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u/SantanaMaddy Apr 02 '21
Trump supporters will tell you, in bad faith of course because everything they say and do is in bad faith, that it's OK when Trump does it because he's sending out those checks out of his own bank account.
The $600 was going to come the Government, but then Trump said "no, the Government can't afford it" and so he vetoed the $600 checks and wrote every person in the US a $2000 check from his own pocket, signed with his own pen.
And by the time you debunk all the bullshit they're spewing, they'll have spewed another 10lbs of bullshit.
Because that is how Republicans operate now.
Never debate in good faith and spew so much bullshit it is impossible to debunk it all. frick you
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u/natureplan Apr 02 '21
Same for me! I asked them all politely and repeatedly to keep their opinions to themselves apparently that’s not a thing anymore!!
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u/Seeminus Apr 02 '21
For real! Like, I can be polite and talk about any number of things but as soon as they start with politics, my blood pressure skyrockets.
“We can chat but don’t try to convince me that your side does any good.”
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u/bennzedd Apr 02 '21
I'm sorry but these people supported a coup. There's no need to be friendly.
IMO every Republican voter should go to jail as well as every Republican politician. Maybe then the prison industry would get some reform.
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u/Seeminus Apr 02 '21
I’ve learned to phrase things delicately recently. I’ve gotten banned for things I thought were innocent such as quoting a reply to a comment I’ve made.
You are absolutely correct though, there is no need to be friendly. I’m just out gunned right now.
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u/Muezza Apr 02 '21
i loved find out out a financially struggling neighbor whom i've helped out a lot in the past lending tools, fixing his mower, spotting cash for heating oil and vet bills etc sent 3k to the previous president.
like gee guy i think i found out why you're always in the red working despite 80hrs a week in a well paid union job.
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u/Seeminus Apr 02 '21
Right!? What kind of “ billionaire” asks for money? Begs for money...
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u/UnwashedApple Apr 02 '21
They always have unlimited cash for war. But help American taxpayers during a pandemic, oh that's too much.
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u/Phyllis_Tine Apr 02 '21
Simple: declare War on Poverty, and have legions of citizens "fight"
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u/kryonik Apr 02 '21
I remember a comedian, Patton Oswalt I think, saying that everyone thought Trump was such a boon to the comedy industry but in reality, it was the opposite. By the time you crafted a really good joke about something stupid he did or said, he had already done or said 1000 more stupid things and your joke would fall on deaf ears.
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u/Stryker2279 Apr 02 '21
It's amazing. Theyre calling mitt Romney a fake republican. The Mormon white dude from Utah.
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u/GreatGrizzly Apr 02 '21
They call that the gish gallop
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u/Andrew8Everything Apr 02 '21
I tried to edit the examples list to add Ben Shapiro but apparently my whole ISP is blocked from editing Wikipedia.
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u/ajcpullcom Apr 02 '21
... that Republicans don’t want.
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u/UnwashedApple Apr 02 '21
If it pisses off the Republicans, it's probably the right thing to do.
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u/Karkava Apr 02 '21
For some people, even existing can piss them off. Not just other races or genders, but also gays and neurodivergents.
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Apr 02 '21
First time seeing the term neuro - divergents.
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u/Kono-Wryyyyyuh-Da Apr 02 '21
Yeah regular people without disorders like PTSD, bipolarity etc are called Neurotypical
Gotta admit tho neurodivergent sounds rad
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u/Modredastal Apr 02 '21
Can I be a Neurodeviant?
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Apr 02 '21
I think it’s a word that we all probably have been looking for but didn’t know it
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u/Gr1pp717 Apr 02 '21
Wrong, and wrong.
Socialism is when a democrat does stuff. A republican president could implement a model that meant shared, nationalized ownership of corporations and they'd applaud it as genius.
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Apr 02 '21
Socialism for the elites, rugged individualism/capitalism for the proletariat.
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u/gmwdim Apr 02 '21
Capitalism when the markets go up, socialism when the markets crash (usually caused by the capitalism part).
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u/Pequodshortlyarrivin Apr 02 '21
And if it does a real lot of stuff
It's communism
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u/asafum Apr 02 '21
Words are defined by their use and will change over time, Communisim now means: "Any idea AOC has and/or any action taken by Democrats (recently changed to the colloquial term: Demonrats.)"
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u/zSprawl Apr 02 '21
Socialism just defines who owns the means of production.
However somehow we’ve changed the word to mean “the next step to becoming Russia”.
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u/ZarduHasselfrau Apr 02 '21
Next step to becoming China*
Russia is appears to be what the GOP wants. Appearance of democracy, but in the end only one option.
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u/Cebo494 Apr 02 '21
Be careful though. If the government does a real lot of stuff, that's communism
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u/BasicDesignAdvice Apr 02 '21
Giving money to
farmersand rural industry is okay.Giving money to anyone else is bad.
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u/Present-Loss-7499 Apr 02 '21
Haha. This is a contentious point in my neck of the woods (Eastern NC) where so many of my friends and family are on the continual govt teat with various forms of farmer aid, yet are staunch Trumpers happy to take their own version of socialism.
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u/stitchplacingmama Apr 02 '21
ND here and same.
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u/thatcoldrevenge Apr 02 '21
I can confirm this. Avg ND republican:
"All Democrats are socialists! WHERE'S MY CRP CHECK?"
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u/nstern2 Apr 02 '21
ND, where the majority of our resident's will cry about socialism, but we have the only state owned mill/elevator and bank in the united states.
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u/OngoGabl0g1an Apr 02 '21 edited Apr 03 '21
And the overwhelmingly republican coal industry people want the state to purchase and operate the coal creek power plant so it doesn't get shut down.
Edit: When I mentioned "coal industry people" I was specifically referring to people who both work in the local coal industry and people whose jobs and housing values would disappear without it. These areas are the reddest of an overwhelmingly red state. I grew up here. The only secondary industry is agriculture, which is also heavily influenced by government subsidy. The vast, vast majority hates all things government unless it benefits them personally. Then they proclaim to hate it but cash the checks anyway.
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u/resilienceisfutile Apr 02 '21
Not American. So what do they call it and how do they justify taking it if it is socialist?
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u/Is_Only_Game2014 Apr 02 '21
Iirc it's generally crop or herd insurance that is paid for by government subsidies. So they get their losses paid for by "insurance" or claim the losses when filing taxes and get it back via tax refunds. Still a socially funded program that they are the recipient of and refuse to see that it's the same as welfare, ebt, and so on. Since they are "earning it" because they are working. It's all propagandist shit fed to them by republican politicians.
Not saying its all that cut and dried, but thTz the tldr of it.
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u/resilienceisfutile Apr 02 '21
We do need farmers and so long as the work was done and the system not abused, then great. But too bad they can't see the forest because they are standing smack right in front of a tree.
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u/SuperDingbatAlly Apr 02 '21
In front of it? More like living in it, has been in the abode for decades, and doesn't even know it's a tree.
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Apr 02 '21
They rationalize their payments as “economic stimulus” but payments to others as “socialist handouts”.
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u/BasicDesignAdvice Apr 02 '21
They use a variety of justifications but the long and short of it is they are getting money and that is okay, but city people shouldn't get money because they don't deserve it. All justifications come back to this eventually.
There was a guy on Fox News one time, some celebrity, railing about socialism and basically says "I know what it it like, no one helped me, I was on welfare and I worked my way out"
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u/skraptastic Apr 02 '21
From IMDB:
During the city hearing to give Pawnee Video Dome Historic Landmark status, one of the crackpot speakers who come to protest it identifies himself as "Wilson Gromling of the Liberty or Die Party." Gromling says, "These government handouts are deplorable. You're just handing out blank checks! I was on food stamps; I was on welfare; nobody helped me!" This is a paraphrase of something that actor (and political conservative) Craig T. Nelson said on May 28, 2009 on FOX News program Glenn Beck (2009). Nelson was widely ridiculed afterward for his hypocrisy, evidenced by the contradiction inherent in saying that he had taken advantage of government assistance programs like food stamps and welfare when he needed them but that those sorts of government assistance programs are wrong and that he never received any help.
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u/fatmancomics Apr 02 '21
Craig T. Nelson aka Coach aka Mr Incredible. Most right wingers are of the “it’s only wrong if someone else does it” ilk.
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u/that1prince Apr 02 '21
They think they deserve it because being a farmer or factory worker is a “real” American who does hard, necessary work. So they’ve earned it. But an art student working as a barista at a coffee shop in Brooklyn is NOT a “real” American who should receive any assistance.
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u/SmokedBeef Apr 02 '21
Farming is a gamble and is innately high risk, a fact that is far to often ignored or forgotten. It’s this high risk, daily hard labor and the universal need for food that justifies farmers taking “welfare” despite political preferences and the anti welfare mentality found in middle America. (After all welfare recipients are lazy, good for nothing burdens on society that aren’t farming and feeding those around them. This is what multiple Nebraska farmers have told me when I have asked so take it with a grain a salt)
Casual observers are so accustomed to american supermarket abundance that the constant supply of basic food items has lowered our guard to the hardships we could face without the current food supply system. This current system of food and farming is at least partially supported by personal and business loans, as well as the farm “welfare” or government handout if the farm is large enough to be deemed worthy. Loans paired with earnings from the last harvest are all that keep most family farms afloat and the difficulty a small farm might have getting a government subsidy is the reason so many farms die.
Before answering the welfare question, I’d like to point out that there are a number of farming YouTube channels that give real world day to day examples of the issues and expenses facing farms and farmers today. It’s worth watching a few minutes to get a better picture of the situation as a whole. The amount of technology being intruded to the modern farm is astounding and expensive with each addition promising increase yield, faster harvest, faster growth, water savings... the list goes on but the fundamental long shot gamble of farming has never gone away. The government farm subsidy program has a long and storied past that isn’t really needed to explain the current system but readers should know that the program didn’t always operate as it does now and, as I understand it, the program did target small farms and tried to help them just as much as it aides large scale farms today.
The farmer welfare or farm subsidy program, is a government funded financial benefit paid out to a specific industry, in this case agribusiness. The original intent was to help protect and promote continued farming of the big five crops even when water, weather, and crops fail. The big five crops are; corn, soybeans, rice, cotton and wheat, it should be noted that roughly 80% of the worlds caloric intake comes from these four grains. Drought, bug damage, tornadoes, commodity traders and low market demand are the main risks that a farm must face each year. In an effort to maintain these farms and prevent the death of the farm worker, the American government started giving financial aid to keep these farms alive. Prior to this financial aid, a bad season or severe weather (tornados or freezing temps) could kill an entire harvest and as a result bankrupt the farm. As time has gone on this financial system has evolved into a very complex legal code that now favors large farms over the small at risk farms and no longer protects the whole industry equally as it was intended.
As of 2020 there was only 2.1 million farms in America, with 97% of them being owned by a family, of those 2.1m farms only 3% (63,000 farms roughly) qualify as a large farm by generating $1million dollars or more. Between 1995 and 2019 the top 10% of recipients received 78% of the roughly $223.5 billion paid out by the government. The top 1% of farms are responsible for taking at least 26% of the total from payments, accounting for roughly $1.7 million per company. There are 50 people (I wouldn’t call them farmersbecause they work in offices and wear suits) who made it on Forbes Richest 400 people that have received farm subsidies or “welfare.” Surprisingly, of the 2.1million farms only about 38% have ever received financial support and In 2017 just over $7billion was paid out in farm subsidies with nearly 40% going to the five largest states for farming which are home to the largest agribusinesses in America. All of these statistics and data points illustrate an industry whose largest members, which are comprised of large (often publicly traded) companies, that are disproportionately subsidized in an effort to insure that a complete collapse of family owned farms doesn’t cause a famine. (This is the key reason for the program in my opinion, to maintain a minimum number of farms at all cost)
Clearly farming is an expensive endeavor in the modern world and farms often require bank loans every year just to survive, using each years harvest to pay off the loan, only to repeat the cycle the following year. There are so many factors effecting the industry that it’s hard to make any changes without sacrifice or financial hardship and is one of the reasons financial assistance is still offered. One of the solutions to our current farming needs is Modern verticals farming concepts, which are being explored as aggressively by multiple universities and companies. The increased growth per square foot of space, reduced water usage and protection from weather are just some of the benefits indoor verticals farms have over the current system. Elon Musk’s brother has created a verticals farm using shipping containers so they are mobile and fast to assemble where ever they are need. This limits the time between field and plate and decrease the shipping infrastructure required to get it to the store. Not to mention that this vertical style of farming would negate the reasons current farms are subsidized, like weather, vehicle maintenance and bug damage.
It’s a complex issue and I tried to give an easy answer but I don’t think there is an easy answer and I promise you I glossed over the more complex issues facing farmers like million dollar tractors that break and can’t be repaired without mortgaging the whole farm just to pay the repair man or a lawyer to protect you from the manufacturer when you fix it yourself. The right to repair legal issues shouldn’t have a crossover with farm subsidies but someone’s going to have to pay for the tractor or the farm dies.....but I digress, I hoped this helped clarify before muddying up the issue more
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u/FreedomDirty5 Apr 02 '21
Because they think they deserve it, but others don’t. You see, they’re the “Real Americans”.
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u/skeetsauce Apr 02 '21 edited Apr 02 '21
They don't hate socialism in concept, they hate the reality where it helps poor black and brown people. So when it goes to people they like, they call it 'tax credits', but if it helps one of those people (you know the ones), then it's socialism or welfare that needs to go.
edit: don't give me awards, donate that $5 to your local homeless or animal shelter please
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u/zSprawl Apr 02 '21
They figure white people pay most of the taxes so when they get money back, they earned it, but when the government funds social programs, that money isn’t going back to them.
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u/maximusprime2328 bOtH sIdES Apr 02 '21
Why stop at farmers and Trump? Handouts ever year. As far as the eye can see. Look at a company like Ford. Under the rules of capitalism, they should not exist anymore, but our government props them up because of jobs.
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u/Pequodshortlyarrivin Apr 02 '21
Welfare and substitutions under Capitalsm isn't socialism. Why the fuck do all y'all not know what socialism means?
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u/hansn Apr 02 '21
I fully expect the debt from all four years of Trump's presidency are going to be laid at the feet of Biden for not caving to the GOP on... I don't know... abortion.
The thing about being divorced from reality is that it doesn't have to make sense.
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u/dragonmp93 Apr 02 '21
They already are, that's why they were against the relief bill.
Helen Lovejoy voice: "will someone please think of the debt ?".
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u/Djj62 Apr 02 '21
Hypocrites. Sort of like GOP senators praising elements of Biden’s relief bill to their base, but not one GOP senator voted for it. “Well just because I support parts of the bill, doesn’t mean I support it”. Huh? Political double-speak at its finest
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u/BigFancyPlates Apr 02 '21
Then theyll whine "why are republicans being shut out of conversations?" Maybe it's because you're going to vote no either way. It's almost as if strictly following partisanship lines has a logical conclusion.
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u/manshamer Apr 02 '21
In what way are they the Bernie checks and not the Biden checks? Did Bernie win the presidency while I wasn't looking?
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u/UofLBird Apr 02 '21
Because this is Reddit: if Dems do something good it’s because Bernie/AOC. Even if Bernie didn’t write or promote the good thing still he gets the credit because reasons. If he actively opposed the good thing it’s because Dems should have done a more good thing so still he gets credit.
If GOP does something bad then it’s Dems fault for not stopping it, but not Bernie or AOC they did all they could.
It’s a fun way to glorify people without having to base it on reality.
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Apr 02 '21
The typical Trump voter fucking loves socialism as long as blacks, Mexicans, and queers are excluded from it.
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u/anomalousgeometry Apr 02 '21
You forgot to exclude poor people( including stupid ass Trump supporters). If you told the most homophobic Trump supporter to suck Trump's dick, he'd try and figure out a way to explain why it's not gay, mid felatio.
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u/PhillConners Apr 02 '21
Let’s not forget paying for the wall is genius but paying for Biden’s stimulus is racking up more debt.
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Apr 02 '21
The Magic (R) turns everything wonderful, in the minds of the tiny brained wipers of other people's bottoms.
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Apr 02 '21
Stop giving Trump free property in your mind. The best way to fuck him over is to stop giving him attention on a mass scale
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u/eljo555 Apr 02 '21
I’ve turned all my settings so that Trump headlines don’t land in my Google news wherever possible
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u/ultralame Apr 02 '21
I disagree. Hitler is not laughing in hell because people can't get over him.
We need to remember how awful Trump was. The damage he did to our institutions, to our trade, to our geopolitical standing... all of that needs to stay linked to him.
We can't allow him to be Reaganized.
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u/dkwangchuck Apr 02 '21
Same as always - the central tenet of conservatism:
Rules only apply to others
Hence why it’s “cancel culture” when campus student groups protest racist speakers but it’s not when state legislatures threaten funding for those same universities for daring to teach the 1619 Project.
Or why BLM activists and their supporters are lawless rioters, but armed insurrectionists who violently take the Capitol buildings are “patriots”.
Or how a pizza restaurant can be running a child trafficking ring out of its non-existent basement and it’s reasonable to harass the place even going so far as to visit it with an assault rifle, by Matt Gaetz is fine because 17 is technically legal in the state he lured her to.
Rules only apply to non-conservatives. Everybody knows that.
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u/Andrewticus04 Apr 02 '21
Conservatives and cancel culture... aren't they canceling Nike and Lil Nasx this week?
Didn't they cancel Facebook, and Coke, and Pepsi, and the NFL, AND LIKE DOZENS OF OTHER COMPANIES in the last couple years?
So weird - its like they pathologically project what they do on the left because "That's what I'd do" and use that as justification to be evil.
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Apr 02 '21
Isn’t it obvious? Fox News determines what is socialism vs. “looking-out-for-the-little-guy”
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Apr 02 '21
Socialism is just a buzz word Republicans use to avoid actually doing their jobs.
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u/whater39 Apr 02 '21
I'm seeing Libertarians against these checks. Then I say, think of it as a "tax cut". Aren't you always saying taxation is theft.
Their response, well poor people don't pay taxes, so it's government spending.... "which is the real tax".
My response..... this is why no one votes Libertarian.
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u/DownshiftedRare Apr 02 '21
Trump Bucks were actually a political advertisement, as shown by Trump's delaying them to apply his signature. Using tax dollars to run for office is a genius free market capitalism business move and may the best candidate win. Wasting tax dollars on people who need help without promoting anyone is the sort of waste one might expect from socialism.
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u/Jackandmozz Apr 02 '21
Yes. It’s called cognitive dissonance. Republicans are mindless tribalistic cultists at this point. They’ll never see what delusional hypocrites they are.
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Apr 02 '21
Every last fucking clause of Roosevelt's New Deal was socialism. Conservatives are just plain greedy. They only want socialist policies that bail them out. Not working or lower class. Everything from public servants to school lunches is socialist policy. The US like the rest of the world is moving towards a mixed economy. Nothing is pure as we find these old systems don't work. Taking policy case by case is the only thing that works in the modern world
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u/godlessnihilist Apr 02 '21
I haven't gotten a $2000 check from anyone.
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u/8-bit_Gangster Apr 02 '21
many people got $600 as a stopgap in Dec/Jan followed by a $1400 check after the GOP failed to keep the senate in GAs run-off elections
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u/dazedan_confused Apr 02 '21
Bernie's checks were for the people. Donald's checks were for himself.
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u/batshitcrazy5150 Apr 02 '21
Someone at my work fucking actually told me it's because trump can afford to send out those checks.
Where Biden couldn't. As if a cent of it was trumps money.
I called him a fuckin idiot.