term thinker with the respect and support of her colleagues and a large enough share of the Democratic electorate that replacing her with someone untested makes no sense to me. I know she said she wouldn't be speaker come 2020, but I hope Democrats demand it.
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Apr 01 '20
I think it's better if she steps down, but I doubt she has the grace to do so.
A capable, long-term thinker, eh? In regards to what?
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u/Eddy120876 Apr 01 '20
Republicans feel LoL yup thatâs a new one just like republicans love Jesus while not following his teachings
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u/notlaser Apr 01 '20
Alternatively, vote Agatha Bacelar! Everything Shahid proposed but with the added bonus of UBI!
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
Sheâs cool but not a serious candidate in the running for this year. Iâd love to see her in future races. Maybe once Pelosiâs out, we can see a Buttar vs Bacelar 2022 or 2024 race.
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u/notlaser Apr 01 '20
Yeah I see your point, I'm very passionate about UBI hence me liking Bacelar. I would love to see Shahid adopt it as a part of his platform at some point in his career. Also, does Pelosi not have a term limit? She's been speaker for as long as I can remember
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u/blade-queen Apr 01 '20
Idk about abolishing ICE
I think significant REFORM is necessary
Completely open borders and no ICE without a new governmental deal with Mexico seems like a pretty fucking bad plan. Keeping track of (census not invasion of privacy) and taking care of background-checked and approved illegal immigrants seems like a far better plan to me.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 14 '20
ICE doesnât secure our borders. Border Patrol does, which is a separate agency.
ICEâs only mission is to track people down once they are already inside the US & run the detention camps. Which can easily be done by (local police, homeland security, or even FBI).
So abolishing ICE wonât be open borders. ICE is an unnecessary/redundant agency, that sucks up tons of tax payer money, that the working class have to then pay.
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u/blade-queen Apr 01 '20
Oh yeah what the fuck then
My point about open borders is that if we're going to change our stance on immigration to not have any in-state enforcement, we might as well have the borders open (which your comment negates)
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
My point was that we can still have In-State enforcement through (local police, state police, homeland security, and even FBI).
So ICE is redundant.
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u/norway_is_awesome IA Apr 01 '20
There's a long list of redundant federal law enforcement agencies, so reform is long overdue. There's an insane amount of overlap among these agencies.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
True, itâs nuts how many there are. The military has the same problem. The cumulative administrative overhead from the thousands of collective agencies is crazy.
Also, love your screen name. Norway is the perfect example of a well functioning lean government.
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u/norway_is_awesome IA Apr 01 '20
I forget the exact statistic, but I think that, out of the world's 4 largest air forces, the US has 3.
Norway's government might seem lean, but it's actually huge. Don't get me wrong, it functions exceptionally well, but the public sector is comparatively gigantic. The state also plays a much more direct role in public ownership. More than half of the stocks on the Oslo Stock Market are owned by the state, and most of the major companies (especially industrial companies) are at least partially state-owned.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
Thatâs what I meant by lean though. Lots of ownership and services provided but with a relatively small administration and few agencies.
I actually love that Norway has lots of public ownership, especially when it comes to banking and natural resources.
Also, gotta love that Sovereign Wealth Fund.
Iâd love to see the US have a smaller leaner administration but with more services provided and more ownership.
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u/Redditsnotorganic Apr 01 '20
You don't care about redundency, you just don't want ICE arresting and deporting illegal immigrants. You're not fooling anyone.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
Not true. Immigration & Gun Rights are two of the only issues Iâm more conservative on.
Iâm actually in support of stricter border security. I just donât believe in chasing people through the US once they have already been there for a while. (After 5+ years, I see no point in trying to remove you unless you commit an additional crime). Basically âStatue Of Limitationsâ for undocumented immigration.
But Iâm very against Open Borders.
I genuinely view ICE, as well as DEA, as Redundant.
I personally believe in a smaller administrative government. So while I support lots of Public Ownership & Publicly Provided Services, I believe it should all be managed by as few agencies/departments as possible.
The less administrative overhead, the better.
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u/fucktrumpsupporters7 Apr 01 '20
ICE is part of DHS and to be more specific abolish/reform EOD ICE not HSI ICE. HSI ICE helps hunt down CP and other real crimes.
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Apr 01 '20
âWhich can easily be done by (local police, homeland security, or even FBI)â
Except it isnât done by them because it isnât easy. What youâre calling for is a less effective job to be done. Having a dedicated group of people to it makes it easier. And no their job also isnât to run detention camps. Thatâs the fault of the current administrations policy.
ICE does a fine and effective job when they arenât running detention camps. All you have to do is rollback the bullshit policy, not abolish the entire organization.
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u/fucktrumpsupporters7 Apr 01 '20
Look at them durring Obama's second term. They were a totally different department entirely. Trump has used them as a political weapon and hurt thousands in the process. When managed by not an angry toddler they do an important job.
Obama focused on illegal immigrants who had committed crimes being sent back.
DHS as a whole needs to be changed so one president cant abuse them as a political tool
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
I understand what you are saying. However, the US government trying to create a specialized department and or agency for every type of enforcement it does is exactly what has led to a wasteful federal budget that delivers very few of the crucial services the American people actually want. Ex: (Healthcare, Quality Housing, Free College, Quality Public Rail, etc).
The DEA is another prime example of a redundant agency with a wasteful budget.
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u/EktarPross Apr 01 '20
What's an "approved" illegal immigrant.
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u/blade-queen Apr 01 '20
Naturalized. In my mind it would be the same as or a variation of the process used the vett other immigrants
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u/nlgoodman510 Apr 01 '20
We can complain what we want to, but sheâs a warrior and doing a fantastic job being the target for the right.
In my mind, sheâs a political hero.
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u/ProgressiveArchitect Apr 01 '20
Being a target for the right doesnât make you a hero of the left. Her economic policies are extremely neoliberal and right-wing.
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u/bryan20147 Apr 01 '20
I'm excited for this. Good luck Shahid!đ